AA

[Mgray82]

Coptic, are babies born with genetic deficiencies when they are born into original sin?

 

[CopticChristian]

I’m pretty sure you’re wrong about all of those things!

Mgray,

I was hoping I would not be wrong about your ability to elevate your thinking. Those lurking will be aided by your doing so.

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic, are babies born with genetic deficiencies when they are born into original sin?

Mgray,

You shot the moon asking me about Antabuse. You have some preconcieved answer that bears no interest in my anwering any of your questions. Your recalcitrant attitude leaves me with the reality that you learn nothing, know less and have no interest in much of anything.

Answer your own question and provide your own discussion about things you know less about and things that others may find less interesting.

Enjoy your solitary discussion.

 

[Mgray82]

Mgray,

I was hoping I would not be wrong about your ability to elevate your thinking. Those lurking will be aided by your doing so.

We call it “sarcasm”. But I understand that with the constraints and rules of CAF, you can’t come out and call me names as I’m sure you would like to.

That’s what people who are desperate resort to when they can’t come up with anything better.

 

[CopticChristian]

We call it “sarcasm”. But I understand that with the constraints and rules of CAF, you can’t come out and call me names as I’m sure you would like to.

That’s what people who are desperate resort to when they can’t come up with anything better.

Mgray,

Sarcasm is a form of anger. Pity is sadness of anothers plight. You may want to try discussing your understanding of Charity, as you say you have this, and I believe you may, as it concerns virtue.

Tell me about your understanding of Charity and other virtues as it concerns human effort.

 

[Mgray82]

Mgray,

Sarcasm is a form of anger. Pity is sadness of anothers plight. You may want to try discussing your understanding of Charity, as you say you have this, and I believe you may, as it concerns virtue.

Tell me about your understanding of Charity and other virtues as it concerns human effort.

I just want to know if babies are born with genetic disorders as a result of original sin…

I don’t have all the answers…I’m a mere catechumen. If you can’t answer this perhaps a more knowledgable Catholic can.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry to offend, I come from SA in which case our drug is lust. Your description of your wife’s tendency for Alchohol mirros my tendency for lust. Lust is always a sin. I agree that drinking is not always a sin. Drinking becomes sinful when it is done to excess or placed in an elevated status and becomes an idol for a particular person.

Glad to hear your wife is working on recovery and I hope she is doing well.

Andrew,

Steve’s wife is a person none of us know. Steve provided insight into his experience of his wife. This is a situation that requires understanding, acceptance, compassion and in my opinion to compare and contrast Steve’s wife with anything anyone of has experience does not help Steve.

In my opinion your expereince means something to only you. The 12 step paradigm issues of sharing others experience is not meaningful in my opinion for others. I believe it is imperative to tread lightly with Steve’s experience.

I stepped into a sensitive area by offering a few names and that is the extent of my attempt to understand Steve’s wife. I offered information that was consoling that would not be interpreted as offensive.

Prayer for you, Steve, his wife and anyone else that suffers would be something you, I and all should offer.

 

[CopticChristian]

I just want to know if babies are born with genetic disorders as a result of original sin…

I don’t have all the answers…I’m a mere catechumen. If you can’t answer this perhaps a more knowledgable Catholic can.

Mgray,

Seek the mountain of understanding for information you want. Ask questions in a way that provide insight that you truly want answers. A formula for doing so would be…

My understanding of genetics is this…

My understanding of Original sin is this…

I was thinking the following…

What do you think of how I formulated this idea, are there things I don’t understand and could, do you have any insights that might help me form my conscience and understanding…

This might get my attention.

 

[jesuspsr]

Is the twelve steps of AA something good and has it helped you in you catholicism?

For me it’s been very good. If anything, it’s made me a better Catholic.

God bless

jesus g

 

[Mgray82]

Mgray,

Seek the mountain of understanding for information you want. Ask questions in a way that provide insight that you truly want answers. A formula for doing so would be…

My understanding of genetics is this…

My understanding of Original sin is this…

I was thinking the following…

What do you think of how I formulated this idea, are there things I don’t understand and could, do you have any insights that might help me form my conscience and understanding…

This might get my attention.

Coptic, what is the mountain of understanding?

If it’s the Church and the Church’s understanding of genetic disorders and original sin…can babies be born with a genetic disorder as a result of original sin?

If the mountain of understanding is not the Church you are free to dodge the question as you have thus far…

 

[CopticChristian]

For me it’s been very good. If anything, it’s made me a better Catholic.

God bless

jesus g

Jesus,

Praise for you Catholicity. You could have gone to a Methodist Church, become a member for a time, practiced Methodism and got the same results as seen here…

The Methodist Method

The members of the Oxford Holy Club were called Methodists because they practiced methods of holiness. These methods were fitted together “to make overcomers”. The significance of the method is very important, because it is “the method to Christian perfection”. John Wesley (the founder of Methodism) taught that “a Methodist is one that lives according to the method laid down in the Bible”.

These are the methods of holiness used by the Oxford Holy Club and the early Methodists.

“WWJD?” (from John Wesley’s diary)

“Whenever you are to do an action, consider how God did or would do the like, and do you imitate His example.”

General Rules as to Intention (from John Wesley’s diary)

1. In every act reflect on the end.
2. Begin every action in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
3. Begin every important work with prayer.
4. Do not leave off a duty because you are tempted to do it.
   General Rules for Employing time (from John Wesley’s diary)
5. Begin and end every day with God; sleep not immoderately.
6. Be diligent in your calling.
7. Employ all spare hours in religion, as able.
8. And all holidays (holy days).
9. Avoid drunkards and busybodies.
10. Avoid curiosity, and all useless employments and knowledge.
11. Examine yourself every night.
12. Never on any account pass a day without setting aside at least an hour for devotion.
13. Avoid all manner of passion.

I found a great many unclean thoughts arise in prayer or devotion, and discovered these temptations to it:

1. Too much addicting myself to light behaviour at all times.
2. Listening too much to idle talk, or reading vain plays or books.
3. Idleness, and lastly want of devotion, from which I perceive it is necessary:
   a. To labour for grave and modest carriage;
   b. To avoid vain and light company; and
   c. To entertain awful apprehensions of the presence of God.
   d. To avoid idleness, freedom with women and high seasoned meats;
   e. To resist the very beginnings of lust, not by arguing with them, but by thinking no more of it or by immediately going into company; lastly
   f. To use frequent and fervent prayer.

more to come in future postings for the lurkers who consider going to AA or a Methodist Church…going to AA=I am diseased and emerge foreverer diseased…going to a Methodist Church you are a sinner and emerged saved…not diseased…

 

[Mgray82]

Jesus,

Praise for you Catholicity. You could have gone to a Methodist Church, become a member for a time, practiced Methodism and got the same results as seen here…

more to come in future postings for the lurkers who consider going to AA or a Methodist Church…going to AA=I am diseased and emerge foreverer diseased…going to a Methodist Church you are a sinner and emerged saved…not diseased…

This is a horrible way to evangelize Methodists…

 

[CopticChristian]

This is a horrible way to evangelize Methodists…

Mgray,

I am not evangelizing anyone. Methodism and AA share common roots. If you propose, as others have that the root of problem is sin, then it is useful to know where these notions came from. They came from Protestant thought. You can get the same Methodism at a Methodist Church and since sin is the root evil, and finding Jesus as Andrew says is imperative, do you deny that Methodists find Jesus?

Methodism continued…

Temperance

The Oxford Methodists would practice temperance when eating. A list of rules from Wesley’s Diary:

As to Temperance, I resolve in eating,

1. Taste only of two flesh meals.
2. Only one slice of each.
3. At each meal, fix your quantity before you taste.
4. If possible help yourself last.
5. When I have port, only port and water.
6. Before you sit at full table, pray for help.
7. In company, only a cheese and roots.
8. After any excess, abridge the next meal.
9. Only three dishes of tea in the afternoon.
10. When sugar or cream in afternoon, no bread and butter.

Evidently the significance of this method of holiness would be that Wesley practiced control of the “flesh” through a written agreement he had with himself when he was not affected by emotion. He uses logic to determine what will be eaten before he will taste it and then get carried away. This written set of rules provides self control.

did you happen to notice that Methodism aims for self control. Isn’t that what addicts lack…self control and what AA attempts to get people to aim for…self control…this allows you to get a handle on your bad habits…

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic, what is the mountain of understanding?

If it’s the Church and the Church’s understanding of genetic disorders and original sin…can babies be born with a genetic disorder as a result of original sin?

If the mountain of understanding is not the Church you are free to dodge the question as you have thus far…

Mgray,

When you have the ability to formulate an intelligent question you will get an intelligent answer.

I provided you a format to address me.

If you cannot address me as I asked then I fear any answer for you will be meaningless coming from me. Let someone else tackle this question for you or try answering it yourself and I may include insights.

Here is something you should learn. Learn to recognize dysfunctional thinking and when you do make a decision as to whether or not you want to engage with dysfunctional thinking.

When I recognize dysfunctional thinking I dismiss myself from the conversation. It is my right to do so.

I have zero tolerance for drugs, excess drinking, dishonesty, dysfunctional thinking and I have boundaries that I have erected to maintain my sanity and integrity. Dysfunctional thinking is something that I learned to recognize long ago and when I see it I dismiss it and those that think it.

Your question on Antabuse was your attempt to ask a question and your desire for other than an answer caused me to lose interest in dialoguing with you since you do not seek answers.

The mountain you seek is found wherever you choose to find it. You lack respect for someone that has read the Catechism, has more Catholic experience than you, is older than you, understands Medical Science. If you reflect on your approach to what I offer you will see for yourself that you have caused me to feel sad for your situation and cause me to reflect on the lack of understanding that you have.

Do as you will, think as you will, ask questions in a way that merit an answer.

 

[Mgray82]

Mgray,

I am not evangelizing anyone. Methodism and AA share common roots. If you propose, as others have that the root of problem is sin, then it is useful to know where these notions came from. They came from Protestant thought. You can get the same Methodism at a Methodist Church and since sin is the root evil, and finding Jesus as Andrew says is imperative, do you deny that Methodists find Jesus?

Methodism continued…

did you happen to notice that Methodism aims for self control. Isn’t that what addicts lack…self control and what AA attempts to get people to aim for…self control…this allows you to get a handle on your bad habits…

My RCIA instructor must be lying when he says one of our purposes as being a Catholic is to evangelize and bear witness…

…or he’s telling the truth and you’re just a bad example…

 

[CopticChristian]

My RCIA instructor must be lying when he says one of our purposes as being a Catholic is to evangelize and bear witness…

…or he’s telling the truth and you’re just a bad example…

Mgray,

You may provide insights for yourself and others and tell me and others what you believe evangelization to be.

I believe it is to bear witness to the truth in honesty.

What do you believe it to be?

This is no mark of excellence however I have bee instrumental in bringing more than one non-Catholic, anti-Catholic, used to be Catholic back to the truth because of what I think, believe and how I live…I also know and tell the truth…

 

[Mgray82]

Mgray,

When you have the ability to formulate an intelligent question you will get an intelligent answer.

I provided you a format to address me.

If you cannot address me as I asked then I fear any answer for you will be meaningless coming from me. Let someone else tackle this question for you or try answering it yourself and I may include insights.

Here is something you should learn. Learn to recognize dysfunctional thinking and when you do make a decision as to whether or not you want to engage with dysfunctional thinking.

When I recognize dysfunctional thinking I dismiss myself from the conversation. It is my right to do so.

I have zero tolerance for drugs, excess drinking, dishonesty, dysfunctional thinking and I have boundaries that I have erected to maintain my sanity and integrity. Dysfunctional thinking is something that I learned to recognize long ago and when I see it I dismiss it and those that think it.

Your question on Antabuse was your attempt to ask a question and your desire for other than an answer caused me to lose interest in dialoguing with you since you do not seek answers.

The mountain you seek is found wherever you choose to find it. You lack respect for someone that has read the Catechism, has more Catholic experience than you, is older than you, understands Medical Science. If you reflect on your approach to what I offer you will see for yourself that you have caused me to feel sad for your situation and cause me to reflect on the lack of understanding that you have.

Do as you will, think as you will, ask questions in a way that merit an answer.

Anyway…

 

[Mgray82]

Mgray,

You may provide insights for yourself and others and tell me and others what you believe evangelization to be.

I believe it is to bear witness to the truth in honesty.

What do you believe it to be?

This is no mark of excellence however I have bee instrumental in bringing more than one non-Catholic, anti-Catholic, used to be Catholic back to the truth because of what I think, believe and how I live…I also know and tell the truth…

I disagree

 

[jesuspsr]

Jesus,

Praise for you Catholicity. You could have gone to a Methodist Church, become a member for a time, practiced Methodism and got the same results as seen here…

more to come in future postings for the lurkers who consider going to AA or a Methodist Church…going to AA=I am diseased and emerge foreverer diseased…going to a Methodist Church you are a sinner and emerged saved…not diseased…

No thank you. I don’t need to listen your gibberish.

 

[CopticChristian]

I disagree

Mgray,

This is progress, not perfection, and as long as there is progress there is hope. Next, if you choose to illuminate, tell why you disagree.


Methodism continued…

Accountability According to Grace Received

The Oxford Methodist would practice their religion in small groups using Dr. Horneck’s Rules for Religious Societies. The significance of this method of holiness was the spiritual fellowship bond that can only come from small groups and was something practiced by Christians since the first century, designed to “Flee the Wrath to Come” by watching over one another under the direction of a group leader. The group leader reports to his superiors the condition of his group members. A code of conduct is provided so members can give an account of their obedience.

To better understand how these methods of holiness worked together, let’s start with where they started. The entry point to the Methodist Societies was the Methodist Class Society. This was an open meeting and if someone was drawn to Methodism by prevenient grace one would start by visiting a “class”. Historically, on average after 2-3 years of meeting in a class society people would experience justifying grace and would desire to move onward. This next accountability step was the Methodist Band Society.  This was a small circle of 4-6 people grouped according to age, marital status, and sex.  **These groups were designed to draw people close to one another and though accountability and prayer bring healing from the consequences of sin. ** The design of this meeting was based on James 5:16: “Confess your faults to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed”

 Those who became leaders and would desire to go on to perfection in sanctifying grace might also be “selected” by John Wesley to enter the “Select Society”. This was a group that John Wesley would himself attend till at least the age of 85. Backsliders also had a place. The no one left behind attitude produced a special meeting called the Penitent Society, conducted on Saturday nights, apart from the Class and Band meetings usually held on Thursday nights

Meetings for accountability for sin…sound familiar?