A stumbling block to my returning to Rome

  • Thread starter Thread starter NJC89
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

NJC89

Guest
Hi all, i am currently an Orthodox Christian within the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia. I was born and raised Catholic, but was Baptised and Chrismated in the Greek Orthodox church about 18 months ago. I left Catholicism for many reasons, most notably though it lacked the mysticism and traditions of theosis and hesychasm that i had found in the East.

So i was baptised, and spent the last 18 months as a Byzantine Chanter at a Greek Orthodox Monastery near my home, where my spiritual father is the Abbott, a monk whom spent 15 odd years on Mount Athos at Simonos Petra, and who’s own spiritual father is the living Saint (and will definitely be canonised one day) Elder Aimillianos, who is renowned as one of the greatest Elders of our times, and who experienced the Uncreated Light.

So far, so good. However, despite some advancements in my own Spiritual life, i have also been frustrated by the ethno-phyletism, the lack of fervor or interest in Evangelism to non-Greeks, the suspicion of anything Western (English language, Western Saints, etc). It feels as though in order for me to become Orthodox, i need to forsake my own heritage, and become Greek. And, unfortunately, there are no Mission parishes for converts like me in my city.

So, i have been wondering what to do, where i will find peace. As some of you may know from a previous thread i made i have been blown away by the writings of Vladimir Soloviev, who speaks to me directly as an Orthodox Christian, and it has forced to re-consider my decision to become Orthodox, and forced me to re-consider the Papacy, and the role of the Byzantine Empire in the Middle Ages. I have even attended a few Latin Masses at a traditional parish near my house and have found a community that is both welcoming and growing incredibly fast (their church that was abandoned when the Bishop offered it to them for a Latin Mass community, has been restored and is now too small to house this growing community), and also lot’s of young people my own age (in their 20’s).

My problems remain many, however. If i were to return to the Catholic Church, i could probably do some mental gymnastics and grudgingly accept some of the more bizarre (as i see it) Catholic developments like the Sacred Heart and Immaculate Conception, and my stance on the Pope has softened somewhat. I could maybe even learn to live with the unleavened Eucharist (maybe! Although real bread (Body)for the Eucharist mixed with Wine (blood) will be sorely missed).

What i will struggle with however is the spiritual life. I’ll go on record and say that Catholic spirituality (what’s left of it) is pedestrian and elementary compared to the Orthodox East, who have retained the tradition of Eldership, hesychasm, the Jesus prayer, and the path to the direct experience of God through Theosis (aka the Way of a Pilgrim, The Ladder of Divine Ascent, the Philokalia).

To be continued…
 
I know i could still use these prayers and read these books as a Catholic but the point is that in the Orthodox Church the spiritual life is undertaken under complete obedience to an Elder, and i was blessed to have one of the most sought after Elders in Australia 10minutes from my house.

While the Catholic Church may be more comfortable to me as a Western culturally, and have intellectual integrity, i fear my Spiritual life will suffer without an experienced Elder, a general of spiritual warfare, to guide me.

For example, my memory of Confession in the Catholic church is that one confesses one’s sins, the Priest gives a penance of some arbitrary number of Hail Mary’s and then your absolved and that’s it. In the Orthodox Church the emphasis is less on sins as acts (although that is important) but more on your heart and your thoughts, the internal struggle for holiness. You explain your thoughts to your Elder, and he interprets through his experience and wisdom your thoughts, what is from God, and what is a temptation from the Tempter, and how to control these thoughts and overcome your Passion’s. I fear this will be lost if i return to the Catholic Church, with it’s dry rationalism (scholasticism) and legalism.

If i am wrong, i would love to hear why.

Thank you for reading and allowing me to get these fears off my chest.

God bless
Nick.
 
You will find the same liturgy, spirituality, and theology in the Eastern Catholic churches as in the corresponding orthodox churches.

You might look particularly at the Melkites, who cling most strongly to Orthodoxy while keeping communion with rome.

hawk
 
Hi, thanks for the suggestion, but i am not interested in joining another ethnic parish, even if this one accepts the Papacy. The point is that i miss Roman Liturgy, latin, and Catholic high culture. But i don’t miss the lack of well developed spiritual life.
 
Why can’t you have both? You can have the Roman liturgy while still holding many of the theological ideas of the Eastern Catholics. I don’t know how that would work since I don’t know much about those Eastern theological concepts but you should look into it.
 
"Behold this Heart, which has loved men so much, that it has
spared nothing, even to exhausting & consuming itself, to testify to them of its love!
 
NJC89 said:
Hi, thanks for the suggestion, but i am not interested in joining another ethnic parish, even if this one accepts the Papacy. The point is that i miss Roman Liturgy, latin, and Catholic high culture. But i don’t miss the lack of well developed spiritual life.
Click to expand...
In that case take a look at the Church Formerly Known as Ruthenian. I think w’ere called “The Sui Juris Metropolia of Pittsburgh”–the most de-ethnicized (err, is that a word? 🙂 ) group, which are my local parish.

Or, for the Roman culture Latin, a FSSP parish in the RCC.

hawk
 
Thanks mate, as i said in the post i have already found a church. I am not looking for any more, Eastern or not. My question’s relate to the spiritual life, and lack of a spiritual father in the Catholic church, whether Eastern or Western.
 
It seems as if my post wasn’t clear enough. As i said in the post, this isn’t likely an option as i won’t have a Spiritual Father to guide me. Obedience is the most important aspect of the spiritual life, and one can’t take on the Tempter without an experienced guide to help you.

This is the meat and potatoes of the questions i am asking.
 
Yes, that is the dilemma. I can pray the Jesus Prayer of course, but which Catholic priest is going to be able to guide me? Already i have had incredible experiences of the power of the Jesus prayer, and i know that it is a prayer that is not be said lightly.
 
You seem to desire an intense spiritual life with a spiritual director. You seem to get over the Papacy issue but struggle with the Sacred Heart and Immaculate Conception.

In my opinion, you can still have an intense spiritual life in the Catholic Church. You can choose your spiritual director, which can be done. though most Catholics do not do this. As for Marian doctrine, this is often not translated into practice, meaning it is an option for a Catholic.

About an intense committed spiritual life, you can look for groups with alike spirituality, and there are many to choose from.

I would not think it is a problem for you to revert except for the Confession, which seems to be in simpler form as compared to the one you have in the Orthodox Church.

God bless.
 
I think you might be over thinking the spirituality, obedience, guidance thing.
Some times Christianity is just finding God in the mundane and keep on keeping on with loving God in one’s neighbour waiting on Providence.
 
Why do you need mysticism?

Why not become a Byzantine Catholic?
 
Ok, question…were you ever baptized Catholic or was the Orthodox baptism your only one? (I know some Orthodox jurisdictions re baptize anyone). The reason I say this is b/c if you were baptized as an infant in the Latin Church then according to Canon Law, you are still a Latin Catholic…if the only baptism you had was the Orthodox one, then you are Greek Catholic (and that’s a SMALL minority in the world). At any rate, I understand about having a spiritual guide. The best option would be to seek out an Eastern Catholic parish and go from there. They tend to be smaller which makes it a tad easier for the priest to fulfill that spiritual role.
 
  1. I don’t need “mysticism” i need to experience God and be obedient to His will. The Orthodox Church provides a path toward that end, the Catholic Church as far as i can see, does not.
  2. I have already answered that question.
 
I was baptised Catholic as a child, but i opted for re-Baptism in the Orthodox Church as the Catholic Baptism of my youth was not Baptism by full immersion.

It seems as if the only suggestions anyone can make is “become Byzantine Catholic” when i have stated numerous times that i WANT to be in the Latin Rite and have found a Latin Rite, Latin Mass parish that i could be join. I don’t know how much more clearer i can make this?

How bad is it that when i ask for a spiritual guide in the Catholic church the only answers anyone can give me is to go East?
 
I agree, it is a sad commentary on the spirtuality of the Latin Church and how instead of having smaller parishes, they tend to grow into these huge parishes. (of course this is just my experience where I live).

So, yes, then technically you are a Latin Catholic. Perhaps try to find a small Latin Church in your area…as I said, you stand a better chance at finding a spiritual guide in a smaller church.
 
NJC89 said:
I was baptised Catholic as a child, but i opted for re-Baptism in the Orthodox Church as the Catholic Baptism of my youth was not Baptism by full immersion.

It seems as if the only suggestions anyone can make is “become Byzantine Catholic” when i have stated numerous times that i WANT to be in the Latin Rite and have found a Latin Rite, Latin Mass parish that i could be join. I don’t know how much more clearer i can make this?

How bad is it that when i ask for a spiritual guide in the Catholic church the only answers anyone can give me is to go East?
Click to expand...
Rueben_J offered good advise.

I’ll add, if there is a Catholic monastery available to you, seek out spiritual direction there.
 
If you want a spiritual guide I’m sure you find one. The quality might vary though. I have found that the priests who are part of the FSSP who celebrate the Latin Mass are top quality and are excellent spiritual advisers. Maybe check them out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top