Abortion and death penalty come before climate change for church, Vatican official says

[lax16]

I talk to angry pro-abortionists and atheists every day and they “love” Pope Francis because they
think he is giving tacit approval to same sex marriage and is moving towards an
acceptance of abortion and contraception by the Catholic Church.

 I think it's wishful thinking to believe their hearts are being opened.

They merely applaud what they perceive as a chink in the armor of the Catholic Church.
Softening the message of the Church merely emboldens those who oppose its
teachings.

Praying for these people is the only answer.

The people in my life, family member, co-worker and friend, do not feel that way. They are asking me questions and are open to the church’s teaching on these matters.

I know their hearts are being opened, it is not wishful thinking. I cannot predict how things will turn out. That is not for me to worry about. I can be there to talk if they want to.

Nobody is softening the message of the church. It is just not the first thing being said. Everyone knows where the Catholic Church stands on these issues. The Pope is trying to find common ground.

Yes, we must pray for those who are involved in abortion and SSM! And for Catholics who may not believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church and the Pope.

 

[mikekle]

I have angry, pro choice people in my life and they LOVE Pope Francis. They are listening to him and are not defensive.

Yes, this is definitely true, but for the wrong reasons, I also have many non-religious friends, visiting FB after the popes speeches opened my eyes, all these people are loving him because he is not saying anything they disagree with. One friend of mine shared something from one of her friends, it had been shared and liked hundreds of times, they were celebrating the fact that the Pope talked about the importance of nature, the planet and not on ‘old fashioned’ ideas like homosexuality, abortion, etc, they are under the impression the church is getting more progressive…??

If he had mentioned the recent SSM issue and made it CLEAR what the church thinks about that, I have a feeling not so many people would be loving him so much.

Isnt it kind of strange, the leader of the catholic church comes to probably the most materialistic, hedonistic nation on the planet and almost no one is ‘up in arms’ in disagreement about ANYTHING he said LOL That says alot imo.

 

[Songcatcher]

Isnt it kind of strange, the leader of the catholic church comes to probably the most materialistic, hedonistic nation on the planet and almost no one is ‘up in arms’ in disagreement about ANYTHING he said LOL That says alot imo.

You must not have visited many conservative message boards during the Pope’s visit. I looked at Free Republic and a few others and they were definitely “up in arms.” Every thread about the Pope on FR devolved into some of the nastiest language I’ve ever seen. It made me sick.

I haven’t talked to any people from the left who are not aware of the Pope’s position on SSM or abortion. Even on left-wing message boards, the threads about the Pope always acknowledge those positions but they don’t devolve into nastiness and name-calling. (Not that I’ve seen anyway and I have checked.) I think the Christian left, in particular, is just really happy to see the issues they care about (poverty, the environment, etc) get this much attention.

 

[lax16]

Yes, this is definitely true, but for the wrong reasons, I also have many non-religious friends, visiting FB after the popes speeches opened my eyes, all these people are loving him because he is not saying anything they disagree with. One friend of mine shared something from one of her friends, it had been shared and liked hundreds of times, they were celebrating the fact that the Pope talked about the importance of nature, the planet and not on ‘old fashioned’ ideas like homosexuality, abortion, etc, they are under the impression the church is getting more progressive…??

If he had mentioned the recent SSM issue and made it CLEAR what the church thinks about that, I have a feeling not so many people would be loving him so much.

Isnt it kind of strange, the leader of the catholic church comes to probably the most materialistic, hedonistic nation on the planet and almost no one is ‘up in arms’ in disagreement about ANYTHING he said LOL That says alot imo.

I have had to stop going on to my Facebook because of all the craziness.

I do understand what you are saying. However, my mother-in-law is engaging in genuine conversation about Catholicism without hatred. A small miracle.

My childhood friend is open to hearing what the Pope has to say. Another small miracle.

My co-worker is wanting to engage in conversation, miraculous.

All three of these women have know-it-all type personalities and it’s truly amazing they are ASKING questions. They are asking me for clarification on the teachings of the Catholic Church. They are not TELLING me about the teachings of the church.

I do know there are people that are using the Pope’s subtle messages and twisting and turning them every which way. It is very frustrating!!!

I just want to let people know that there is much good coming from the Pope’s gentle approach. We should rejoice, as heaven does, for every one that repents.

 

[canis73]

Back when he was a Cardinal, Francis used to be very circumspect. It was very rare to see him laugh, or even smile.

For those of us who had the fortune of knowing him back then, he seems like a total different person both in attitude and vitality.

Recently, I heard a close friend of him say that he had noticed this too and asked him why the change. The Pope answered that he felt the Holy Ghost teaching him how to smile. That he felt he had been able to do so for the first time in his life, after his election. An so believes that joy and love are the way to deliver the message.

You won`t see strong divisive stances during his papacy imo, but common ground upon which the Church might be able to open hearts and ears that were closed till now.

Whenever I read bitter catholics complain about this or that, this anecdote comes to mind.

 

[lax16]

Back when he was a Cardinal, Francis used to be very circumspect. It was very rare to see him laugh, or even smile.

For those of us who had the fortune of knowing him back then, he seems like a total different person both in attitude and vitality.

Recently, I heard a close friend of him say that he had noticed this too and asked him why the change. The Pope answered that he felt the Holy Ghost teaching him how to smile. That he felt he had been able to do so for the first time in his life, after his election. An so believes that joy and love are the way to deliver the message.

You won`t see strong divisive stances during his papacy imo, but common ground upon which the Church might be able to open hearts and ears that were closed till now.

Whenever I read bitter catholics complain about this or that, this anecdote comes to mind.

Wonderful insight to the Pope’s personality! What else could bring true joy to a person other than the Lord?

I agree that a message delivered in joy and love is what non-believers need to be open to the gospel.

 

[Songcatcher]

I do understand what you are saying. However, my mother-in-law is engaging in genuine conversation about Catholicism without hatred. A small miracle.

I loved the story you told about your mother-in-law in the thread I started the other day. The one about the dream she had. It makes me smile every time I think about it.

My mother was raised in the south during a period of severe anti-catholicism. She has evolved since then but not as much as I would like. The other day we were talking about the Pope’s visit and she said “I really like this Pope.” I almost dropped the phone!

 

[SuperLuigi]

So basically what the Cardinal is saying is that the Pope didn’t really
mean much of what he said to Congress.

No, it just means those make lame excuses to vote for the Democrats and the Labour Party don’t have a leg to stand on.

They’re not fooling God anyways. :nope:

 

[lax16]

I loved the story you told about your mother-in-law in the thread I started the other day. The one about the dream she had. It makes me smile every time I think about it.

Thank you for that, Songcatcher. You know, it still makes me smile too. And if people only knew how anti-Catholic she has been all these years. The other popes just didn’t “do it for her”. I don’t get it, but hey! I’ll take it!

My mother was raised in the south during a period of severe anti-catholicism. She has evolved since then but not as much as I would like. The other day we were talking about the Pope’s visit and she said “I really like this Pope.” I almost dropped the phone!

I love it!

See, this is what I’m talkin’ about!

 

[Thomas_White]

Why does His Holiness ignore the growing plague of same-sex “marriage?” Unlike abortion, the death penalty (which scripture supports!) and “climate change”, homosexuality is condemned throughout scripture. Thus, the Almighty must consider that a greater priority, if you believe (as the Pope must) that the Bible is divinely inspired. Francis’ logic can be quite difficult to fathom at times.

It would seem the Pope’s message to Congress and to the U.S. is pastoral, and that his approach is not to harangue or to condemn but rather to attempt to draw people closer to the teachings of Christ and salvation. That this is not the perspective of some Catholics is clear enough, and I believe the Pope thinks this needs to change if the U.S. Church is to thrive.

 

[sallybutler]

One never knows which seeds will bloom

 

[lax16]

It would seem the Pope’s message to Congress and to the U.S. is pastoral, and that his approach is not to harangue or to condemn but rather to attempt to draw people closer to the teachings of Christ and salvation. That this is not the perspective of some Catholics is clear enough, and I believe the Pope thinks this needs to change if the U.S. Church is to thrive.

 

[lax16]

One never knows which seeds will bloom

Yes! We must have faith and pray that the seeds fall on to fertile soil.

 

[Ender]

I think the Christian left, in particular, is just really happy to see the issues they care about (poverty, the environment, etc) get this much attention.

The “issues” one expects to hear a pope discuss are moral ones, not political ones.

Ender

 

[Latias]

Yes! We must have faith and pray that the seeds fall on to fertile soil.

I have had to stop going on to my Facebook because of all the craziness.

I do understand what you are saying. However, my mother-in-law is engaging in genuine conversation about Catholicism without hatred. A small miracle.

My childhood friend is open to hearing what the Pope has to say. Another small miracle.

My co-worker is wanting to engage in conversation, miraculous.

All three of these women have know-it-all type personalities and it’s truly amazing they are ASKING questions. They are asking me for clarification on the teachings of the Catholic Church. They are not TELLING me about the teachings of the church.

I do know there are people that are using the Pope’s subtle messages and twisting and turning them every which way. It is very frustrating!!!

I just want to let people know that there is much good coming from the Pope’s gentle approach. We should rejoice, as heaven does, for every one that repents.

Some conservatives may say that without stressing orthodoxy and genuine morality (such as a focus on the family and opposition against same sex marriage and abortion), Pope Francis would not provide the seeds with fertile soil.

A Catholic should rejoice at those who have been softened by Pope Francis, instead of railing at him for endorsing a “communist” (Dorothy Day) and speaking about abortion in mitigated, oblique terms. As for me, I am so disillusioned concerning the Church and power of the Spirit, that I think I am beyond redemption now. And no, stressing abortion and gay marriage has no allure to me at all, since I see those issues as the refuge of moral scoundrels and hypocrites (irrespective of whether abortion is actually immoral or not).

Maybe I would be more receptive again if I could see more joy and less partisanship, but I suppose much of it is my fault for hanging around here in the “World News” section of this forum.

 

[lax16]

Some conservatives may say that without stressing orthodoxy and genuine morality (such as a focus on the family and opposition against same sex marriage and abortion), Pope Francis would not provide the seeds with fertile soil.

I have heard this as well. I understand, but I disagree. Those of us already committed to orthodoxy know what to do. We need to let others begin to hear the Truth and they cannot jump in where we are at. The Pope is right - we need to meet people where they are, not where they should be.

A Catholic should rejoice at those who have been softened by Pope Francis, instead of railing at him for endorsing a “communist” (Dorothy Day) and speaking about abortion in mitigated, oblique terms. As for me, I am so disillusioned concerning the Church and power of the Spirit, that I think I am beyond redemption now. And no, stressing abortion and gay marriage has no allure to me at all, since I see those issues as the refuge of moral scoundrels and hypocrites (irrespective of whether abortion is actually immoral or not).

Dear Latias, why are you disillusioned?

Why do you say you are beyond redemption?

Maybe I would be more receptive again if I could see more joy and less partisanship, but I suppose much of it is my fault for hanging around here in the “World News” section of this forum.

Yes, we can become frustrated when hearing the opinions of others. Look for joy in Jesus, not people. Remember, we Catholics are a motley crew!

 

[Songcatcher]

The people in my life, family member, co-worker and friend, do not feel that way. They are asking me questions and are open to the church’s teaching on these matters.

I know their hearts are being opened, it is not wishful thinking. I cannot predict how things will turn out. That is not for me to worry about. I can be there to talk if they want to.

I am not at all surprised that your friends and family are talking to you about the Church. Reading your posts in this and other threads, you are undoubtedly one of the kindest people I have ever had the pleasure to encounter. Your friends and co-workers are very lucky. I bet you could convert more people than Pope Francis! (And I love Pope Francis so that’s really saying something.)

 

[lax16]

I am not at all surprised that your friends and family are talking to you about the Church. Reading your posts in this and other threads, you are undoubtedly one of the kindest people I have ever had the pleasure to encounter. Your friends and co-workers are very lucky. I bet you could convert more people than Pope Francis! (And I love Pope Francis so that’s really saying something.)

Wow. Thank you. :blushing:

You are too kind, Songcatcher.

 

[Latias]

Dear Latias, why are you disillusioned?

Why do you say you are beyond redemption?

Yes, we can become frustrated when hearing the opinions of others. Look for joy in Jesus, not people. Remember, we Catholics are a motley crew!

Over the last few months, I became disillusioned because of the Church’s historical stances on several politic issues. During my conversion, my political fervor significantly waned, but I realized during the last few months (late April, early May this year) it disrespected every political aspiration (even though it does not seem attainable in the short or medium term) that I believe that was worth pursuing. (During my conversion, I was truly apolitical, but I never fully relinquished my previous ideology and my sympathies for it because I found nothing that could fill the vacuum formed during conversion as I obviously retained my skepticism towards the current politic system.) That left me a very broken and bitter woman, although I could find joy and amusement elsewhere. Because of that, I gravitated back to MLism and I now consider myself loyal to the principles and discipline of MLism and focus much of my energy into recognizing its accomplishments, defending it against scurrilous accusations, and venerating those who sacrificed to defend and advance it, as opposed to being a Catholic. I do not go to Mass or Confession anymore. It is perhaps the only thing (not Catholicism) that keeps me from outright nihilism as it gives me a palpable vision that allows nations and peoples to live in peace and dignity.

From what I said, I doubt I could find any Catholic that would actually sympathize or empathize with me. I am encircled and isolated at Kiev, and I cannot break out. I now feel lonely when I go to Mass that I could find few people that sympathize with me that it is my assessment that it is not worth going. Go ahead and berate me for what I said above, but be aware that it would only likely push me away.

But before that, I had a few spiritual experiences when I felt that I could never truly merit God’s grace and that I would never truly be an effective witness for Christ.

There was a time where I was truly pro-life, but not in the sense that I supported pro-life political causes. I did not vote in 2012, largely due to my contempt of the current political system, but I was never under the impression that voting for Barack Obama was a mortal sin.

 

[lax16]

Over the last few months, I became disillusioned because of the Church’s historical stances on several politic issues. During my conversion, my political fervor significantly waned, but I realized during the last few months (late April, early May this year) it disrespected every political aspiration (even though it does not seem attainable in the short or medium term) that I believe that was worth pursuing. (During my conversion, I was truly apolitical, but I never fully relinquished my previous ideology and my sympathies for it because I found nothing that could fill the vacuum formed during conversion as I obviously retained my skepticism towards the current politic system.) That left me a very broken and bitter woman, although I could find joy and amusement elsewhere. Because of that, I gravitated back to MLism and I now consider myself loyal to the principles and discipline of MLism and focus much of my energy into recognizing its accomplishments, defending it against scurrilous accusations, and venerating those who sacrificed to defend and advance it, as opposed to being a Catholic. I do not go to Mass or Confession anymore. It is perhaps the only thing (not Catholicism) that keeps me from outright nihilism as it gives me a palpable vision that allows nations and peoples to live in peace and dignity.

Greetings, Latias! What is MLism?

From what I said, I doubt I could find any Catholic that would actually sympathize or empathize with me. I am encircled and isolated at Kiev, and I cannot break out. I now feel lonely when I go to Mass that I could find few people that sympathize with me that it is my assessment that it is not worth going. Go ahead and berate me for what I said above, but be aware that it would only likely push me away.

I will not berate you. I am so sorry you feel isolated.

But before that, I had a few spiritual experiences when I felt that I could never truly merit God’s grace and that I would never truly be an effective witness for Christ.

Many of us feel that way.

There was a time where I was truly pro-life, but not in the sense that I supported pro-life political causes. I did not vote in 2012, largely due to my contempt of the current political system, but I was never under the impression that voting for Barack Obama was a mortal sin.

I have not always supported pro-life causes. I have started to become more involved over the years. Knowing what we do now about abortion, it makes sense to vote for pro life candidates, don’t you think?

Are you in the U.S.?