A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing

[JimG]

There was a woman who spoke at the Synod on the Family—a Romanian physician. She told the assembly that the cause of the family crisis is not poverty or consumerism, but rather an ideological revolution being waged by cultural Marxism.

“This ideology calls itself progressive,” she said, “but it is nothing else than the ancient serpent’s offer, for man to take control, to replace God, to arrange salvation here, in this world. It’s an error of religious nature; it’s Gnosticism.”

“I thought that these two interventions somehow summarized the problem that I was addressing, which is that there is an assault of a religious nature against God’s creation, his moral and natural order. And this is not coming from flesh and blood, from consumerism and individualism, as we usually hear — the cause of the sexual revolution. It’s something deeper than that, an ideology that is a form of Gnosticism, which we are facing nowadays. Another problem is that the Church is fighting this assault not only from gnostic heresies coming from the outside, but this is also happening inside.”

An interview she gave with Edward Pentin can be found in the National Catholic Register here.

 

[St_Francis]

Thanks for your comments, Cathoholic.

We are called to love. Even to love our enemies. So, often we strive to be tolerant to the point of being naive. Often we assume the other’s goals match our goal and their methods are as good as our methods.

Prudence should tell us to not assume too much; to study up on methods that usually lead to bad ends; to examine more closely whether the potential partner is worthy or not of our cooperation. We must always allow that some sheep are indeed wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Here is an article by Archbishop Fulton Sheen about tolerance.

Here is a great quote from the article: *What is tolerance? Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil and a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. But what is more important than the definition is the field of its application. The important point here is this: Tolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons. Tolerance applies to the erring; intolerance to the error. *

 

[St_Francis]

Utah Rose (pretty name!) mentioned Bella Dodd. Here is a link to her book in chapters. One of the first books I read on a small electronic device, by copying each chapter into the Notes app. Fascinating book!

 

[lynnvinc]

I thought the wolf in the title referred to Trump…

Don’t know anything about Saul Alinsky, but I’m skeptical of what EWTN says on some issues. It is pretty much anti-environmental when they very rarely speak about the environment, but in a deceptive way, an anti-environmental “wolf” in sheep’s clothing of touting “earth stewardship” as they deny various environmental problems and denounce environmentalists as being neo-pagans, etc., damning with faint praise.

To me EWTN follows the conservative party line of American politics and is not really reflective of Catholicism, but sort of a perverted “American Conservative Catholicism.”

So I’ve just convinced myself by saying all that that Saul Alinsky could have been on the right track doing good things (tho I would admit that no one is perfect).

 

[lynnvinc]

Just read the Wikipedia on Alinsky and saw that he started the Industrial Areas Foundation, which has within it or associated with it Valley Interfaith (an interfaith org in our area).

Concerned about the 33 acre underground plume of benzene under a poor Hispanic community in McAllen (the town next to mine) from fuel leakages that had gone on for decades, and seeing that no one was doing anything about it, while people were dying of leukemia, including children, I scouted around for some org to take it on, since I couldn’t do it myself.

I had some vague memory of hearing about Valley Interfaith when I came to the Rio Grande Valley in 2002 (I think they were working to get insurance coverage for parish secretaries at the time), so I looked them up and they got involved. They having been putting forth much effort to try to organize that neighborhood and get gov to clean up the problem, but so far they have not been very successful. I am now out of the area, so I can’t help them much, but I do hope they will be successful.

So, yeah for Alinsky. When others don’t care at all about poverty and people dying from harms, the group he started (or its affiliate) does. And that is something very special and very great. I’m not saying all his & Valley Interfaith’s causes and tactics (don’t know about all these) are good and great, but at least some good has come out of his efforts.

Boo on EWTN, which has been a disappointment to me many times since we got cable in 2007 (and I had been looking forward for many years to get cable and see EWTN, hearing it was a Catholic TV channel).

 

[St_Francis]

I thought the wolf in the title referred to Trump…

Don’t know anything about Saul Alinsky, but I’m skeptical of what EWTN says on some issues. It is pretty much anti-environmental when they very rarely speak about the environment, but in a deceptive way, an anti-environmental “wolf” in sheep’s clothing of touting “earth stewardship” as they deny various environmental problems and denounce environmentalists as being neo-pagans, etc., damning with faint praise.

To me EWTN follows the conservative party line of American politics and is not really reflective of Catholicism, but sort of a perverted “American Conservative Catholicism.”

So I’ve just convinced myself by saying all that that Saul Alinsky could have been on the right track doing good things (tho I would admit that no one is perfect).

Just read the Wikipedia on Alinsky and saw that he started the Industrial Areas Foundation, which has within it or associated with it Valley Interfaith (an interfaith org in our area).

Concerned about the 33 acre underground plume of benzene under a poor Hispanic community in McAllen (the town next to mine) from fuel leakages that had gone on for decades, and seeing that no one was doing anything about it, while people were dying of leukemia, including children, I scouted around for some org to take it on, since I couldn’t do it myself.

I had some vague memory of hearing about Valley Interfaith when I came to the Rio Grande Valley in 2002 (I think they were working to get insurance coverage for parish secretaries at the time), so I looked them up and they got involved. They having been putting forth much effort to try to organize that neighborhood and get gov to clean up the problem, but so far they have not been very successful. I am now out of the area, so I can’t help them much, but I do hope they will be successful.

So, yeah for Alinsky. When others don’t care at all about poverty and people dying from harms, the group he started (or its affiliate) does. And that is something very special and very great. I’m not saying all his & Valley Interfaith’s causes and tactics (don’t know about all these) are good and great, but at least some good has come out of his efforts.

Boo on EWTN, which has been a disappointment to me many times since we got cable in 2007 (and I had been looking forward for many years to get cable and see EWTN, hearing it was a Catholic TV channel).

Saul Alinsky dedicated his first book to (as I recall) “the first rebel, Lucifer;” maybe we should all remember that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

 

[lynnvinc]

Saul Alinsky dedicated his first book to (as I recall) “the first rebel, Lucifer;” maybe we should all remember that the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

From what I understand from the Wiki article is he basically left his Orthodox Jewish religion and I think became an agnostic, so I doubt he really believed in Lucifer, at least not the way we Catholics do. As for him saying he’d rather go to Hell, I’m thinking what he meant (since he didn’t believe in Heaven or Hell), is he’d rather be with the poor and lowly people to help them in the afterlife, if there is an afterlife. This is not to different from St. Therese saying she wanted to spend her Heaven doing good on Earth. Of course she meant saving souls…which would be attending to the rich and powerful who do bad things, abuse, and oppress the poor and lowly. While Alinsky expressed that he wanted to continue (materially?) helping the poor and oppressed (whom I guess he assumed would be in Hell). So it seems he really had a very different idea about Hell and Lucifer than we have…

 

[po18guy]

I am trying to obtain the views and knowledge from others free from any misleading personal interpretation of the EWTN piece I might provide, that could direct or limit their comments.d other books from noted authors. I try to reject misleading summaries of history.

The recent Wikileaks regarding a certain losing US presidential candidate’s “inquiry” into infiltrating the Church should open your eyes. In Alinsky’s own words:

ALINSKY: … if there is an afterlife, and I have anything to say about it, I will unreservedly choose to go to hell.
PLAYBOY: Why?
ALINSKY: Hell would be heaven for me. All my life I’ve been with the have-nots. Over here, if you’re a have-not, you’re short of dough. If you’re a have-not in hell, you’re short of virtue. Once I get into hell, I’ll start organizing the have-nots over there.
PLAYBOY: Why them?
ALINSKY: They’re my kind of people.

The fact that his principles have flown under the radar for so many decades shows the evil genius of his ideas.

But, his ideas are still evil.

 

[7_Sorrows]

From what I understand from the Wiki article is he basically left his Orthodox Jewish religion and I think became an agnostic, so I doubt he really believed in Lucifer, at least not the way we Catholics do. As for him saying he’d rather go to Hell, I’m thinking what he meant (since he didn’t believe in Heaven or Hell), is he’d rather be with the poor and lowly people to help them in the afterlife, if there is an afterlife. This is not to different from St. Therese saying she wanted to spend her Heaven doing good on Earth. Of course she meant saving souls…which would be attending to the rich and powerful who do bad things, abuse, and oppress the poor and lowly. While Alinsky expressed that he wanted to continue (materially?) helping the poor and oppressed (whom I guess he assumed would be in Hell). So it seems he really had a very different idea about Hell and Lucifer than we have…

Too bad we can’t ask him. If he didn’t believe in Lucifer, I don’t think he would have dedicated the book to him or acknowledged him.

 

[lynnvinc]

Too bad we can’t ask him. If he didn’t believe in Lucifer, I don’t think he would have dedicated the book to him or acknowledged him.

Just by reading the Wiki article on him he seems to have a unusual sense of humor and a strong inclination to shock people. Maybe it is a type of Jewish humor that non-Jews don’t understand. I have heard that Jews feel much more at liberty than Christians to rail against God when things aren’t going well.

Based on what I read about Alinsky, I doubt he was into some Satanic cult thing. He probably wouldn’t have had time for such nonsense, since he seemed totally focused on helping the poor and oppressed.

In fact it seems he may have been upset with mainstream religion in general for preaching “do-good,” but adherents not really practicing it, even justifying in a twisted version of religion why they should not practice it, which I sometimes feel and many others feel. I think that is a reason a lot of people leave religion, bec of the hypocrisy; they are too idealistic. I noticed hypocrisy in my Protestant religion as a teen and left that church, but by the time I became a Catholic in my 20s I realized there was hypocrisy in every religion and that I too was sometimes, maybe often a hypocrite.

Or, perhaps later in his life he did get into devil worship, but I suppose there would be some evidence if he did, aside from a book dedication. It just seems far-fetched, since he was into helping people, not harming them.

I remember when I was in San Francisco in the mid-60s seeing a man in red clerical dress with a devil goatee crossing a street in North Beach – perhaps a preacher for the Church of Satan. They have all sorts of weird things & people in SF! I figured the hypocrites in that religion would say – instead of “I gave at the office” – “I killed at the office.”

 

[St_Francis]

From what I understand from the Wiki article is he basically left his Orthodox Jewish religion and I think became an agnostic, so I doubt he really believed in Lucifer, at least not the way we Catholics do. As for him saying he’d rather go to Hell, I’m thinking what he meant (since he didn’t believe in Heaven or Hell), is he’d rather be with the poor and lowly people to help them in the afterlife, if there is an afterlife. This is not to different from St. Therese saying she wanted to spend her Heaven doing good on Earth. Of course she meant saving souls…which would be attending to the rich and powerful who do bad things, abuse, and oppress the poor and lowly. While Alinsky expressed that he wanted to continue (materially?) helping the poor and oppressed (whom I guess he assumed would be in Hell). So it seems he really had a very different idea about Hell and Lucifer than we have…

I don’t think there is any evidence that he was into Satanism, but his words show a desire to be in charge rather than allowing God to be in charge. it’s as if he were in love with his own organizing principles over God’s.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Just by reading the Wiki article on him he seems to have a unusual sense of humor and a strong inclination to shock people. Maybe it is a type of Jewish humor that non-Jews don’t understand. I have heard that Jews feel much more at liberty than Christians to rail against God when things aren’t going well.

Based on what I read about Alinsky, I doubt he was into some Satanic cult thing. He probably wouldn’t have had time for such nonsense, since he seemed totally focused on helping the poor and oppressed.

In fact it seems he may have been upset with mainstream religion in general for preaching “do-good,” but adherents not really practicing it, even justifying in a twisted version of religion why they should not practice it, which I sometimes feel and many others feel. I think that is a reason a lot of people leave religion, bec of the hypocrisy; they are too idealistic. I noticed hypocrisy in my Protestant religion as a teen and left that church, but by the time I became a Catholic in my 20s I realized there was hypocrisy in every religion and that I too was sometimes, maybe often a hypocrite.

Or, perhaps later in his life he did get into devil worship, but I suppose there would be some evidence if he did, aside from a book dedication. It just seems far-fetched, since he was into helping people, not harming them.

I remember when I was in San Francisco in the mid-60s seeing a man in red clerical dress with a devil goatee crossing a street in North Beach – perhaps a preacher for the Church of Satan. They have all sorts of weird things & people in SF! I figured the hypocrites in that religion would say – instead of “I gave at the office” – “I killed at the office.”

I am not saying he was a devil worshipper or attended the Church of Satan. I think he liked imitating Lucifer by wanting to destroy Christian values and morals and causing our society and culture to decline.

 

[lynnvinc]

I don’t think there is any evidence that he was into Satanism, but his words show a desire to be in charge rather than allowing God to be in charge. it’s as if he were in love with his own organizing principles over God’s.

I guess that sort of sounds like most of us at least part of the time if not all of the time, including those of us who are Christian and should know better

It is too bad Alinsky was not in a faith tradition that would have helped him be a better person, but I think he still did good work and we should not throw the baby of his good accomplishments out with the bathwater of his short-comings. I am very grateful that his org was able to help the victims of the benzene plume.

Not sure what the EWTN program had to say, but I don’t trust EWTN in all things – I think it has become somewhat corrupted (at least some of its programs) by American ideology that runs counter to true Catholicism. I’m out of the country now, but will try to see the program, so I’ll understand it the fault is on Alinsky or at least partly on EWTN and its unchristian streak.

 

[St_Francis]

I guess that sort of sounds like most of us at least part of the time if not all of the time, including those of us who are Christian and should know better

It is too bad Alinsky was not in a faith tradition that would have helped him be a better person, but I think he still did good work and we should not throw the baby of his good accomplishments out with the bathwater of his short-comings. I am very grateful that his org was able to help the victims of the benzene plume.

Not sure what the EWTN program had to say, but I don’t trust EWTN in all things – I think it has become somewhat corrupted (at least some of its programs) by American ideology that runs counter to true Catholicism. I’m out of the country now, but will try to see the program, so I’ll understand it the fault is on Alinsky or at least partly on EWTN and its unchristian streak.

I too am interested in seeing the movie. i uséd to listen to EWTN on the radio but stopped when we moved out of range.

I am ambivalent about Alinsky. Yes, he did do good work but at what price? His tactics, his “Rules,” are about bullying, not about rational discourse. So many now use his tactics and not, imho, to nécessarily a good end, because of the rejection of reason.

 

[lynnvinc]

I too am interested in seeing the movie. i uséd to listen to EWTN on the radio but stopped when we moved out of range.

I am ambivalent about Alinsky. Yes, he did do good work but at what price? His tactics, his “Rules,” are about bullying, not about rational discourse. So many now use his tactics and not, imho, to nécessarily a good end, because of the rejection of reason.

Well, it seems the org he founded, the Industrial Areas Foundation (industrialareasfoundation.org/), uses good tactics at least now. I was very impressed with how the people from IAF & its affiliate Valley Interfaith got community people (the victims) involved and to take the lead, and got political figures and TCEQ (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality) persons to attend community meetings to explain and discuss the matter. There was no bullying, but we were hoping that there would be enough pressure put on officials to do their duty, but apparently not enough to date.

I hope they continue to work on this issue. A clean up is feasible, tho it would cost something (certainly not prohibitive), and it would be nothing compared to the lives that are being lost and the health care expenses, etc. To date over the past 10 years the TCEQ has only taken a small swimming pool’s worth of the benzene (I figure that was just the testing fluid) out of the 33 acres that are there underground harming people, including children and teachers in the elementary school above the plume – who go home complaining of smelling like chemicals. The local head of Valley Interfaith (the org that is affiliated with IAF) lives on the plume and attends St. Joseph Church (Catholic), right next to the plume, which is where they were having the meetings. His wife died of cancer, which could have been due to the benzene, but since it wasn’t leukemia (which has more certainly been linked to benzene), he’s not totally sure it was due to the plume.

There is also a risk of a huge explosion, as happened due to a similar plume under Guadalajara in 1992, but that is not very likely, acc to the TCEQ (whom we don’t trust much, since they’ve been involved in fraud and cover-up cases).

So in my books, Alinsky did some good and I am thankful he was here on earth to do that. Let’s pray for his soul, since he seems to have done some bad as well.