Abortion and death penalty come before climate change for church, Vatican official says

[_Abyssinia]

The Vatican official who wrote the first draft of the papal encyclical has said abortion and the death penalty still hold primacy over climate change as issues for the Catholic church, despite the pope’s ringing call for action on the environment.

As the pope moved on to New York for the second leg of his US tour, Cardinal Peter Turkson said personal issues of life and death still came first for the church, notwithstanding the Catholic leader’s efforts to get world leaders to fight climate change and poverty.

The cardinal, who is a key adviser to the pope, also said the Vatican had no plans to rid itself of holdings in fossil fuels, and that the encyclical should by no means be seen as a call by the pope to divest from coal, oil or gas.

theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/abortion-and-death-penalty-come-before-climate-change-for-church-vatican-official-says

 

[sarah_j]

theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/abortion-and-death-penalty-come-before-climate-change-for-church-vatican-official-says

So basically what the Cardinal is saying is that the Pope didn’t really
mean much of what he said to Congress.

 

[Johann_du_Toit]

Don’t remember reading in Laudatio Si that the Pope called for divestment from fossil fuels. Maybe he meant we should make more careful and intelligent use of them?

 

[larsont7]

Good to hear the Cardinal come out and say this, though it would be nice to hear our Holy Father say it as well. As far as the death penalty is concerned, compared to abortion it is such a miniscule problem and is not even considered an intrinsic evil per the Catholic Church while abortion is.

From a numbers perspective, 1414 convicted felons have been executed since 1976 (about 36 per year), while over 50,000,000 unborn children have been slaughtered since 1973 (about 136 per hour). And this does not count the millions killed by legalized abortion drugs.

No comparison. Not even close.

 

[Johann_du_Toit]

Good to hear the Cardinal come out and say this, though it would be nice to hear our Holy Father say it as well. As far as the death penalty is concerned, compared to abortion it is such a miniscule problem and is not even considered an intrinsic evil per the Catholic Church while abortion is.

From a numbers perspective, 1414 convicted felons have been executed since 1976 (about 36 per year), while over 50,000,000 unborn children have been slaughtered since 1973 (about 136 per hour). And this does not count the millions killed by legalized abortion drugs.

No comparison. Not even close.

True. The Church has a lot of life issues to consider, but not all of them carry the same wight.

But I doubt the media is willing to wait for around an hour or so for Cardinal Turkson to explain in detail the intricacy of the issues.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

So basically what the Cardinal is saying is that the Pope didn’t really
mean much of what he said to Congress.

your logic is mystifying! Taking good care of our environment is the message God gave us in Genesis and from that day forward. exactly HOW that is to be accomplished can be discussed and should be discussed. Abortion and the death penalty are two separate issues. Thou shalt not kill definitely takes precedence. Without life, there is no need for discussion. Abortion is never acceptable. The death penalty is still an undecided issue. Abortion kills the innocent.

 

[lax16]

your logic is mystifying! Taking good care of our environment is the message God gave us in Genesis and from that day forward. exactly HOW that is to be accomplished can be discussed and should be discussed. Abortion and the death penalty are two separate issues. Thou shalt not kill definitely takes precedence. Without life, there is no need for discussion. Abortion is never acceptable. The death penalty is still an undecided issue. Abortion kills the innocent.

The number of people in China dying prematurely from air pollution is shocking. 350,000-500,000 people!

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10555816/Chinas-airpocalypse-kills-350000-to-500000-each-year.html

 

[mikekle]

So basically what the Cardinal is saying is that the Pope didn’t really
mean much of what he said to Congress.

It certainly seems that way!? Im sure the Vatican, those who wrote the Popes speech, knew this address to Congress, the Senate, with all the SC justices there, they knew how important this was…and they choose to talk about the issues they felt were the most important…go figure???

 

[bibcat]

theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/abortion-and-death-penalty-come-before-climate-change-for-church-vatican-official-says

Why does His Holiness ignore the growing plague of same-sex “marriage?” Unlike abortion, the death penalty (which scripture supports!) and “climate change”, homosexuality is condemned throughout scripture. Thus, the Almighty must consider that a greater priority, if you believe (as the Pope must) that the Bible is divinely inspired. Francis’ logic can be quite difficult to fathom at times.

 

[sarah_j]

Why does His Holiness ignore the growing plague of same-sex “marriage?” Unlike abortion, the death penalty (which scripture supports!) and “climate change”, homosexuality is condemned throughout scripture. Thus, the Almighty must consider that a greater priority, if you believe (as the Pope must) that the Bible is divinely inspired. Francis’ logic can be quite difficult to fathom at times.

Just want to point out that while the actual word “abortion” may not
be found in the Bible, there *is *scriptural reference against abortion.

from the Catholic Catechism -
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.

*“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.” *
:angel1:

 

[sarah_j]

The number of people in China dying prematurely from air pollution is shocking. 350,000-500,000 people!

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10555816/Chinas-airpocalypse-kills-350000-to-500000-each-year.html

In the United States there were well over one million abortions last yr.
Over 57 million abortions since Roe v Wade.

The number of abortions in China are mind-boggling.
336 million in the last forty years.

nrlc.org/uploads/factsheets/FS01AbortionintheUS.pdf
thenewamerican.com/world-news/item/14845-china-reports-336-million-abortion-in-last-forty-years

 

[LongingSoul]

Good to hear the Cardinal come out and say this, though it would be nice to hear our Holy Father say it as well. As far as the death penalty is concerned, compared to abortion it is such a miniscule problem and is not even considered an intrinsic evil per the Catholic Church while abortion is.

From a numbers perspective, 1414 convicted felons have been executed since 1976 (about 36 per year), while over 50,000,000 unborn children have been slaughtered since 1973 (about 136 per hour). And this does not count the millions killed by legalized abortion drugs.

No comparison. Not even close.

The correlation is not one of numbers but of attitude. The death penalty reinforces the false sense that human beings have the capacity to take anothers life on principle when it was only ever permitted by natural law and God to protect people from the problem of an unjust aggressor. It is that false sense that allows for the scourge of abortion.

 

[SMH_2015]

The number of people in China dying prematurely from air pollution is shocking. 350,000-500,000 people!

And how many in the US? I would think a fraction of that. Pope Francis would do far better directing his global warming speech to China & India.

As for not mentioning abortion, perhaps the Vatican feels this is a “dead issue” (no pun intended) in the US, at least politically…?

 

[Colorad007]

As for not mentioning abortion, perhaps the Vatican feels this is a “dead issue” (no pun intended) in the US, at least politically…?

It is one of the most salient issues of the presidential campaign and the Congress right now.

 

[bibcat]

It is one of the most salient issues of the presidential campaign and the Congress right now.

Yes, and that’s an unhappy legacy of the Roe v. Wade decision. For over 40 years abortion has poisoned the political debate in this country, thanks to that unhappy decision. If Roe had gone the other way, and abortion were left to the states, we would have long reached a political and social equilibrium regarding abortion, as Europe has. Note that the rancorous “pro-life” and “pro-choice” battles that are a perennial feature of politics in the USA don’t exist in Europe. That’s because it wasn’t prematurely forced upon their nations by a High Court.

 

[bibcat]

Just want to point out that while the actual word “abortion” may not
be found in the Bible, there *is *scriptural reference against abortion.

from the Catholic Catechism -
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.

*“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.” *
:angel1:

But you’ve quoted the Catechism, not scripture.

 

[lax16]

And how many in the US? I would think a fraction of that. Pope Francis would do far better directing his global warming speech to China & India.

As for not mentioning abortion, perhaps the Vatican feels this is a “dead issue” (no pun intended) in the US, at least politically…?

You make an excellent point.

I can’t emphasize this enough: pro-choice people do not want to hear the word abortion. They become defensive, angry and shut down. The conversation stops.

Pope Francis is talking about the issues we can all agree on so that the conversation will keep flowing! If he can get pro choice individuals to dialogue about human rights on a basic level then there is hope we can get the conversation to the next level.

I have angry, pro choice people in my life and they LOVE Pope Francis. They are listening to him and are not defensive. The Holy Spirit is working in their lives. I know it because I have seen it among people with the most hardened of hearts.

I don’t think the Vatican thinks it’s a dead issue at all. They are coming at it from a more palatable angle for those who are pro abortion.

 

[lax16]

In the United States there were well over one million abortions last yr.
Over 57 million abortions since Roe v Wade.

The number of abortions in China are mind-boggling.
336 million in the last forty years.

nrlc.org/uploads/factsheets/FS01AbortionintheUS.pdf
thenewamerican.com/world-news/item/14845-china-reports-336-million-abortion-in-last-forty-years

Every lost life is tragic.

If we can engage pro choicers and get them to discuss that dying from air pollution is an avoidable tragedy, we are moving the discussion towards the plight of the unborn and the avoidable tragedy of abortion.

ALL life is sacred. That is where the conversation is heading.

 

[sarah_j]

Just want to point out that while the actual word “abortion” may not
be found in the Bible, there is scriptural reference against abortion.

from the Catholic Catechism -
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.”

But you’ve quoted the Catechism, not scripture.

I quoted the Catechism which quoted scripture.

Check out the link to section 2270 and click on footnotes #72 and 73 to see
the Biblical citations.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7Z.HTM

 

[sarah_j]

I can’t emphasize this enough: pro-choice people do not want to hear the word abortion. They become defensive, angry and shut down. The conversation stops.

Pope Francis is talking about the issues we can all agree on so that the conversation will keep flowing! If he can get pro choice individuals to dialogue about human rights on a basic level then there is hope we can get the conversation to the next level.

I have angry, pro choice people in my life and they LOVE Pope Francis. They are listening to him and are not defensive. The Holy Spirit is working in their lives. I know it because I have seen it among people with the most hardened of hearts.

I don’t think the Vatican thinks it’s a dead issue at all. They are coming at it from a more palatable angle for those who are pro abortion.

I talk to angry pro-abortionists and atheists every day and they “love” Pope Francis because they
think he is giving tacit approval to same sex marriage and is moving towards an
acceptance of abortion and contraception by the Catholic Church.

 I think it's wishful thinking to believe their hearts are being opened.

They merely applaud what they perceive as a chink in the armor of the Catholic Church.
Softening the message of the Church merely emboldens those who oppose its
teachings.

Praying for these people is the only answer.