Aaron and the golden calf

  • Thread starter Thread starter myfavoritmartin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It seems we missed out on another part of the topic. The Israelites rose up and “amused themselves”. I remembered seeing this last week at agapebiblestudy.com .
The Israelites referred to the celebration surrounding the Golden Calf as “a feast for Yahweh” and identifies the idol as “Yahweh who brought them out of Egypt” in verse 5 but Moses clearly understands that this is “a god of gold” in verse 31 and a violation of the Covenant command not to worship idols. In addition, the Children of Israel were caught in the act of idol worship when "they rose up to amuse themselves", interpreted to mean a sexual orgy [see verses 5-6].
Click to expand...
In Egypt the worship of the Apis Bull involved fertility rites which included sexual orgies [reference verses 5-6]. The people wanted to give the invisible Yahweh a physical form like all other gods and so they combined Yahweh with the physical form of the god of Egypt’s major fertility cult. Nehemiah 9:18 seems to interpret the sin of the Golden Calf this way: "Even when they cast themselves a calf out of molten metal and said, ‘This is your God who brought you up from Egypt!’ and committed monstrous impieties, you ,in your great compassion did not abandon them in the desert…"; “the God” in this passage refers to Yahweh [also see 1 Kings 12:28].
Click to expand...
 
The thread seems to have broadened beyond just the golden calf idol, to include all sacred images.

God’s prohibitions against images are made with reference to His first commandment, (Ex. 20:2-3 "I am the LORD your God, … "You shall have no other gods before me.), clarifying it:

*Exodus 20:3-5 (Deut 5:8 also) "You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; **you shall not **bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,…”

Leviticus 26:1 "You shall make for yourselves no idols and erect no graven image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land, to bow down to them; for I am the LORD your God.

Deut. 4:15-19 Since you saw no form when the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely so that you do not act corruptly by making an **idol *for yourselves, in the form of …4:19 And when you look up to the heavens and see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, do not be led astray and bow down to them and serve them, things that the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples everywhere under heaven…

Images made for other purposes were not forbidden - and were even commanded by God. ( eg. Nu. 21 bronze serpent; Ex 37:17-24 lampstands; Ex 39:24-26 priestly garb)

myfavoritemartin, if you tend to bow down and serve or worship images, by all means get rid of all images you may have in your home (statues, pictures, etc.). As Catholics, we know images and statues are not gods; that they have absolutely no intrinsic power. It wouldn’t even occur to us to worship a statue. I remember being absolutely stunned the first time I heard Protestants accuse us of such a thing. That some continue to do so, even after they’ve had it explained to them, only indicates to me a bias of some sort. I accept that you may wish not to have images because of your interpretation of the relevant Scripture passages, but to accuse Catholics of “idolatry” because they interpret those passages differently from you, is to judge what takes place in our mind and heart - to accuse us of worshipping, bowing down and serving a statue as a god.

God did not forbid images (I bet I’d find lots in your home on walls, albums, magazines, etc.) - He forbad making them for the purposes of worship.

Nita
 
estesbob said:
You have shown verses condeming idol worshiping. No one is in disagreement with that. In fact I gave you statements form the Church over the centuries condemning idol worship in no uncertain terms. The problem it is your personal interperation that this forbids statues and images . There is no basis in Scipture for that, .
Click to expand...
SURE there is…
Deuteronomy 4:15-24
15 Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely, 16so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves, in the form of any figure—the likeness of male or female, 17the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, 18the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth. 19And when you look up to the heavens and see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, do not be led astray and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples everywhere under heaven. 20But the Lord has taken you and brought you out of the iron-smelter, out of Egypt, to become a people of his very own possession, as you are now.
21 The Lord was angry with me because of you, and he vowed that I should not cross the Jordan and that I should not enter the good land that the Lord your God is giving for your possession. 22For I am going to die in this land without crossing over the Jordan, but you are going to cross over to take possession of that good land. 23So be careful not to forget the covenant that the Lord your God made with you, and not to make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything that the Lord your God has forbidden you. 24For the Lord your God is a devouring fire, a jealous God.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
SURE there is…
Deuteronomy 4:15-24
15 Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely, 16so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves, in the form of any figure—the likeness of male or female, 17the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, 18the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth. 19And when you look up to the heavens and see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, do not be led astray and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples everywhere under heaven. 20But the Lord has taken you and brought you out of the iron-smelter, out of Egypt, to become a people of his very own possession, as you are now.
21 The Lord was angry with me because of you, and he vowed that I should not cross the Jordan and that I should not enter the good land that the Lord your God is giving for your possession. 22For I am going to die in this land without crossing over the Jordan, but you are going to cross over to take possession of that good land. 23So be careful not to forget the covenant that the Lord your God made with you, and not to make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything that the Lord your God has forbidden you. 24For the Lord your God is a devouring fire, a jealous God.
Click to expand...
This is about the third time you have posted this and of you totally ignore the context of it-the condemnation of Idol Worship. You ignore the fact that we see statues appoved AFTER this in Exodus, Ezekial and Kings. In fact in Kings it is God himself that directs that the ststues be made! Of course being you are shackled by Sola scriptura you ignore the fact that Statues adorned nearly every Christian Church from the Death of Christ to present . So are we to accpet you*** personal*** interpertation of Scripture or the interperation of Our Church and nearly every Christian who has went before us?
 
estesbob said:
In fact in Kings it is **God himself that directs **that the ststues be made
Click to expand...
Bob, This is key…God himself directs them, unlike the statues of Mary at every church and St Peter that everyone kisses at the Vatican…

IF I ADORED THESE STATUES I’D BE VERY SCARED!!!
 
estesbob said:
This is about the third time you have posted this and of you totally ignore the context of it-the condemnation of Idol Worship.
Click to expand...
Read the OP and post 2 that is not Idol worship! that golden calf represents YAHWEH…Nothing is out of context, it represented YAHWEH and it still made YAHWEH very very angry.
 
estesbob said:
your personal interperation that this forbids statues and images .

your*** personal*** interpertation we have to beleive that just about everybody
.
Click to expand...
Personal interpretation= the manner in which estesbob decided that the catholic church was the one true church (for him)…
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Bob, This is key…God himself directs them, unlike the statues of Mary at every church and St Peter that everyone kisses at the Vatican…

IF I ADORED THESE STATUES I’D BE VERY SCARED!!!
Click to expand...
Really? You worship a God who condemns people to eternal hellfire if they dont agree with your*** personal*** interperation of Scripture? You really need to cross the Tiber and rid yourself of all this anger and guilt.

BTW-as has been told you ad nauseum no one worships statues. If one wants to review this thread they will see your total cntibutin has been the regurgitate the same scripture passage over and over and totally ignore anything that refutes what you say. The whole discussion comes down to you insisting that every Chrisian who ever lived MUST accept your*** personal*** interpertation of Scripture. Having cast yourself upon the sea of sola scriptura no one, in your mind, can refute you because your interpertations are just as good (or better) than everyones elses.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Read the OP and post 2 that is not Idol worship! that golden calf represents YAHWEH…Nothing is out of context, it represented YAHWEH and it still made YAHWEH very very angry.
Click to expand...
I dont know of anyone who worship Golden Calfs-do you?
 
estesbob said:
Really? You worship a God who condemns people to eternal hellfire if they dont agree with your*** personal*** interperation of Scripture? You really need to cross the Tiber and rid yourself of all this anger and guilt.
Click to expand...
Where is my anger, I’ve none! only Love and compassion.

God shows what he thinks of the veneration of images, i’ve shown it straight from God’s written word.
estesbob said:
BTW-as has been told you ad nauseum no one worships statues.
Click to expand...
I suggest you read exodus 32 and review your churches interpretation of it, it isn’t only about worshipping.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Personal interpretation= the manner in which estesbob decided that the catholic church was the one true church (for him)…
Click to expand...
I dont have a personal interpertation. i just trust that the Church Jesus Christ founded will be the receptacle of the Truth, To not believe so is to beleive Jesus allowed HIS Church to be in error for 1,500 years and that salvation depends upon decoding a book that was not even compiled until 400 years after his death.

The ironic part is even if one ascribes to Sola Sciptura you are wrong. Even the Scripture you revere contradicts you. But your ***personal ***interpertation allows you to ignore it.
 
estesbob said:
I dont have a personal interpertation. i just trust that the Church Jesus Christ founded will be the receptacle of the Truth, To not believe so is to beleive Jesus allowed HIS Church to be in error for 1,500 years
Click to expand...
Or it’s to realize HIS church and your church are not exactly one in the same!
 
myfavoritmartin said:
I know people whom kiss the toe of Peters statue and lay flowers at the base of Mary’s. 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other.
Click to expand...
Count me in - I kiss the Statue of Virgin Mary, of Jesus, and I kiss a picture of my girlfriend 😉

I went to cemetary and stoodd in front of a (what you call the stone with RIP), prayed, and put flower around it.

Am I called “girlfriend/Stone” worshipper?
 
NotWorthy said:
Orgies?!?!
Click to expand...
I will contemplate what the orgies, had to do with the whole of it all…???, I think it has something to do with their shepherd being gone (moses up the mountain), (cat’s away mice will play)
 
water said:
Count me in - I kiss the Statue of Virgin Mary, of Jesus, and I kiss a picture of my girlfriend 😉

I went to cemetary and stoodd in front of a (what you call the stone with RIP), prayed, and put flower around it.

Am I called “girlfriend/Stone” worshipper?
Click to expand...
Well there was a time when i worshiped the Stones but that was a long time ago.

Seriously his arguments have now entered the Theatre of the Absurd,
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top