C
Cat
Guest
CopticChristian, I think it’s wrong, and in fact, close to evil, that you are trying to cast doubts on AA and frighten or disillusion those for whom AA worked/is working.
Whether or not alcoholism can be accurately defined as a disease is still an open question and your arguments against the disease model are as valid as anyone else’s arguments in favor of the disease model.
But whether or not alcoholism is a disease, no one can deny that alcoholics die of causes directly related to their use of alcohol. Alcoholism is a serious condition that kills people and destroys families and society.
So IMO, anything, ANYTHING, that works and keeps an alcoholic away from alcohol is GOOD, and we as Christians need to encourage people, not discourage them, from doing what works.
IMO, based on my own experiences with weight issues and addictions to soda/sugar, a “recovery” from any addiction is tenuous, and the victorious person is, tragically, much too easily “toppled” and can fall back into their addiction.
For many years, I was friends with a “recovered” alcoholic who was devoted to AA. He had lost three of his children (they would have nothing to do with him) because of his addiction to beer and what it had done to their family life. The only daughter who was still involved with him was just a baby when he was in the throes of his addiction, so she had no memory of the terrible family situation. Even though this friend hadn’t had a drink for many years, he told me that he had to remain “ever vigilant,” and that he would never know until his death day whether he “made it” or not.
A year ago, I would have sworn that I would never go back to bad eating patterns. I had lost 80 pounds, looked great, felt great, and was wearing my daughter’s clothing. I was eating well, working out regularly, sleeping adequate hours, and living a very healthy, happy life.
But then came my dad’s cancer diagnosis, and I started eating again. I didn’t have time for the exercise anymore because of the drives to his hospital and sitting with him. I wasn’t sleeping well at all; even when I did go to bed at a good time, I would lie awake most of the night, or if I did fall asleep, I would wake up at 3 a.m. and finally just get up.
So now I’m about 25 pounds heavier than I was last year at this time. I feel like heck and all my smaller clothing is tight.
Interesting that my brother LOST 25 pounds during our dad’s illness and eventual death. Sigh.
My point is that my “recovery” from bad eating habits was toppled. I went back to my old ways because they were comforting to me.
With non-using alcoholics, I’m guessing that the same thing happens. Something happens, or some thought crosses into their brain, and it is enough to topple them from their abstinence and get them back into the grip of alcohol.
CopticChristian, I think that some of your comments on this forum could possibly be the stimulus that could possibly topple a non-using alcoholic. It’s one thing to present your views and state your case. It’s another thing to keep harping and harping on how bad a program is that HAS HELPED and IS HELPING some people.
Since you are a doctor, I’m sure you will agree that what is helpful for one patient is not helpful for another. For example, back when I was losing weight, my dietician told me about the important of “planning” my food intake, and all about how this circumvents the emotional side of the brain and takes away the emotional power of food.
Well, that worked great as long as I had a reasonably free schedule (which also helped with working out). But after I lost the weight, I started getting more piano gigs, and then came the diagnosis of my dad’s cancer, and I still had all those gigs, and the result was no more time for planning (or shopping or cooking or cleaning up after the cooking). I’ve been struggling for the last few months to get back to planning, and I’ve read books by all the latest fitness gurus (e.g., Bob Harper on Biggest Loser, etc.), and they all advocate planning.
And it doesn’t work for me because I honestly, truly don’t have time to plan/shop/cook/clean up. I’m not home much.
Yes, you could say that I could avoid CAF and spend that time planning! But the type of planning/shopping/cooking/cleaning up needed for diet is much longer than the time that I spend on here. And I usually get on CAF during odd moments during the workday.
So a few weeks ago, I decided to chuck the planning. Yes, that goes against ALL the evidence-based studies of the dieticians. But it simply isn’t working for ME. So I decided to do “moment-by-moment planning,” in which I confront each food situation and each mealtime as it comes, and plan (in advance) to make wise decisions in each of those situations.
I know what the good choices are and what the bad choices are. E.g., at Culvers, I know that a good decision is the snackpack, with a salad or soup (not cream) substituted for the fries. A bad decision is the Pork Tenderloin basket with fries and add some frozen custard concrete for a dessert. I like the snackpack–it’s not a “trial” to choose that instead of the pork tenderloin. I just have to decide in advance to make a wise decision.
And so far, this seems to be working for me. Hope it continues to work.
My point is, AA will work for some and not for others. And IMO, you should be glad when it works for some and not try to talk them out of their success **or cast doubts in their minds about whether the success will continue. **
For the others that AA doesn’t work for, you should be ready to help them find out what program or treatment WILL work.
Whether or not alcoholism can be accurately defined as a disease is still an open question and your arguments against the disease model are as valid as anyone else’s arguments in favor of the disease model.
But whether or not alcoholism is a disease, no one can deny that alcoholics die of causes directly related to their use of alcohol. Alcoholism is a serious condition that kills people and destroys families and society.
So IMO, anything, ANYTHING, that works and keeps an alcoholic away from alcohol is GOOD, and we as Christians need to encourage people, not discourage them, from doing what works.
IMO, based on my own experiences with weight issues and addictions to soda/sugar, a “recovery” from any addiction is tenuous, and the victorious person is, tragically, much too easily “toppled” and can fall back into their addiction.
For many years, I was friends with a “recovered” alcoholic who was devoted to AA. He had lost three of his children (they would have nothing to do with him) because of his addiction to beer and what it had done to their family life. The only daughter who was still involved with him was just a baby when he was in the throes of his addiction, so she had no memory of the terrible family situation. Even though this friend hadn’t had a drink for many years, he told me that he had to remain “ever vigilant,” and that he would never know until his death day whether he “made it” or not.
A year ago, I would have sworn that I would never go back to bad eating patterns. I had lost 80 pounds, looked great, felt great, and was wearing my daughter’s clothing. I was eating well, working out regularly, sleeping adequate hours, and living a very healthy, happy life.
But then came my dad’s cancer diagnosis, and I started eating again. I didn’t have time for the exercise anymore because of the drives to his hospital and sitting with him. I wasn’t sleeping well at all; even when I did go to bed at a good time, I would lie awake most of the night, or if I did fall asleep, I would wake up at 3 a.m. and finally just get up.
So now I’m about 25 pounds heavier than I was last year at this time. I feel like heck and all my smaller clothing is tight.
Interesting that my brother LOST 25 pounds during our dad’s illness and eventual death. Sigh.
My point is that my “recovery” from bad eating habits was toppled. I went back to my old ways because they were comforting to me.
With non-using alcoholics, I’m guessing that the same thing happens. Something happens, or some thought crosses into their brain, and it is enough to topple them from their abstinence and get them back into the grip of alcohol.
CopticChristian, I think that some of your comments on this forum could possibly be the stimulus that could possibly topple a non-using alcoholic. It’s one thing to present your views and state your case. It’s another thing to keep harping and harping on how bad a program is that HAS HELPED and IS HELPING some people.
Since you are a doctor, I’m sure you will agree that what is helpful for one patient is not helpful for another. For example, back when I was losing weight, my dietician told me about the important of “planning” my food intake, and all about how this circumvents the emotional side of the brain and takes away the emotional power of food.
Well, that worked great as long as I had a reasonably free schedule (which also helped with working out). But after I lost the weight, I started getting more piano gigs, and then came the diagnosis of my dad’s cancer, and I still had all those gigs, and the result was no more time for planning (or shopping or cooking or cleaning up after the cooking). I’ve been struggling for the last few months to get back to planning, and I’ve read books by all the latest fitness gurus (e.g., Bob Harper on Biggest Loser, etc.), and they all advocate planning.
And it doesn’t work for me because I honestly, truly don’t have time to plan/shop/cook/clean up. I’m not home much.
Yes, you could say that I could avoid CAF and spend that time planning! But the type of planning/shopping/cooking/cleaning up needed for diet is much longer than the time that I spend on here. And I usually get on CAF during odd moments during the workday.
So a few weeks ago, I decided to chuck the planning. Yes, that goes against ALL the evidence-based studies of the dieticians. But it simply isn’t working for ME. So I decided to do “moment-by-moment planning,” in which I confront each food situation and each mealtime as it comes, and plan (in advance) to make wise decisions in each of those situations.
I know what the good choices are and what the bad choices are. E.g., at Culvers, I know that a good decision is the snackpack, with a salad or soup (not cream) substituted for the fries. A bad decision is the Pork Tenderloin basket with fries and add some frozen custard concrete for a dessert. I like the snackpack–it’s not a “trial” to choose that instead of the pork tenderloin. I just have to decide in advance to make a wise decision.
And so far, this seems to be working for me. Hope it continues to work.
My point is, AA will work for some and not for others. And IMO, you should be glad when it works for some and not try to talk them out of their success **or cast doubts in their minds about whether the success will continue. **
For the others that AA doesn’t work for, you should be ready to help them find out what program or treatment WILL work.
