AA and Higher Power of Your Choice - In a Traditional catholic context?

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In many parish halls these days we have a local chapter of AA. This got me to thinking about the AA program and insistence that the “higher power” (or God of your making) is necessary in the process of healing yourself from alcoholism.

I was curious to know two things; (1) did the pre-vatican II church allow AA in its parish halls? and (2) isn’t the acceptance of AA in catholic parish halls saying it is ok to make up a God (or god) of your choice?

Bruce
Trickster
 
Presumably as a Catholic you would (hopefully) understand your higher power to be the trinitarian God of our faith.
 
trickster said:
In many parish halls these days we have a local chapter of AA. This got me to thinking about the AA program and insistence that the “higher power” (or God of your making) is necessary in the process of healing yourself from alcoholism.

I was curious to know two things; (1) did the pre-vatican II church allow AA in its parish halls? and (2) isn’t the acceptance of AA in catholic parish halls saying it is ok to make up a God (or god) of your choice?

Bruce
Trickster
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Answers 😃
  1. Churches before Vatican II most likely didn’t have AA, but that’s not to say they never. Although founded in 1935, it was only comprised of Protestants until 1936 when the first Catholic member joined. But the whole program never really gained popularity until the 50’s and 60’s.
  2. No, the acceptance of AA does not mean it’s okay to make up one’s own god. I never knew this was a part of the program, but perhaps when held in a Catholic parish hall, prayers and devotions are used in that place. Perhaps petitions to the Divine Mercy or Our Lady are made? Or the patron saint of alcoholics?
 
Given that a nursing nun had a hand in helping found Alcoholics Anonymous
barefootsworld.net/aasisterignatia.html
your argument holds very little water.
Remember that many alcoholics are very headstrong people, that is what got (some) where they are. Yes, there are some who will never accept a Traditional Catholic perspective. To deny others this avenue for healing because of those who will not seems very short-sighted.

That said, AA meetings at Catholic church halls tend to have more Catholics attending, simply because they feel more at home there.

AA is an independent organization which only rents the premises where meetings are held. Several of these traditions make this very clear:
aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-122_en.pdf
  1. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any
    related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and
    prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
  2. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside
    contributions.
Click to expand...
Therefore, an AA group meeting on church property is not a parish-sponsored activity.

That said, there is another organization for Catholics which might be more to your liking, but it is not very well-known.
calixsociety.org/
 
trickster said:
In many parish halls these days we have a local chapter of AA. This got me to thinking about the AA program and insistence that the “higher power” (or God of your making) is necessary in the process of healing yourself from alcoholism.

I was curious to know two things; (1) did the pre-vatican II church allow AA in its parish halls? and (2) isn’t the acceptance of AA in catholic parish halls saying it is ok to make up a God (or god) of your choice?

Bruce
Trickster
Click to expand...
The AA program suggests that members rely upon a God of their understanding. It is different than a made up god or god of one’s own making.

Allowing an AA group to meet on Church property is not an endorsement of making up a god. The group that meets in a Church pays rent and does not endorse the Church, nor does the Church endorse the group.

If the Church is endorsing anything by allowing an AA group to rent a space, it is endorsing the understanding that people need help to recover from alcoholism and the AA program has been able to provide such help.
 
LoyalViews said:
Answers 😃
  1. Churches before Vatican II most likely didn’t have AA, but that’s not to say they never. Although founded in 1935, it was only comprised of Protestants until 1936 when the first Catholic member joined. But the whole program never really gained popularity until the 50’s and 60’s.
  2. No, the acceptance of AA does not mean it’s okay to make up one’s own god. I never knew this was a part of the program, but perhaps when held in a Catholic parish hall, prayers and devotions are used in that place. Perhaps petitions to the Divine Mercy or Our Lady are made? Or the patron saint of alcoholics?
Click to expand...
Who is the patron saint of alcoholics, by the way 🙂

Bruce
 
Jerusha said:
Given that a nursing nun had a hand in helping found Alcoholics Anonymous
barefootsworld.net/aasisterignatia.html
your argument holds very little water.
Remember that many alcoholics are very headstrong people, that is what got (some) where they are. Yes, there are some who will never accept a Traditional Catholic perspective. To deny others this avenue for healing because of those who will not seems very short-sighted.

That said, AA meetings at Catholic church halls tend to have more Catholics attending, simply because they feel more at home there.

AA is an independent organization which only rents the premises where meetings are held. Several of these traditions make this very clear:
aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-122_en.pdf
Therefore, an AA group meeting on church property is not a parish-sponsored activity.

That said, there is another organization for Catholics which might be more to your liking, but it is not very well-known.
calixsociety.org/
Click to expand...
Thanks for all that…but I had no opinion or wasn’t making any arguements, I just simply noticed AA in our church and it sparked my interest…no great theological debates here 🙂

Bruce
 
MtnDwellar said:
The AA program suggests that members rely upon a God of their understanding. It is different than a made up god or god of one’s own making…
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How so? A God of their understanding can be anything. Therefore that is a god of one’s own making…I’m not seeing your differentiation but am interested in hearing it out…
MtnDwellar said:
Allowing an AA group to meet on Church property is not an endorsement of making up a god. The group that meets in a Church pays rent and does not endorse the Church, nor does the Church endorse the group. .
Click to expand...
So why does the Church usually not allow gay and lesbian meetings, or pro-choice meetings? I think it is because those groups stand for something that is not consistent with Catholic teaching, no? Do you see what I am getting at? Supporting AA meetings - despite the good intention - also promotes a practice and a belief that may be counter to the church teaching? Just thoughts…I am not making any arguements just thinking out loud…
MtnDwellar said:
If the Church is endorsing anything by allowing an AA group to rent a space, it is endorsing the understanding that people need help to recover from alcoholism and the AA program has been able to provide such help.
Click to expand...
I agree… look forward to your thoughts on this…thanks for responding, your comments are much appreciated. \

Bruce
Trickster
 
I mean no disrespect for anyone who attends AA. But what I have heard of the program
is that they have a VERY LOW recovery rate.

Like, 5%? Agian no disrespect for those who are succeeding. Just wonder how effective AA is.
😊
 
trickster said:
In many parish halls these days we have a local chapter of AA. This got me to thinking about the AA program and insistence that the “higher power” (or God of your making) is necessary in the process of healing yourself from alcoholism.

I was curious to know two things; (1) did the pre-vatican II church allow AA in its parish halls? and (2) isn’t the acceptance of AA in catholic parish halls saying it is ok to make up a God (or god) of your choice?

Bruce
Trickster
Click to expand...
Not at all. Let’s take this in a more recent context. Think of Bl. Mother Teresa. Most of the people for whom she cared were are non-Catholics and many are non-Christians. In India, they were Hindus and Muslims. Mother allowed them to pray in her homes. This was not an endorsement.

Her mission was to serve Christ in the poorest of the poor. Christ does not cease to be present, because the person is of a different belief. The work is not about endorsing anything, but about caring for Christ who is sick and suffering.

The same is true of AA. The work that Sister Ignatia did was not about endorsing anything or proselytizing. She was serving Christ who was present in the alcoholic. Her focus was on Christ. So, when she admitted AA to her hospital, which opened the doors for AA into other Catholic facilities, including parishes, the doors are being opened to the poor and suffering Christ. The focus in on serving him and accommodating him.

I was in DC when Mother Teresa opened the home for AIDS victims. A reporter tried to trap her by asking her a similar question. I’ll have to paraphrase it, because I can’t recall the exact wording after so many years. It went something like this.

“Isn’t this a conflict with Catholicism, since most of these people are known homosexuals and they are being admitted into a Catholic home without any requirements?”

Mother thought about it for 30 seconds. She responded, “I see sick people. I see Jesus being abandoned. I see people who should live their last days with dignity. Do you see anything that I don’t?”

That’s a conversation stopper if ever there was one.

This is the way that we must look at anyone who is sick and comes to our door. The Gospel says,

"I was sick and you visited me.

I was a stranger and you welcomed me.

I was hungry and you gave me to eat.

etc."

We must never close our hearts and doors to the voiceless Christ, because of religion. That fact that a suffering person has a different belief, does not dispense us from looking past that and recognizing the voiceless Christ who knocks at our door for help.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
trickster said:
How so? A God of their understanding can be anything. Therefore that is a god of one’s own making…I’m not seeing your differentiation but am interested in hearing it out…
Click to expand...
God of one’s own understanding may be the understanding derived from Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, Native American, or other. God of one’s own making implies that it is a more unique understanding of God. Does it not?

The Catholic Church has been involved in AA nearly since AA’s inception. Father Ed Dowling was a close friend of AA’s founder, Bill Wilson. Father Dowling was considered Bill’s sponsor.

I know that meetings originally were held inside the homes of members. As the meetings grew, they changed the meeting places to restaurants. I don’t when they started to have meetings in churches. Today, meetings are still sometimes held in houses, but also in churches of many denominations, other types of meeting places, and within buildings that are owned or rented by AA clubs.
 
trickster said:
How so? A God of their understanding can be anything. Therefore that is a god of one’s own making…I’m not seeing your differentiation but am interested in hearing it
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. A god of their understanding can be a Hindu god, which is not of the individual’s making, but of his cultural community’s making. A God of one’s understanding would imply tha Abrahamic God (Jewish, Christian or Muslim). Again one doesn’t “invent” that God but is taught His nature by one’s elders. It doesn’t matter if that understanding is flawed or not, it isn’t a God of one’s making but a God or god of one’s faith.
 
I think that we’re getting stuck on the term “higher power” or “god of you choice” or however else it may be expressed and missing the mission of the Church.

The Church welcomes these groups because it is her mission to serve Christ who is broken and sick. This is not a catechetical ministry. It’s a corporal work of mercy. There are different kinds of ministry and service that the Church offers. Each has its time and place.

Forget what a person may be thinking when he hears the term “higher power”. Focus on what the Church is thinking. This is what Pope Benedict has called, “sentire cum ecclesia”. The Church is reaching out to the broken Christ who is present in these people. She offers them a space where Christ can rest.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
KateKimmer said:
I mean no disrespect for anyone who attends AA. But what I have heard of the program
is that they have a VERY LOW recovery rate.

Like, 5%? Agian no disrespect for those who are succeeding. Just wonder how effective AA is.
😊
Click to expand...
Sober 12 years…Thanks be to God and AA. I saw many successful recoveries, and many not make it (at least right away). “It works if you work it” is true not only for recovery, but for our faith lives, too eh?
Have not been to a meeting in the last 7, though.

I would add, however to the OP’s question:
The ‘higher power’ can also be ‘the group’ of AA members. Not so much making up God in your image, but the necessary realization that there is a power GREATER than yourself.
 
CaptCrunch73 said:
St Maximillian Kolbe is the Patron Saint of those with addiction.
Click to expand...
I’m a Franciscan and not sure why Bl. John Paul assigned that one to him. He never worked in that ministry, nor was he ever an addict. 🤷

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
St. Maximillian’s death by an injection (carbonic acid) is the connection to addicts.
 
Catholics have been members of AA from its earliest times. My very first exposure to AA was through the autobiographical book “Prodigal Shepherd.” It was written by a Catholic priest who was a member of AA during Prohibition in the US. I leave it to you to look up the dates.

Reb Levi
 
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