A witness to Hell

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Bob_Crowley said:
What happened was that the tiger shark took a little nibble, and then spat it out, “Yuk!” it said. “This bloke’s a Protestant!” and then swam off to look for a Catholic on a surf board.

I live near Brisbane, Australia, and there’s an island on the outside of Moreton Bay called Stradbroke Island. Well worth a visit if you’re ever here. It has some beautiful beaches.

But on the inner side of the island there’s a place called Amity Point. A few years ago a young lady on an outing with a church group was killed there by bull sharks. She’d unwisely swum out into deep water (pretty easy at Amity Point) and they took off both arms. It was a sad and tragic end for a church outing.
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WOW! australia! i would love to go there. i thought the Great white had a monopoly off your coast.😃 yep we have bull sharks too. its interesting. originally from michigan. but when you move somewhere like here or austraila or in africa where the Great Whites actually breach. or california, you develope a desire to learn about these creatures. i whole heartedly respect them. they are incredible. and you learn which shark is in what territory. its fascinating. they really are interesting creatures. know its off topic, but just an aside. God bless you and yours and God bless austrailia. and the wonders from down under, if you know who i mean:D Peace.
 
Celtic_Catholic said:
*Hello Ruthie,

JW’s don’t believe in hell? I didn’t know that. They seem so offended when they knock on my door and I tell them I’m Catholic. They look at me like I have lobsters crawling out of my ears. Why do you they try to conver **other Christians ***if they don’t believe in hell? I thought their point was to save everyone from hell.

God bless you! 🙂
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This is what it says in the JW bible;
Ghenna" means “Valley of Hinnon”…The valley of Hinnon became the dumping place and incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown in to be consumed in the fires to which sulphur or brimstone, was added to assit the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals who were considered undeserving of a descent burial…No living animals or human creatures where pitched into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. Hence, the place could never symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire or atacked forever by undying worms.
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Bob_Crowley said:
I’ve mentioned on this site a number of times that on the night my father died, he appeared in my room. He started with an apology, we argued and conversed, and at the end of the proceedings (which probably only lasted a couple of minutes in our time) he gave this terrifying scream which was in obvious response to something approaching him, and then promptly disappeared.

That was just over 31 years ago, and I still remember the scream. It was so terrifying that I started to scream also, despite the fact I could not see what was frightening him so terribly. I would have to say he was terror personified.

I only saw him. But I certainly remember his reaction.

As far as I’m concerned the vision of hell given to the children at Fatima is our most reliable record. I suspect some of these preachers use scare tactics (although hell is to be feared) and are not over and beyond making up descriptions based on what they’ve read and what’s in the Bible.

However the intent of their message is valid. There is something to be feared, and too many people simply ignore it.
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How terrifying.

This reminds me of a man I know whose brother was in a semiconcious (for lack of the proper term) state at the end of a terminal illness. He gives a bone chilling account of his brother’s reaction as the veil to the afterlife started to be lifted.
 
If you want to read an accurate description of hell, look up the first secrete of Fatima. As for his visions, I really can’t say that he doesn’t genuinly believe what he’s saying. But regardless, I’d be ware of anyone saying hell is literally located at the center of the earth.
 
Mr_Skeptic said:
I never was a big fan of coerced submission.
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Indeed. It should not be fear of hell but love of God that saves us from hell. Our only fear of hell should involve the knowledge that our sinful nature is a self-destructive path that will lead us into hell.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
Indeed. It should not be fear of hell but love of God that saves us from hell. Our only fear of hell should involve the knowledge that our sinful nature is a self-destructive path that will lead us into hell.
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There is on the otherhand, such thing as a healthy fear of God and certainly tied to that is a certain fear of Hell. I do agree principally though, if the only reason why you’re in the faith is “the off chance this religion thing is right, and I don’t want to go to Hell” then perhaps you’re not in it for the right reasons… And certainly you have a very fragile faith, which will tend to get destroyed easily.
 
I am reminded of a radio broadcast by Fulton Sheen where he contrasted Christianity to authoritarianism, and mentioned that the basis of authoritarianism was fear. Christianity was different, because the basis of loyalty in Christianity was love.

People obeyed the Soviets because they feared the gulags. People obeyed the Nazis because they feared the concentration camps. People obeyed the Khmer Rouge because they feared the killing fields. We should not turn God into a dictator just as bad, who has His own concentration camp in store for dissenters and will gleefully send those who disobey Him into it. We send ourselves to hell - that is a vital distinction that must be made. Hell is what we ourselves sow. God is seeking to save us from that self-destructive path, and so He extends His arm to us for an embrace. If we make people obey God through simple, animal-like fear, then we make Him no better than any authoritarian evil that has existed before.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
I am reminded of a radio broadcast by Fulton Sheen where he contrasted Christianity to authoritarianism, and mentioned that the basis of authoritarianism was fear. Christianity was different, because the basis of loyalty in Christianity was love.

People obeyed the Soviets because they feared the gulags. People obeyed the Nazis because they feared the concentration camps. People obeyed the Khmer Rouge because they feared the killing fields. We should not turn God into a dictator just as bad, who has His own concentration camp in store for dissenters and will gleefully send those who disobey Him into it. **We send ourselves to hell **- that is a vital distinction that must be made. Hell is what we ourselves sow. God is seeking to save us from that self-destructive path, and so He extends His arm to us for an embrace. If we make people obey God through simple, animal-like fear, then we make Him no better than any authoritarian evil that has existed before.
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I certianly agree with this post entirly, I think where fear of God and Hell comes in is with regard to the bolded. I.E. even when you love God (I know this through current experience actually) it’s still difficult to follow his moral law. This is where the fear of God and Hell should come in, if you can’t do it for the love of God, would you at least follow the teachings of Christ for the fear of him. i.e., sort of a last resort to get you into line.

But just as you say, God isn’t about fire and brimstone, he would have had no reason to send his only begotten Son to us to be tortured and crusified if salvation wasn’t the ultimate ends.
 
On this, “we send ourselves to hell”, theme, why can’t I just opt out of the whole deal?
 
Mr_Skeptic said:
On this, “we send ourselves to hell”, theme, why can’t I just opt out of the whole deal?
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Nope, you either spend eternity in the celestial liturgy or you spend it disconnected from God, a state which we use the term “hell” to describe.
 
crazzeto said:
Nope, you either spend eternity in the celestial liturgy or you spend it disconnected from God, a state which we use the term “hell” to describe.
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Why can’t I just cease to exist after I die?
 
Mr_Skeptic said:
Why can’t I just cease to exist after I die?
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Because God gave you an immortal soul which will continue to exist either in a state of eternal live (connected to God), or eternal death (damnation, disconnected from God). It is the nature of how we were created.
 
crazzeto said:
Because God gave you an immortal soul which will continue to exist either in a state of eternal live (connected to God), or eternal death (damnation, disconnected from God). It is the nature of how we were created.
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I find it odd that the default value of your God’s creation, is eternal damnation.
 
Mr_Skeptic said:
I find it odd that the default value of your God’s creation, is eternal damnation.
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Where did you get any of this out of anything I posted? The default value of God’s creation is grace and perfection. Damnation is incompatible with this.
 
crazzeto said:
Where did you get any of this out of anything I posted? The default value of God’s creation is grace and perfection. Damnation is incompatible with this.
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I got the idea from the whole ‘Original Sin’ concept. I got it from the teaching that in my natural state, without seeking and asking God’s forgiveness, without accepting Jesus’ sacrifice for my sins, and without taking any proactive actions in this regard, the default value is eternal damnation of my soul.
 
Mr_Skeptic said:
I got the idea from the whole ‘Original Sin’ concept. I got it from the teaching that in my natural state, without seeking and asking God’s forgiveness, without accepting Jesus’ sacrifice for my sins, and without taking any proactive actions in this regard, the default value is eternal damnation of my soul.
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Refusing God’s love, not accepting Christ sacrifice, or trying to “opt out” is a decision. There is no default. We choose to accept or we choose not accept. Ignoring the offer of redemption from our “original sin” is an active choice, not a passive one. Ignoring the dilemma, or refusing to make a choice is a choice in iteself.

God gave us existence, an eternal soul. We can’t change that. What we choose to do about it is up to us. Choosing to ignore it is a choice, not a default.

That is how going to hell and “opting out” are the same thing…
 
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