A wholly reasonable approach to birth control

[Rau]

Furthermore, the benefits in concentration, hormone levels, strength, and mental clarity that come from transferring unused sexual energy to productive work far outweigh any possible frustrations that can result.

This is interesting. What is “sexual energy”? What us meant by the transfer you mention?

 

[Mrchatsworth]

Fair point. But NFP is not the norm. It’s an allowance. If you are asking me to back NFP or morally distinguish between artificial birth control or NFP. I can’t. But that doesn’t make birth control correct!

 

[1ke]

If it’s so fundamental then why is teaching NFP not a bigger priority for the church?

Well, I’m not sure why you think it’s not.

Although no couple is required to do NFP, they can certainly can be providential if they want, for those that want NFP there are plenty of classes and resources.

Our diocese requires NFP classes during premarital preparation.

 

[Rau]

"The view of most Orthodox bodies is that controlling conception through “natural family planning”, or contraception, is acceptable for married couples, as long as it is done in a spirit of responsible Christian stewardship of life.

I may have misread this the first time. Perhaps it was not suggesting NFP snd contraception are interchangeable terms, rather that they are distinct, but both are acceptable. So this second element (both acceptable) differs from the RCC.

This means, first, that birth control will not be used merely because having and rearing children is seen as a financial or social inconvenience. Secondly, it means that any form of contraception used will not be physically harmful to either spouse,…

Here, it is clear that some means of artificial birth control are being held to be acceptable, given only a subset are being rejected…

@gorgias

 

[Rau]

Our diocese requires NFP classes during premarital preparation.

What is the extent of classes required on NFP specifically?

 

[1ke]

What is the extent of classes required on NFP specifically?

I’m not sure I understand the question. You take an NFP course. The couple can choose which method they learn.

You can choose between diocesan taught sympto-thermal, Marquette, or Creighton methods or sympto-thermal through Couple to Couple League.

 

[Rau]

I’m not sure I understand the question.

I mean, say, how many hours of NFP specific training is required. In my pre-marriage training the principals of NFP were discussed, but not to the detail needed to learn a method.

 

[VeryBlessed]

On the web page for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada under beliefs and practices concerning birth control it states:

"The view of most Orthodox bodies is that controlling conception through “natural family planning”, or contraception, is acceptable for married couples

Those two words “or contraception” are sufficiently vague & unspecific as to allow any form of birth control. As did the Lambeth conference result, it is the crack in the dam that leads to a flood.

The Catholic Church stance on birth control is very difficult to live up to. There’s no doubt about that. But the difficulty of living up to a standard does not make that standard wrong, nor does it make it right to reject it…

The sexual revolution of the 1960s is a direct result of changing societal attitudes due to the huge numbers of women suddenly using the pill. Rampant divorce, fatherlessness, and perhaps even the proliferation of homosexuality are all unintended consequences. Mankind does not handle consequence-free sex well. I wish we did, but clearly we do not.

The statement is clearly well intentioned and is much better than the “anything goes” wide-open door view that many other denominations have. Yet to me it is too much of a concession to a culture gone off the rails sexually.

 

[1ke]

I mean, say, how many hours of NFP specific training is required. In my pre-marriage training the principals of NFP were discussed, but not to the detail needed to learn a method.

Oh, no, you have to actually take an NFP course. So, number of hours varies somewhat based on the course.

 

[Usige]

But the RC approach is dogmatic. It is not based on scripture.

Church teaching on birth control is not based on dogma or scripture, but is grounded in natural law. Conception is part of God’s design and birth control is man taking a gift of God (allowing us to participate in the creation of his children) and saying that man is the ultimate arbiter of creation and not God. This follows the lie of Satan in the Garden of Eden that says man can control or replace what God designed as he sees fit.

 

[Usige]

What is the extent of classes required on NFP specifically?

As 1ke says it depends on the method and, in some cases, the diocese.

In my diocese, couples are to take classes “to become proficient” in one of the approved methods. When my wife and I taught NFP, we typically had a 3-4 hour introduction class with a minimum of maybe another 2 - 3 hours of followup sessions over a span of 3 or 4 months. The NFP instructor was required to provide certification that the couple had minimal proficiency and that certificate was required before the marriage could take place. These classes are separate from the main precana class on the theology of marriage which touches on, but does not cover in detail, NFP.

As a deacon in my diocese, I cannot preside at a marriage without either a certificate of completion or a rescript dispensing the couple from NFP instruction from the chancellor’s office. The rescript is generally only provided in limited cases and still requires the foundational class in the majority of cases.

 

[Anicette]

Although no couple is required to do NFP, they can certainly can be providential if they want, for those that want NFP there are plenty of classes and resources.

That may be your impression, but I strongly disagree with your affirmation. There is no plenty of class and resources available for everyone.

Our diocese requires NFP classes during premarital preparation.

A paradox. Why force NFP classes if NFP is not requires in marital life. And why force couple who know in advance they are not fertile?

Why to force a couple if taking a class is unpractical for them, for eg because of distance or because they are unavailable?

Finally, the NFP class take longer time

What percentage of people possiblity renouced of getting married because of that?

 

[Anicette]

As a deacon in my diocese, I cannot preside at a marriage without either a certificate of completion or a rescript dispensing the couple from NFP instruction from the chancellor’s office. The rescript is generally only provided in limited cases and still requires the foundational class in the majority of cases.

Whoo… that’s hard!
I would never been married myself!

 

[AlNg]

cancel edit

 

[AlNg]

The Orthodox have been cut off from Rome, which has led to error in their practices.

In the “economy” areas I’ve seen in the Orthodox churches it goes like this (a simplification):

Thing X is a sin. Thing X is hard. So apply “economy” to that, so you can do X because we know it hard. Contraception and divorce/remarriage are two that come to mind.

Because, on this issue, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada is simply wrong .

Church teaching on birth control is not based on dogma or scripture, but is grounded in natural law.

Does the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church on artificial birth control then rule out any possible union with the Eastern Orthodox Church which has a different teaching on this?

 

[Usige]

Whoo… that’s hard!

Attending a class is hard? I’ll admit that my diocese is a little more stringent on marriage prep as we tell couples it will take 9 months to a year to get through marriage prep, but NFP is only one small part of the preparation that is required. As bishop once said, if people spent a 10th of the time preparing for marriage as they did planning the wedding day or choosing a college we’d likely have 20 times fewer divorces and petitions for Nullity.

My bishop takes the responsibility seriously that couples must truly understand what they are undertaking. This includes things like if either member of the couple has been sterilized they are encouraged to have the sterilization reversed, and if they can’t both they and their fiancee must sign a form acknowledging that the sterilization is a grave offense against God and marriage and that they will not seek a declaration of Nullity on the grounds of exclusion of children.

 

[on_the_hill]

As bishop once said, if people spent a 10th of the time preparing for marriage as they did planning the wedding day or choosing a college we’d likely have 20 times fewer divorces

That’s because there would be 20 times fewer people getting married

My wife and I had to do a weekend of prep and that was plenty, believe me.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

My bishop takes the responsibility seriously that couples must truly understand what they are undertaking. This includes things like if either member of the couple has been sterilized they are encouraged to have the sterilization reversed, and if they can’t both they and their fiancee must sign a form acknowledging that the sterilization is a grave offense against God and marriage and that they will not seek a declaration of Nullity on the grounds of exclusion of children.

I think I’d like your bishop.

1ke:

The Orthodox have been cut off from Rome, which has led to error in their practices.

In the “economy” areas I’ve seen in the Orthodox churches it goes like this (a simplification):

Thing X is a sin. Thing X is hard. So apply “economy” to that, so you can do X because we know it hard. Contraception and divorce/remarriage are two that come to mind.

Because, on this issue, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada is simply wrong .

Church teaching on birth control is not based on dogma or scripture, but is grounded in natural law.

Does the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church on artificial birth control then rule out any possible union with the Eastern Orthodox Church which has a different teaching on this?

Yes, that would be a problem. So would the divorce and remarriage thing — though I will give them credit, they treat divorce as a loathsome thing, something for which penance has to be done, along with acknowledgement of the people hurt by the divorce. I will have to say — and I do not want to be accused of dissent or heterodoxy, it’s just an idea I’ve tumbled over in my mind — that I have wondered if, in some cases, “the sacrament dies”, and what once was, has ceased to be, the same way that the Body and Blood of Christ cease to exist when they dissolve in the order of nature. Just a thought.

 

[Usige]

That’s because there would be 20 times fewer people getting married

My wife and I had to do a weekend of prep and that was plenty, believe me.

That might be a good thing. If people find a handful of hours of prep as too big an inconvenience to prep for a lifetime then you really have to question how seriously they take the commitment.

I find it infinitely sad that people will spend weeks and months planning menus and choosing clothes for a day but balk at more than an hour or two spent in classes. If we lived in a society that fully understood and respected marriage the classes wouldn’t be necessary, but now we have to spend time trying to correct people who have spent their whole lives in a society where the lies of Satan permeate and pervert everything dealing with marriage.

 

[AlNg]

Yes, that would be a problem.

So in the end there really is no possibility of reunion between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic.