A Tale of Two Eucharists

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Well I’ve looked at the first three pages of this thread and the last few pages…I guess what I have to say is that you definitely need to look at more than the bible.

If you didn’t know the bible wasn’t put together untill around 400AD.

On this website they have a few articles on the eucharist (maybe you’ve looked at them? I dont know) that examine what the early church fathers had to say about the eucharist.
You can find them here:

catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp
catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp
catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp
catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp

Have you ever head of the miracles of the eucharist??

Clergy who have doubted the real presence of the eucharist just like yourself have been shown the truth in some pretty amazing miracles.

If not I would suggest that you google it.
 
jdungan7070 said:
Well I’ve looked at the first three pages of this thread and the last few pages…I guess what I have to say is that you definitely need to look at more than the bible.

If you didn’t know the bible wasn’t put together untill around 400AD.

On this website they have a few articles on the eucharist (maybe you’ve looked at them? I dont know) that examine what the early church fathers had to say about the eucharist.
You can find them here:

catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp
catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp
catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp
catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp

Have you ever head of the miracles of the eucharist??

Clergy who have doubted the real presence of the eucharist just like yourself have been shown the truth in some pretty amazing miracles.

If not I would suggest that you google it.
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Will you tell me about one of these miracles, JD?
 
Don’t forget the water that flowed from Jesus’ heart along with the blood when the soldier pierced His heart on the cross. Also, if you’ll notice before the cosecration at Mass, the priest pours a drop of water into the chalice containing the wine.
 
jjformica said:
Don’t forget the water that flowed from Jesus’ heart along with the blood when the soldier pierced His heart on the cross. Also, if you’ll notice before the cosecration at Mass, the priest pours a drop of water into the chalice containing the wine.
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Are you saying, JJ that the drop of water the priest puts in the wine is the Holy Spirit?

🤷
 
Congratulations, BTW, on being the 1,000th poster! If i had some wealth of wisdom to give you as a prize, i would. Sadly, i’m pretty poor in wisdom.

😃

 
maryj said:
I’ll answer if that’s Ok…the answer is No.
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Certainly that is OK, Mary! I hope it’s OK that i ask you, what did Jesus mean, here?

10Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.” 11"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? … 13Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” (John 4)
 
Oh, and by the way, Mary, i’m doing an informal poll: Do you think this is the best of threads, or the worst of threads?
 
Wow! How about that. I WAS the 1,000th poster. I don’t know about the drop of water being the Holy Spirit, but I know it’s a necessity for the consecration, for whatever reason.:confused: Maybe someone can explain why the drop of water in the chalice is required.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Certainly that is OK, Mary! I hope it’s OK that i ask you, what did Jesus mean, here?

10Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.” 11"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? … 13Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” (John 4)
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First off you can read here about the mingling of the water and wineyourcatholicvoice.com/print.php?print=news&ID=1098

I’ve got a great audio tape on a lecture Scott Hahn gave on this passage of Scripture. There is a whole lot more going on than what appears to us “modern” dayer’s. I will get back to you on this I promise.
 
maryj said:
First off you can read here about the mingling of the water and wineyourcatholicvoice.com/print.php?print=news&ID=1098

I’ve got a great audio tape on a lecture Scott Hahn gave on this passage of Scripture. There is a whole lot more going on than what appears to us “modern” dayer’s. I will get back to you on this I promise.
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No rush! Just wanted to verify that the drop of water was not the living water about which Jesus spoke.

🙂
 
Pax said:
No, Socrates, I am not…that is all just a bit too cosmic for my earthly thinking.😃
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Do you think, then, that the substance of the Eucharist is not a mystery? (Maybe i should not have been so quick to cross it off the list.)
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, and no.

Yes, because it is entirely possible that God can change the attributes of atoms. One example being the mass of the atoms of Peter’s body being reduced to the point where he was light enough to walk on water.

No, because it is absurd to think that a body can exist without atoms.

God can change the attributes of atoms, and change the molecular bonds of atoms, and add or remove atoms, but if He were to remove all atoms from a body, that body would cease to exist. It would be an atomless body, or a disembodied body, or a bodiless body–all three of which are logically impossible and irrational nonsense.

That’s my opinion, anyway. If you can explain how an atomless body is not a self-contradictory idea, that would do much to bridge the gap from where i am and where you stand.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rational/library/content/RationalEdge/jul01/m_chasm_sf.jpg
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Maybe…and maybe not. We have no scientific data that tells us anything about the glorified body of Jesus. You are right if one thinks only in terms of what we know about earthly “non-glorified” bodies, but this may be too limiting. One must admit possibilities because we do know from the evidence in the gospels that Jesus resurrected body was not ordinary. We simply do not know what the mechanism is for all of this.
 
like i said you will have to google it and find out for yourself because some of them are pretty long…i would suggest googling the one that happened in Lanciano, Italy

and make sure you read some of those articles!
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Do you think, then, that the substance of the Eucharist is not a mystery? (Maybe i should not have been so quick to cross it off the list.)
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Oh yeah, it is a mystery…no doubt about that.

I love the discussion about the water and the woman at the well. I do think that Jesus is making a reference to the Holy Spirit. In Genesis we read that the Spirit of God hovered over the waters.

Likewise God refers to himself as living water in the following passages:

Jeremiah 2:12-13
Be appalled, O heavens, at this, be shocked, be utterly desolate, says the Lord, for my people have committed two evils: they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters,

Jeremiah 17:13
O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake thee shall be put to shame; those who turn away from thee shall be written in the earth, for they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living water.

We also know that the Holy Spirit is associated with baptismal water. We even know that the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at his baptism by John in the river Jordan. This is a great sign to us for purposes of our own baptisms.

In an earlier post I mentioned that the outward sign in baptism is water, and that the outward signs in the Eucharist are bread and wine. It is the inward reality of the sacraments that are not visible. Through water we receive “the washing of regeneration” and “the Holy Spirit.” These are inward and hidden gifts. They cannot be seen or measured. Likewise, the Eucharist has outward signs that speak to the inward and hidden gifts that cannot be seen, observed, or measured.

The forgiveness of sin is real. The Holy Spirit is real. The precious body and blood of Jesus resurrected body are real. We cannot see any of these things but they are promised and they are given to us.
 
jjformica said:
Wow! How about that. I WAS the 1,000th poster. I don’t know about the drop of water being the Holy Spirit, but I know it’s a necessity for the consecration, for whatever reason.:confused: Maybe someone can explain why the drop of water in the chalice is required.
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The drop of water signifies the water that poured forth from the side of Jesus together with His blood.

This water that flowed from Jesus’ side signifies the Sacraments of forgiveness - Baptism and Reconciliation; thus, the drop of water in the wine/blood washes us (or signifies that we are washed) from our venial sins when we receive Holy Communion at Mass, and also reminds us that we have been washed from all of our sins in Baptism and in Reconciliation. 🙂
 
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