Abortion and Excommunication - Full Knowledge/Abortifacients

  • Thread starter Thread starter sealabeag
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

sealabeag

Guest
My second question in this forum in a row!

So, I know that procuring or helping another to procure an abortion carries an automatic excommunication. However, I’m wondering how does knowledge of the sin affect this, if at all?
We know that for a sin to be mortal it must have full knowledge, consent and grave matter. What if someone procures an abortion but believes it to be ok, for whatever reason - poor catechesis etc.? Does it still carry an excommunication?
And secondly, if knowledge of the sin doesn’t matter, and it carries an excommunication regardless, does that mean that abortifacient birth control also carries an excommunication? I guess the problem there is that the abortion could take place at such an early stage in pregnancy that one wouldn’t even know it had occured, so that would seem a grey area, but I’m curious nonetheless.

Thanks.
 
and in the extent if someone know that the Church said it is murder, knowing or not the excommunication automatic, but believe it is the right choice anyway, is the excommunication still take place?
 
sealabeag said:
And secondly, if knowledge of the sin doesn’t matter, and it carries an excommunication regardless, does that mean that abortifacient birth control also carries an excommunication? I guess the problem there is that the abortion could take place at such an early stage in pregnancy that one wouldn’t even know it had occured, so that would seem a grey area, but I’m curious nonetheless.
Click to expand...
Unless something very bizarre were to happen, it could never be proven that an abortion had actually taken place, only that the conditions were there for it to happen. You can’t have an excommunication based on “maybe something happened and maybe it didn’t”.

This is in no way to condone the use of abortifacient birth control. As I have said elsewhere on this forum, even if we were to secure the legal protection of the unborn, catechizing the larger society on this issue is going to be a formidable task, one at which we may not succeed. Affluent modern-day Western civilization has come to rely upon free access to near-foolproof, efficient, medical birth control, and many of these methods are potentially abortifacient. Put another way, women can now absolutely control their fertility, and children come only when they are “wanted”, and in the “quantities” desired. Just like placing an order on Amazon.

Of course, the flip side of this is that the eventual extinction of this society is ensured, replenished only by immigration and higher birth rates among those who choose not to contracept themselves out of existence.
 
sealabeag said:
However, I’m wondering how does knowledge of the sin affect this, if at all?
Click to expand...
One cannot “accidently” commit mortal sin, nor can one be “unknowingly” excommunication. You have to know it is grave sin and that there is an penalty of excommunication, do it intentionally.
sealabeag said:
that abortifacient birth control also carries an excommunication?
Click to expand...
“Plan B” or “Morning After Pill” or “RU486” all are grave matter, but, the same thing applies. Knowledge and intent. There are women who are traumatized, who are pressured, who take these things without full consent.
 
Ok very good, this is what I wanted to know - so a person cannot be excommunicated unless they know that the sin is grave and carries excommunication?
Can anyone else confirm this?
 
See the Vatican link posted above.

You can look up all of Canon Law for yourself there 🙂
 
HomeschoolDad said:
Of course, the flip side of this is that the eventual extinction of this society is ensured, replenished only by immigration and higher birth rates among those who choose not to contracept themselves out of existence.
Click to expand...
And that’s only the natural consequence. There’s every reason to expect divine consequences as well.
 
MiserereMeiDei said:
Of course, the flip side of this is that the eventual extinction of this society is ensured, replenished only by immigration and higher birth rates among those who choose not to contracept themselves out of existence.
Click to expand...
Almighty God might well forgive the sin — invincible ignorance, lack of knowledge, “compassion on the crowd”, and so on — but nature and society are far less forgiving. Those who choose to have few children, or none at all, should realize that ultimately, they will be outnumbered, outvoted, and will be competing for resources (both natural and man-made) with those who have more children. I myself, through past sinful use of NFP, and of an age and circumstances that preclude fathering any more children, have contributed to that scenario.

Look at Japan as an example of a society that is not replenishing itself, and for cultural reasons does not encourage mass immigration of people who differ both culturally and ethnically from the native population.
Click to expand...
 
So who will apply this law. Remember the church is for sinners if you get rid of us what’s the point of the church.
 
You mean apply the law of excommunication? That is from one’s Bishop.

Excommunication does not “get rid of” people, it is a discipline to help guard the soul and help the person be healed of sin.
 
Is your idea that the Church hand wave away willful grave sins by the impenitent for fear no one actually adheres to the faith and morals of the Church? One might ask, what would be the point of the Church?
 
sealabeag said:
so a person cannot be excommunicated unless they know that the sin is grave and carries excommunication?
Can anyone else confirm this?
Click to expand...
The Code of Canon Law section 1323

Can. 1323 The following are not subject to a penalty when they have violated a law or precept:

1/ a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age;

2/ a person who without negligence was ignorant that he or she violated a law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;

3/ a person who acted due to physical force or a chance occurrence which the person could not foresee or, if foreseen, avoid;

4/ a person who acted coerced by grave fear, even if only relatively grave, or due to necessity or grave inconvenience unless the act is intrinsically evil or tends to the harm of souls;

5/ a person who acted with due moderation against an unjust aggressor for the sake of legitimate self defense or defense of another;

6/ a person who lacked the use of reason, without prejudice to the prescripts of cann. 1324, §1, n. 2 and 1325;

7/ a person who without negligence thought that one of the circumstances mentioned in nn. 4 or 5 was present.
 
This isn’t saying they must know they will be excommunicated. It means they have to be ignorant of the prohibition.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top