A step toward war

  • Thread starter Thread starter OneSheep
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Because the USA once had a monopoly on nuclear weapons … for several years. The US could have nuked the USSR and China, but chose not to.

During this time period, the USSR was actively working to destabilize many countries in the world: eastern Europe, for example. And Italy. And France. And there was a civil war in Greece. And the Soviets blockaded Berlin. And in 1950, North Korea invaded South Korea and very nearly captured the whole Korean peninsula.

So, the UK did not trust the United States to come to its aid in the event of a Soviet attack in Europe. So, the Brits designed and built their own nuclear weapons systems.

France did not trust the United States, either. So they expelled the U.S. and NATO from France and built their own nuclear force of land-based bombers, land-based missiles, and submarine based missiles. AND aircraft carriers, which “may” have had nuclear bombs on board.

The former Soviet Republics “inherited” nuclear weapons after breakup of the Soviet Union. But they didn’t want them and got rid of them as fast as they could.

China has threatened war over Taiwan. And went to war over small islands such as Quemoy and Matsu. And invaded Vietnam.

But the United States has applied an effective deterrent threat.

Iran is a separate issue. The current government doesn’t care what happens to Iran; they want ONLY to destroy Israel and the United States. If there is Armageddon, then the regime in Iran believes that the 12th Imam will emerge.

And with respect to the parallel thread to this one; about Russia making threats against eastern European countries that host anti-ballistic-missile components: if Iran fired an ICBM against the United States, that missile or those missiles would pass over or within the defensive radar arcs based in Poland and other countries in eastern Europe.

So, you need to ask: whose side is Russia on, if they want to shut down defensive radars arrayed against Iranian ICBM launches against the United States.
Russia believes that the anti-ballistice defense system is directed against them and is ready to take countermeasures. As far as your claim about China invading Vietnam, I thought I read something about the USA invading Vietnam and causing a whole lot of damage there, such as dropping napalm on innocent children and setting them on fire. There were pictures of this circulated widely. I don’t see the justification for such atrocities.
 
In the same sense, no nation would have had any business telling the US that IT was wrong to develop the uses of nuclear power, peaceful or military. .
I don;t see that. Since so many innocent Japanese children were killed and maimed for life by the nuclear bombs that the USA dropped on Japan, I don’t see why Japan would not have the right to object to the slaughter of its children.
 
I don;t see that. Since so many innocent Japanese children were killed and maimed for life by the nuclear bombs that the USA dropped on Japan, I don’t see why Japan would not have the right to object to the slaughter of its children.
How did that happen?

Was it just a nice sunny Sunday morning and we, for absolutely no reason, dropped a couple of nukes on them?

Or was it the culmination of the 1932 attacks by Japan on China that expanded into conquest that covered a large percentage of Asia [from Burma to Indonesia to the Philippines to Manchuria] through a surprise attack on Hawaii in 1941 without even a declaration of war and ended up in 1945 with the U.S. being forced to deploy more and more powerful weapons?

Or did the United States have special squadrons of stealth airplanes with special electronics whose sole purpose was to search for and burn children?
 
Russia believes that the anti-ballistice defense system is directed against them and is ready to take countermeasures. As far as your claim about China invading Vietnam, I thought I read something about the USA invading Vietnam and causing a whole lot of damage there, such as dropping napalm on innocent children and setting them on fire. There were pictures of this circulated widely. I don’t see the justification for such atrocities.
An anti-ballistic defense radar detection system is defensive.

Has absolutely no offensive capability.

If you think a radar is offensive, please explain why.

Why should the United States NOT defend itself against incoming ICBM’s?
 
Good morning, all,

As long as Iran funds and supplies organizations which want to immolate the Jews or push them into the sea, then I see Iran as an active threat to Israel.

Iran backs Syria and the Hamas in Gaza with funds and supplies. That’s why I see Iran as an active threat to Israel.

God loves all of you, lurkers, too,
Don
 
How did that happen?

Was it just a nice sunny Sunday morning and we, for absolutely no reason, dropped a couple of nukes on them?

Or was it the culmination of the 1932 attacks by Japan on China that expanded into conquest that covered a large percentage of Asia [from Burma to Indonesia to the Philippines to Manchuria] through a surprise attack on Hawaii in 1941 without even a declaration of war and ended up in 1945 with the U.S. being forced to deploy more and more powerful weapons?

Or did the United States have special squadrons of stealth airplanes with special electronics whose sole purpose was to search for and burn children?
Yes. The atomic bomb is indiscriminate in its lethal horror and kills men, women and children. This is something that was well known and yet still, the Americans decided to use it.
 
Yes. The atomic bomb is indiscriminate in its lethal horror and kills men, women and children. This is something that was well known and yet still, the Americans decided to use it.
Good evening, louis,

Of course we did.

The Japanese at that time had fanatical soldiers and citizens. There were a lot of home industries supporting their war effort, by ordinary citizens. The two A-bombs ended the war.
If the war had not been ended by those two bombs on those two cities, millions more would have died during an invasion.

God loves you,
Don
 
Good morning, all,

As long as Iran funds and supplies organizations which want to immolate the Jews or push them into the sea, then I see Iran as an active threat to Israel.

Iran backs Syria and the Hamas in Gaza with funds and supplies. That’s why I see Iran as an active threat to Israel.

God loves all of you, lurkers, too,
Don
By that criterion, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia should be seen in that light, too. In terms of numbers of dollars and numbers of militants funded and supplied, they probably surpass Iran. al-Qaeda, the Afghan Taliban, the Pakistani Taliban, and the Haqqani Network have uttered hostile statements against Israel as well as against the west. Israel should be wanting to bomb them, too, but they don’t talk that way.

Is it any coincidence that these two are also US allies, even though they treat the US like dirt?
 
The text of the bill is here:
govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1905

As you can see, there is no section 601, subsection c and d which are the disputed sections. They either were removed in committee or never existed in the bill’s final form.

Bottom line is that the matter is made mute.
Well, it sounds like our prayers worked, perhaps with a little help from some letters to congressmen!!! A reason for celebration, even if it is a guarded one!

All the back and forth about what Ahmedinijad (sp?) said or didn’t say, or the fairness of nukes, the accusations and so forth, are all part of a typical dialogue about the region, but it really goes nowhere unless we pray for reconciliation and forgiveness, though it doesn’t make for interesting banter. So those of you who are praying, thanks, and I’ll keep working on it too (along with continued letters to my representatives).

I think that the Iranian issue will be a big part of political campaigns until the next election, because it is a fundraising item, as I pointed out in this thread.

However, if we continue to push the Kingdom agenda, call for forgiveness, reconciliation, acknowledgement and resolution of the aspects of justice on both sides of the conflict (Iran et al vs Israel et al) we can help guide history toward nonviolence in the region, and around the world, and I sincerely believe that is the vision Jesus has for us.

Wouldn’t it be cool if such a foreign policy became just as much part of the “Catholic Vote” as our stance on unborn children and poverty?

Wouldn’t it be amazing for a politician to call for reconciliation with our enemies rather than aggressive posture? You reap what you sow, right?
 
**So did Iran’s president call for Israel to be wiped off the map? It certainly seems so. **.
This is phrased in a hyped, emotional manner. I believe that many people in Iran and some Jews in the USA have called for a more democratic Israel or Palestine which would have a more even handed treatment of people who are not Jewish. Did the USA wipe Iraq off the map when it changed the regime from Sadam Hussein to the present situation? Yes, it did wipe the Iraq of Saddam Hussein off the map. Also, the USA wiped the imperial government of Japan off the map and replaced it with a more democratic government. Why was it all right for the USA to wipe the government headed by Saddam Hussein off the map?
 
Good evening, louis,

Of course we did.

The Japanese at that time had fanatical soldiers and citizens. There were a lot of home industries supporting their war effort, by ordinary citizens. The two A-bombs ended the war.
If the war had not been ended by those two bombs on those two cities, millions more would have died during an invasion.

God loves you,
Don
And does God love the young children of Japan? If so, what right did the USA have to murder thousands of innocent Japanese children, who God loves, by dropping an atomic bomb on them?
 
And does God love the young children of Japan? If so, what right did the USA have to murder thousands of innocent Japanese children, who God loves, by dropping an atomic bomb on them?
It is called war.

People die.
 
It is called war.

People die.
It is an unjust and immoral war when one side drops an atomic bomb on a city and it results in indiscriminate casualties of innocent children and other civilians. My personal opinion is that it is wrong to murder children for the purpose of bringing about an end to a war.
 
It is an unjust and immoral war when one side drops an atomic bomb on a city and it results in indiscriminate casualties of innocent children and other civilians. My personal opinion is that it is wrong to murder children for the purpose of bringing about an end to a war.
I was taught that to bomb indiscriminately - to not distinguish between civilians and military was immoral. The fire bombing of both Tokyo and Dresden were examples of that. Both were conventional bombing campaigns. In Tokyo, tens of thousands died of suffocation because the conflagration sucked all of the oxygen out of the air. In Dresden, kids were were wearing costumes because it was Mardi Gras and they were flammable.

I don’t know what to say about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The bombs didn’t distinguish between combatant and non combatant. In Japan, even many of the civilians - women and elderly - were being trained in hand to hand combat and booby trap making in preperation for an expected land invasion. The casualties of a land invasion are scary to imagine. After the bombing of Hiroshima, the military govt. asked their experts, if it was indeed a nuclear bomb, and if so, how far was Japan from getting one. That does not suggest surrender. Still, did the allies need an unconditional surrender? Was there any alternative to the bombing considering the military govt. of Japan up until the end? I don’t know. I would suggest reading the book A Song For Nagasaki about a physician named Takahashi Nagai for an account of the bomb’s effects and an account of the perspective of a Japanese Catholic.

amazon.com/Song-Nagasaki-Paul-Glynn/dp/0802804764

Ishii
 
Well, it sounds like our prayers worked, perhaps with a little help from some letters to congressmen!!! A reason for celebration, even if it is a guarded one!

All the back and forth about what Ahmedinijad (sp?) said or didn’t say, or the fairness of nukes, the accusations and so forth, are all part of a typical dialogue about the region, but it really goes nowhere unless we pray for reconciliation and forgiveness, though it doesn’t make for interesting banter. So those of you who are praying, thanks, and I’ll keep working on it too (along with continued letters to my representatives).

I think that the Iranian issue will be a big part of political campaigns until the next election, because it is a fundraising item, as I pointed out in this thread.

However, if we continue to push the Kingdom agenda, call for forgiveness, reconciliation, acknowledgement and resolution of the aspects of justice on both sides of the conflict (Iran et al vs Israel et al) we can help guide history toward nonviolence in the region, and around the world, and I sincerely believe that is the vision Jesus has for us.

Wouldn’t it be cool if such a foreign policy became just as much part of the “Catholic Vote” as our stance on unborn children and poverty?

Wouldn’t it be amazing for a politician to call for reconciliation with our enemies rather than aggressive posture? You reap what you sow, right?
Keep in mind that during the “Cold War”, not only did the Holy Father pray, but he also smuggled money into Poland for “Solidarity” … and he also was shot.
 
Every President and member of Congress who votes to commit troops into harm’s way should be required by law to have their closest eligible relative to be committed as well. It is immoral to commit the kids and treasure of another generation to be spent in some far off place under ambiguous circumstances with no end game only to find that we must leave and watch the tide of enemies refill the vacuum. When will we learn? Doesn’t seem that we ever will. Soon, we won’t have the money to blow our nose much less project power at will all over the globe.
 
interesting discussion… I am writing from Jerusalem so find this of interest.

Politically, it seems to me that the bottom line is this:

Israel does not threaten Iran’s destruction in any way. Israel is not interested at all in a conflict with Iran.

On the other hand, Iran’s president has repeatedly declared his desire and intention to bring an end to the Jewish state, while simultaneously racing after nukes.

It seems to me that as Catholics we have a double reason to support Israel: first theologically (touching upon the virtue of faith), and politically (touching upon the virtue of justice).

I have expanded upon these ideas in the article Israel between Past, Present and Future

Comments welcome!

Ariel
Catholics for Israel
 
On the other hand, Iran’s president has repeatedly declared his desire and intention to bring an end to the Jewish state,…
By “bringing and end to the Jewish state”, doesn’t he mean that he wants a more democratic Israel or Palestine which will give equal rights to Palestinians and Jews?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top