A tough one (not about me for a change)

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montanaman:
I’ll just say she’s a self-sufficient professional. Family lives several states away. The guy is her ex-boyfriend, and she’s keeping it from him until she knows what she’s going to do.
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This poor woman…she will be a single mom, away from her family with a newborn. Little emotional support - friends are great but my experience as a single parent knows that offers for babysitting just to ease stress are few and far between from friends.

Difficult situation. Wow.

As her friend, offer her as much prayer and emotional support as you can. That goes a long way when one is pregnant, alone and confused.

Montanaman, you sound like a good friend.
She shall be in my prayers.
 
She really needs to see a lawyer about her rights. I hate to disagree with other people about whether this guy raped her or not, but the thing is she didn’t go to the police immediatly and so a rape kit or immediate counseling wouldn’t back up her story. Also, if he too was drunk, then he could use that as an excuse, that they both were too drunk to make a choice that they would have agreed upon if they were sober.

My other thought if she lets the guy know that she is pregnant, and after speaking with a lawyer she finds out that she DOESN"T need his consent (or even his knowledge of the pregnancy) to give the baby up for adoption, then he could make her life h*ll in court trying to tie up consent and custody stuff with the baby.

Also, I would Highly suggest speaking with a crisis pregnancy counseler. I know she is trying to do what is best for this baby, but she needss to thinks about how benifitial it would be for the child to give it up for adoption. If she finds out that in her state the father needs to give consent, then she can move to another state for a bit until after she has the baby, and is able to give it in adoption.

If she has a baby and keeps it and this guy finds out (they live in the same town, right?), he can sue for custody. He will then be apart of her life forever. Better to give the child to a family than try to raise it yourself. I found myself pregnant at 18 unwed, and I ended up in a happy marriage with the daddy, but if I hadn’t or he hadn’t wanted to marry, I would have given it up. Of course my situation is different, but I totally understand the confusion she is going through.
 
Another thought, if she does decide to give the baby up for adoption, she can tell people that she is a serrogate mother. This isn’t really a total lie, she is carrying the child for another couple to raise, and if the people pry, she can just say she is not at liberty discuss the details of her contract. Sure this is not completly true, although she will have a legal contract for adoption with another couple, and it will shut people up.
 
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dulcissima:
I guess I didn’t make it clear. I meant the guy in the RCIA class that she seemed interested in. Is he interested in her and does he know that she is expecting?
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Not yet and maybe never. But I don’t get the impression that she would hesitate to do so. Or at least, she wouldn’t surprise him only after things got serious.
 
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beckyann2597:
She really needs to see a lawyer about her rights. I hate to disagree with other people about whether this guy raped her or not, but the thing is she didn’t go to the police immediatly and so a rape kit or immediate counseling wouldn’t back up her story. Also, if he too was drunk, then he could use that as an excuse, that they both were too drunk to make a choice that they would have agreed upon if they were sober.
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You may be right that conviction may be hard because she didn’t immediately call the police or go to counseling. However, there are facts as outlined by the OP:
  1. Her Fundie ex-boyfriend was not drunk.
  2. DNA will prove the child is his
  3. Gestation periods will allow them to mark back to New Year’s Eve as the date of conception.
  4. Fellow party-goers will testify she wasn’t dating him and she got excessively drunk.
The point is that the only real advice we can do here is to encourage her to see a Priest, pregnancy counselor, and lawyer. Frankly, since she is not considering abortion, I think who she sees first isn’t critical but to concurrently start seeing them ASAP.
 
To montana man,

I must say your initial description of the friend than the situation she was in and became a victim of was quite contrasting.

I am an Orthodox and I thought for a Catholic it would be a no no to be dating a non-Catholic? Also the partying scene and getting drunk does not fall under catagory of "practising " and orhodox. The reason why I say this is I taught classes to professional people, men and woman because of this very situation. There is a serious problem with the choices she makes for one, and if some responsibility in this is not accepted it could happen again. As drunk as she was it could have happened with someone else that night.
Now I do not think keeping her God given child is selfish and with accepting control of her life she can make it the best thing for her child and her self. It would be no different if she had been newly married and than widowed. It is her child to raise and keep. Its a matter of the will to not only make a life for her child, but to grow in her faith in the circumstances she is now in. The child is a gift from God and never to be scene as a hinderance to our dreams. Her chance to be a mother now is also a gift. He shall give us the desires of our heart if we trust in him. What relationship could possibly be better than the one developing now within her. No unknown husband is worth your child an visa versa. We should not be in the habit of trading up with the lives God has placed in our lives. Also remember the bird in hand. This may be the one and only chance she has for a loving relationship. We can not manipulate the future.
I believe this baby's father should know. He needs to be given the chance to step up to the plate and face his situaton too according to Gods will. She did say he was a christian didn't she? Giving people the chance to repent is part of it also. I knew of a situation like this and the young man took custody with his family when the young lady diecided not to keep the child. She did date him for a while it sounds like maybe he is not completely bad. A rape charge would not neccesarily bar him from custody either. He has the right to know. Definately a talk with her priest is in order. I would recommend Catholic counseling to avoid being talked into something she would regret later.
 
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Vintagecoils:
To montana man,

I must say your initial description of the friend than the situation she was in and became a victim of was quite contrasting.

I am an Orthodox and I thought for a Catholic it would be a no no to be dating a non-Catholic? Also the partying scene and getting drunk does not fall under catagory of "practising " and orhodox. The reason why I say this is I taught classes to professional people, men and woman because of this very situation. There is a serious problem with the choices she makes for one, and if some responsibility in this is not accepted it could happen again. As drunk as she was it could have happened with someone else that night.
Now I do not think keeping her God given child is selfish and with accepting control of her life she can make it the best thing for her child and her self. It would be no different if she had been newly married and than widowed. It is her child to raise and keep. Its a matter of the will to not only make a life for her child, but to grow in her faith in the circumstances she is now in. The child is a gift from God and never to be scene as a hinderance to our dreams. Her chance to be a mother now is also a gift. He shall give us the desires of our heart if we trust in him. What relationship could possibly be better than the one developing now within her. No unknown husband is worth your child an visa versa. We should not be in the habit of trading up with the lives God has placed in our lives. Also remember the bird in hand. This may be the one and only chance she has for a loving relationship. We can not manipulate the future.
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I believe this baby's father should know.  He needs to be given the chance to step up to the plate and face his situaton too according to Gods will.  She did say he was a christian didn't she?  Giving people the chance to repent is part of it also.  I knew of a situation like this and the young man took custody with his family when the young lady diecided not to keep the child.  She did date him for a while it sounds like maybe he is not completely bad.  A rape charge would not neccesarily bar him from custody either.  He has the right to know.  Definately a talk with her priest is in order.  I would recommend Catholic counseling to avoid being talked into something she would regret later.
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The comments pertaining to her behavior during a New Year’s Eve party seems more than a little harsh. Many people attend parties on New Year’s Even but that does not mean they partake in the “partying scene.” I also know that many individuals who don’t drink alcohol regularly can get drunk without intending because they don’t know their tolerance level. MM doesn’t say whether or not she’s a regular drinker/partying type. But since he categorized her as a practicing Catholic I would err on the side of assuming she went to a holiday party, behaved irresponsibly but out of character. I don’t think you can say there is a “serious problem with the choices she makes” when we’re only discussing ONE choice she made–drinking to excess on a night when most of the world is completely inebriated. No, that doesn’t make it right, but we don’t know what she intended.
 
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Princess_Abby:
The comments pertaining to her behavior during a New Year’s Eve party seems more than a little harsh. Many people attend parties on New Year’s Even but that does not mean they partake in the “partying scene.” I also know that many individuals who don’t drink alcohol regularly can get drunk without intending because they don’t know their tolerance level. MM doesn’t say whether or not she’s a regular drinker/partying type. But since he categorized her as a practicing Catholic I would err on the side of assuming she went to a holiday party, behaved irresponsibly but out of character. I don’t think you can say there is a “serious problem with the choices she makes” when we’re only discussing ONE choice she made–drinking to excess on a night when most of the world is completely inebriated. No, that doesn’t make it right, but we don’t know what she intended.
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I too read the response by Vintagecoils and was put back.

Can we quit trying to make the victim a perpetrator or co-perpetrator. I don’t care how drunk she got, how provacatively she danced (OP never said anything about this so it might not be relevant), or anything she might have done that was unwise or inappropriate.

The situation as described tells us she was raped by a person who had not been drinking, who claims to be a Christian and who is a fellow adult. In this situation, the gravity of the rape pales in comparison to her getting drunk.

Secondly, she should not inform this predator of anything until she has talked to a lawyer and understands all of her rights as they exist in her state. Depositing your sperm in the vagina of a incapacitated woman doesn’t a father make but only a sperm donor.

P.S. Go back to the original post. According to this, the victim left the party prior to her blackout. Did he come back to rape her or did he just sit in the corner waiting for his chance? Questions that her friends might be able to shed light on if this matter were pursued legally.
 
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montanaman:
…The fundie doesn’t know, and she doesn’t want him to know. He made her life hell before.

Now, the issue: She’s met a potentially great guy in RCIA, and while she has no idea if it’s going anywhere, she knows there are all kinds of questions in this scenario. Among the biggest are:

“Is it wrong of me to consider relationships while I’m pregnant in this situation?”

“By keeping the child (as opposed to adoption) I might drive away otherwise eligible men. Am I being selfish by keeping the baby and potentially depriving him/her of a father?”

“Is it more selfish to let the baby go to a good home ‘just’ so I can potentially be with a good man?”

These are her questions to the best of my understanding. She’s only a couple of months along now, and her family doesn’t even know yet. Undoubtedly she’ll have more, and more complicated, questions as time goes on.

So, thoughts?
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#1) The ‘fundie’, unless he lives far away, is going to figure this out sooner or later. Your friend needs to ask herself whether she wants to tell him now or later. She needs to find out legally what her options and her obligations are to the father.

#2) She is going to have a lot on her plate in the next 8 months. Developing new potential relationship, while not wrong, may not be best FOR HER. There are so many decisions ahead of her that she has to make so she needs to keep a clear head. Right now she may not be feeling many effects of the pregnancy but she will soon, emotionally and physically. A new relationship always brings in uncertainty (good and bad) and I’m not sure that she really needs that right now.

#3) She needs to pray and seek guidance. This is going to be a tough road for her and she is to be admired for being willing to go the distance in this tough situation.

#4) Only she can answer the questions about keeping the baby or not. It is very unselfish to give up a baby for adoption but it understandably so hard to do.

I’ll remember her in my prayers.
 
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Vintagecoils:
I am an Orthodox and I thought for a Catholic it would be a no no to be dating a non-Catholic? Also the partying scene and getting drunk does not fall under catagory of "practising " and orhodox. The reason why I say this is I taught classes to professional people, men and woman because of this very situation. There is a serious problem with the choices she makes for one, and if some responsibility in this is not accepted it could happen again. As drunk as she was it could have happened with someone else that night.
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Vintagecoils: I don’t think it is necessary to assinate this poor young lady. This situation sounds premeditated on the part of the fundamentalist. I wonder if he put something in her drink. Everyone pretty much agrees that this was date rape so the drunkenness could have been assisted by a drug of some sort. As far as it happening with someone else, a DNA test could easily verify the contrary. It is easy for us to make assumptions without knowing all of the details.
 
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montanaman:
I told her she should have pressed charges on the _____, but like many women, she didn’t think it would change anything. I also suspect that she feels far more culpable than she’s letting on.
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You know, after reading some of these responses, I almost feel the urge to defend the ‘fundie’. (Please note the ‘almost’.) There may be no one except the ‘fundie’ who knows exactly what happened and he will need to bear his part of the responsibility in this thing. But are we to sit on the sidelines and accuse someone of rape when we don’t know of the full circumstances? Yes, the woman should have the right to know what happened IN FULL and if he did indeed take advantage of her in a nefarious manner then yes, he should be brought to justice.

The reason that she may feel far more culpable than she is letting on is because she may feel that because she got drunk enough not to remember what happened then it is her own fault. Or, she may have been told that she became amorous with him first. This has been known to happen when people are drunk. This does NOT excuse him if he took advantage of her drunken state … I’m just explaining why she may be feeling partially responsible.
 
This woman should keep in mind that it is definitely not selfish to consider having the baby adopted. This is, in fact, an unselfish act.

There should be a crisis pregnancy center near her where she can go for counseling and information. They will not pressure her to give the baby for adoption, but they will inform her about the process. Potentially adoptive parents can be interviewed and chosen by the mother, and arrangements about future meetings can be discussed, if desired.
 
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Princess_Abby:
There is nothing selfish about raising a child one has created–especially created unwillingly, and nor is it selfish to give the gift of a child to a couple desperately seeking to be parents. Both decisions come with very serious ramifications and she needs to be prepared to grieve the loss she may feel either way. Loss of her dreams if she keeps the child, loss of her dreams if she gives away the child…

I don’t find anything selfish about desiring the vocation of marriage, either. It makes sense that any young girl might have the inclination to find a loving husband, and why would that desire go away just because she was raped and finds herself pregnant? I do think she’s wrong to believe that having a child would limit her ability to find love. She does not know nor can she predict the blessings God has in store for her, whether that be a husband and father for her child, or not.

Some of these questions come down to what is feasible and what isn’t, for her specifically. Can she afford, emotionally and financially and spiritually, to be a good mother to this baby? On the other side, can she afford, emotionally and spiritually, to offer the baby up for adoption? What does she feel is the best choice for the baby? (This question might take months for her to discern and answer.)

As for pursuing a relationship at this time, there isn’t anything wrong with doing so, but it presents another set of issues. However, I know my mother’s friend found herself single, pregnant and abandoned–only to meet a very compassionate man who married her, loved her and raised her child in a good home, as his own. That isn’t outside the realm of possiblity in this situation, so being open to finding out what God intends for her is of paramount importance.

She needs to see a priest, counselor and a lawyer.
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Trust me on this one. Princess Abby is right. Esp. about having a child won’t limit her ability to find a good man to love and who will love her. :love: But, she must take the time to discern what God wants for her and the baby - adoption or single parenthood. Oh and definitely get a lawyer.
 
To every one who took what i said as harsh,

I spent several years dealing with this type of situations with perfectly fine intelligent young people. This is not a one off in our society. There was no attack on her just went by the view and information montana gave us. He stated that she set up the party and implied that this was not some kind of shocking behavior in his mind. My point was that I am not talking about the entire society but a christian young girl who still wants a good life ahead of her. If any of you have done alcohol counseling you would not take this advice so hard. I counseled professional people and did seminars on this very type of sitiuations in order to help people see how not to repeat and to train others coming into the profession how not to jeopordize their career and goals due to “one New Years eve party.” And many times it was just a first, or one time situation but ended up with a unplanned chid or worse. My profession was very sensitive and this incident would have ended a carreer or had major adverse affect on ones future prospects and goals. So we had extremely intelligent young people ending up in this predicament and many did not at first see how it could have been avoided. Many had never considered there life style choices a problem.
She wants to go on with a positive life and realize some goals. There will always be jerks out there. This is a major thing to me.

Since montana only gave this snap shot of the situation I just wanted to offer all the advice I could based on my experieces in these situations based on the information that was given. You would be surprised as to how many young people don’t see some of the behaviors they consider alright that can have huge impact in their lives. As Christians we should evaluate each area of our life and how our behavior is affected by our faith, well that’s what It seems Jesus was telling us.
 
Also I believe I devoted the bulk of my original post to her and her worry’s of what decision to make. She has alot on her plate. That is why counseling from her priest and talking to family and if she chooses a lawyer. The only thing about lawyers, they are your lawyer and not the childs or the young man’s. A family counselor may be able to give her more balanced objective information for her to make a choice she can or will have to live ith and all the resulting consequences.
To add, simply providing the sperm does in many states grant much rights to the father since the laws lay heavy responsibility on them.
 
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beckyann2597:
Another thought, if she does decide to give the baby up for adoption, she can tell people that she is a serrogate mother. This isn’t really a total lie, she is carrying the child for another couple to raise, and if the people pry, she can just say she is not at liberty discuss the details of her contract. Sure this is not completly true, although she will have a legal contract for adoption with another couple, and it will shut people up.
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In the first place please don’t use term “give uup” a baby up for adoption. What she would be doing was placing her child with a loving couple. I know this may sound petty to you but years of counseling women in a crisis pregnancy has taught me that the way we say things are important. In the second place she would be lying if she said she was surrogate mother. And in many people’s minds being a surrogate mother is worse than being an unwed mother!
 
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