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StrawberryJam
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Pug
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One does not have to be going to a particular church to be saved. For example, Catholics think a Methodist can be saved.well i was kind of asking a roundabout question. i understand that for one to be saved they must change the way they live and how they act towards people i.e (helping the homeless volunteering seeking to convert the lost ect ect) i was really wondering if to be truely saved does a person have to be catholic persay or just have meant the sinners prayer and changed the way they live and start doing good work.
and about unifying the church so we are one body as it says in ephesians
the only way i could see it happening is if all parties could put aside their differences and come together again. it most likely wont happen so its just wishful thinking
im hoping by posting this i havent offended if so i truely am sorry
In fact, concerning your reference to Ephesians, where St. Paul talks about the Jews and the Gentiles and how those who were far off have now been brought near, no longer strangers, etc. It is not like Catholics think of Lutherans or whichever group as strangers. We consider them brothers. Other Christians are “in Christ”, part of his body. They must be, in fact, to be saved. If they separate themselves from him, that is the problem. But we think their baptism made them a member of his body, even if it happened somewhere besides a Catholic building.And you did not offend, don’t worry.
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jeffery_craft
Guest
i thankee kindly for sorting this out altho i do have a question. what about prayer and confessionOne does not have to be going to a particular church to be saved. For example, Catholics think a Methodist can be saved.
And you did not offend, don’t worry.
again no oiffence is intended with this
on prayer why do catholics recite prayers like hail mary ect…ect when in st. Matthew 6:6 -7
it says
“But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.”
also i thought jesus was the intercessor between us and god why would i need to go to a priest to intercede for me to jesus then jesus to god?
again i mean no disrespect im just trying to understand
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ivebeenshown
Guest
Note that Jesus said do not use vain repetitions – not that we can’t use repetition at all! The Rosary is a meditative, contemplative prayer. We do not “think that we will be heard for our much speaking”, we are pondering on the mysteries of God and his Word to achieve a greater spiritual union with our Savior and our fellow members of the Church.
The Scripture says that “there is one mediator between God and men, Christ.” He is the mediator of the new covenant. You have to consider: what does mediator mean in this context? What exactly is he mediating? He mediated the new covenant between us and God so that we would have the grace of forgiveness – his is the only mediator in the sense that only his sacrifice merited grace from God for mankind. We accept this grace through the sacrament of reconciliation, which is confession, and other sacraments like baptism and the Eucharist. They are gifts.
If you use the term ‘mediator’ too broadly, then how would any man come to faith by the preaching of another? The preacher would be a ‘middle man’ between God and the hearer. Or why would people get baptized by other people?
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AlltheRoses
Guest
Christian unity is a noble goal that we can all pray for and work for.
As to your question, the idea of what is “enough” and only wanting to do “enough” is, with all due respect, rather foreign to me as a Christian. I think it is a mistake for Christians to see ourselves as people who only do enough or the minimum required for salvation as if life is a college course we want to get a C in, but don’t care about putting in the extra effort for an A or a B.
God is always pushing us to grow in our faith, and we should always be trying to grow closer to Him. We cannot claim to truly love Him and serve Him above all others, if we are only concerned with doing “enough” or checking off boxes in some cosmic checklist. We should always be trying to demonstrate our love for Him through our thoughts, words, and actions. I wouldn’t presume to know what is the minimum required for salvation, but I would say that, by and large, if we die seeking that close relationship with God, we can have a sure hope of spending eternity with our Maker and our Savior.
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spockrates
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Well, I’m not a Catholic, yet–but I’m considering becoming one. When I’ve asked the same question of Catholics, here they tell me, “No, you don’t have to be Catholic to be saved, but it certainly helps! Why take a chance?”well i was kind of asking a roundabout question. i understand that for one to be saved they must change the way they live and how they act towards people i.e (helping the homeless volunteering seeking to convert the lost ect ect) i was really wondering if to be truely saved does a person have to be catholic persay or just have meant the sinners prayer and changed the way they live and start doing good work.
and about unifying the church so we are one body as it says in ephesians
the only way i could see it happening is if all parties could put aside their differences and come together again. it most likely wont happen so its just wishful thinking
im hoping by posting this i havent offended if so i truely am sorry
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Godfollower
Guest
There are a lot of Christians who teach that you just have to accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior to achieve salvation. But the Bible teaches differently – merely acknowledeging Jesus as Lord is not enough:
Matthew 7:21-23.
Jesus flatly told us what’s going to happen on judgment day, and it is not going to be a case of “Everyone who accepted Me as personal lord and savior gets in; everyone else doesn’t.”
Matthew 25:31-46 (note that the goats on His left, just like the sheep on His right, call Him “Lord”).
Every time we ignore the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, and so on, we put another nail in our eternal coffin. Every time we laugh at a joke about convicts dropping the soap in prison; every time we walk past a homeless man begging for a meal; every time we interfere with charitable or governmental efforts to help the poor; every time we think “Get a job!” when we hear about the burdens the poor face; every time we exult over a perceived enemy’s failure; and every time we place our own political leanings over the teachings of the Church; we close the door to salvation a little more. Even if we go to church every Sunday, read the Bible every day, and pray constantly, Jesus demands more of us.
So what if you wear your faith on your sleeve, answer altar calls, and are well-known in your church? So what if you go to daily Mass, confession twice a week, and Bible study every Wednesday? So what if you go out onto the internet holding forth all day long about why people ought to believe in Jesus?
Luke 17:9-10.
We are all sinners, and nothing we have done – nothing, not even welcoming Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior – merits the grace of eternal life. Only Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross gives us even a small chance of eternal salvation, and Jesus has made clear that we have a lot to do if we want to have even that.
I hope to be saved. I fear that I won’t be. I am always falling short of the commandments our Lord has given us, and I am beholden to sin because of my fallen human nature. I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling (Phillippians 2:12), and I place my hope in the infinite mercy of God.
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Pug
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The larger passage in Matthew (6:1-21) talks about at least two things. We aren’t supposed to make a big show of giving charity and praying and stuff so that people see us and become impressed with us. That is not why we give charity and pray to God, to impress men. We do these things for other reasons, like to do as the Lord wants us to do. Also that passage talks about how to pray. The disciples are to pray by words like the Our Father (what you probably call the Lord’s Prayer). To pray like that is not meaningless repetition, even if I pray that same prayer every morning. I form myself (well, really God forms me) into a better person both by praying and by thinking upon the words. They show me how to think properly about how God is our father and to forgive others and such. I’m pretty dense. I benefit from frequent reminders.
I also find the Hail Mary prayer helpful to direct my mind to thinking on the great gift God has given us by the Incarnation (the word became flesh and dwelt among us type stuff). This is because the words there come from two places. First where the angel Gabriel starts speaking to Mary and tells her about how the Holy Spirit will overshadow her and the name of the child will be Jesus and second where Elizabeth greets Mary after Mary has gone to visit her once Mary is pregnant. It brackets the Incarnation. It pulls that whole section of Luke chapter 1 to mind and with it the Incarnation to mind. The more I can remember the Incarnation, the better. This keeps my mind on the things that God has done for us and his love for us.
You may have mentioned the “hail mary” specifically because of intercession. One Christian often prays for another Christian or for a national leader or whomever. Or, one Christian asks another Christian to pray for such and such. This is intercession/mediation. But it offers no infringement to Christ’s mediation. Mary is a Christian who can pray for me. She is a very special one, though, because she is the one who said “yes” when Gabriel came and told her about God’s plans.
This has gotten too long, sorry, and I still haven’t answered about priests!
Either someone else will answer or I’ll come back to it.
po18guy
Well-known member
Your question is God’s question. Yet, as our Lord said (Matthew 16:24, Luke 9:23), “If a man would follow me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, then come, follow me”. Divisions within and separations from the originally united Church have all occurred because of the influenece of one’s ego on their thought processes. I have decided to deny myself (my ego - my preferences) as much as I can and take up my cross.well i was kind of asking a roundabout question. i understand that for one to be saved they must change the way they live and how they act towards people i.e (helping the homeless volunteering seeking to convert the lost ect ect) i was really wondering if to be truely saved does a person have to be catholic persay or just have meant the sinners prayer and changed the way they live and start doing good work.
and about unifying the church so we are one body as it says in ephesians
the only way i could see it happening is if all parties could put aside their differences and come together again. it most likely wont happen so its just wishful thinking
im hoping by posting this i havent offended if so i truely am sorry
By the way, did you know that the official name of the Catholic Church is “The Church of Christ”? Pretty uniting, if you ask me.
Your question comes from a pure heart.
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chypmonk
Guest
Sorry to jump on you but all Christians are not part of the Church. As we say in the creed the Church is one! One in doctrine and sacraments and government.
The problem with just accepting Jesus and not mess with doctrine is two fold.
- What is your criteria for what MUST be believed? I mean Mormons believe they re Christians too and So do Jehovah Witnesses…etc…
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Pax
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jeffery craft in Christ,
Christians should in fact have no differences at all. The unity that we should have is well described in Jesus prayer for unity in John 17. Read that chapter carefully and prayerfully and you will see that our unity is to be just like the unity that Jesus has with the Father. The Father and Jesus do not differ on anything and they are as one. So also should we be as part of the body of Christ. Unfortunately, disunity is more the rule in the Christian world today than is unity.
We cannot simply drop our differences and unite on the things that we agree upon. To do so would be to eliminate many important doctrines and beliefs simply because not all Christians happen to share them. Simply because a Christian group fails to recognize something as important or true that other Christian groups accept is no reason for the latter to dump the truth in favor of unity with another group that lacks the full truth on the matter.
Is accepting Jesus as your personal savior and that he died for your sins enough? Well, take a look around in scripture to see if you can find that answered in the affirmative. Frankly, I don’t think you’ll find anything that remotely resembles that idea. Moreover, see all of the things scripture says that go beyond that understanding and you’ll have your answer well girded in truth. Pay particular attention to what Jesus says in John 12:46-50 where he says:
Notice the importance that Jesus places on all of his “sayings.” We must not only accept Jesus as our personal savior. We must recognize and accept Jesus as Lord. In doing so, we accept and believe all that Jesus said and taught. Christians cannot pick and choose among these. Jesus is the head of a kingdom. His kingship makes his sayings non-negotiable. We, as Christians, cannot for example have disagreements on Baptism, the Eucharist, sin, priesthood, etc. The unity you rightly seek cannot be a reductionist approach. We must share the fullness of truth in Jesus to have the unity that he shares with the Father. We must be one, just as Jesus and the Father are one.
God bless and welcome to CAF.
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Pug
Guest
I’ve finally got some time to write and finish answering. It is God whom we have offended, and also God is God, so he gets to set up the way we need to follow, even if to us it seems like we wouldn’t have done it that way. Are you familiar with the passage in John where Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit on the disciples and tells them John 20:23 *If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. *Jesus wasn’t doing nothing there. He was specially giving them the Holy Spirit and telling them that he is sending them as the Father sent him. They were to do something specific, namely, forgive or retain sins.
It is for this reason that Catholics go to the sacrament of reconciliation. We are cooperating with how Jesus set things up. But to make sure this doesn’t confuse things with your very first question on this thread, God does not require a person who doesn’t know about this sacrament to go to this sacrament. A Protestant can receive forgiveness too. Just repent and turn to God out of love. Actually Catholics can do this as well and be forgiven, but we also go to confession after doing that.
po18guy
Well-known member
Jesus is our Mediator between us and God. Intercessors are simply those who pray for us.
As to forgiveness, the Church has the power to forgive in the person of Christ. Paul wrote of this:
2 Ccorinthians 2:10
King James Version (KJV)
10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
As well, James says that we are to confess our sins to one another:
James 5:16
King James Version (KJV)
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
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jochoa
Guest
Another excellent question, my friend! Here is a concept to consider:
Jesus Christ is God. God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is inside each one of us, as well as the unholy spirit. Therefore, when we are acting in full oneness with the Spirit of God, we are one with His Holy Spirit.
Just as when we are acting out of oneness with the Spirit of God, we are not one with His Holy Spirit, and are therefore one with the unholy spirit. Basically, when we are sinning, we are acting in oneness with the unholy spirit. So…if you are acting in oneness with the unholy spirit, you should seek a holier spirit than yourself to confess to for proper counseling. Well by the authority of the Holy Spirit (the Pope), the priest has had several years of training, education and understanding of responsibility to offer Penance and Absolution which will be of proper spiritual growth. And when the priest enters confessionals, it is his responsibility to ensure he is one with the Holy Spirit as to ensure that those who seek counsel receive Holy counsel.
Thoughts?
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