Abortion and politics

[estesbob]

Abortion is death, no abortion is life, that is black and white. Every other issue you bring into this is debatable.

But yes abortion is black and white. I hope that you realize that by your arguing that it is ok to vote for a pro abortion candidate is the same as supporting abortion, no matter how much you try to muddle up the argument.

Its black and white in more ways than one. Blacks make up 12% of the population but procure 40% of the abortions per year in this country. Support of abortion is patently racist.

 

[CMatt25]

The argument you are trying to make that pro lifers do not work towards less abortion is another way of trying to ease the guilt of choosing a party over life.

Every pro lifer I know work towards reducing abortions and at the same time understanding what the church teaches, that it is killing a human being. If you really believe what the church teaches that it is killing a human being, how in the world can you accept and try to excuse it?

You must not know those who scoff at public programs to help in aiding the mother and child after birth. I ran into one of them just recently right here on CAF.

Because I understand the gray various people of faith see on what occurs at the moment of conception. And apparently I guess unlike you I would rather continue living in a democracy of various faiths rather than in a theocracy. And not force my faith onto everyone else. I know he’s not a Catholic either by the standards of many on CAF despite the Church teaching he is. But Joe Biden can explain it better than I. He gave a great explanation during the 2008 campaign. Maybe check out what JFK had to say a half century ago as well about Rome dictating American politics. God bless.

 

[dmelosi]

You must not know those who scoff at public programs to help in aiding the mother and child after birth. I ran into one of them just recently right here on CAF.

Because I understand the gray various people of faith see on what occurs at the moment of conception. And apparently I guess unlike you I would rather continue living in a democracy of various faiths rather than in a theocracy. And not force my faith onto everyone else. I know he’s not a Catholic either by the standards of many on CAF despite the Church teaching he is. But Joe Biden can explain it better than I. He gave a great explanation during the 2008 campaign. Maybe check out what JFK had to say a half century ago as well about Rome dictating American politics. God bless.

No matter how much you or Pelosi or Biden try to change it, abortion is killing a human being. You do much harm in trying to argue that is ok.

 

[CMatt25]

Its the standard Democrat talking point. “Pro-lifers only care about the child until its born”. Of course it utter nonsense but ,when trying to defend the indefensible ,nonsense is about all one can offer

You missed elsewhere how irritated I am with the Dems too? Talk to Ridgerunner about programs to help support the mother and child after birth. Maybe you can bring him/her over to your side. But in the meantime if you want good talking points how about the poster who said pro-choicers want it so “women can beat their children senseless anytime they want” Or “they are especially for people killing their chidren in third world countries as it cuts down on the number of black brown and yellow children born into the world.” That one even attempted to label pro-choicers as racist too. But oh yeah those points would be attributed to you.

Peace

 

[CMatt25]

Abortion is death, no abortion is life, that is black and white. Every other issue you bring into this is debatable.

But yes abortion is black and white. I hope that you realize that by your arguing that it is ok to vote for a pro abortion candidate is the same as supporting abortion, no matter how much you try to muddle up the argument.

Oh my just when I thought I had heard it all. It gets even sillier. Our belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception is black and white but everything else is debatable?

Huh? We have no proof just our faith and belief that the human soul has entered the body right at the moment of conception. But human beings denied health insurance because they have a pre-existing condition. Or someone sick and their insurance won’t cover something. Or someone has to choose between food and medication because they can’t afford both. Or someone homeless or hungry or thirsty.

The people Jesus actually talked about serving and taking care of are somehow debatable? But a word He never mentioned is not. I have now heard it all. Well God bless you and peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Its black and white in more ways than one. Blacks make up 12% of the population but procure 40% of the abortions per year in this country. Support of abortion is patently racist.

Wow estesbob another talking point?

 

[dmelosi]

Oh my just when I thought I had heard it all. It gets even sillier. Our belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception is black and white but everything else is debatable?

So now you call the Catechism of the Catholic Church silly? It clearly says that abortion is killing a human being.

Huh? We have no proof just our faith and belief that the human soul has entered the body right at the moment of conception. But human beings denied health insurance because they have a pre-existing condition. Or someone sick and their insurance won’t cover something. Or someone has to choose between food and medication because they can’t afford both. Or someone homeless or hungry or thirsty.

I did not say any of these issues weren’t important and certainly need change. You are saying things that I have never said or even hinted at. You brought them up to change the subject on abortion.

The people Jesus actually talked about serving and taking care of are somehow debatable? But a word He never mentioned is not. I have now heard it all. Well God bless you and peace.

I never said this, again you are making things up to condone the promotion of abortion.

 

[dmelosi]

Wow estesbob another talking point?

A non disputed statistic makes a very good talking point.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

You must not know those who scoff at public programs to help in aiding the mother and child after birth. I ran into one of them just recently right here on CAF.

Because I understand the gray various people of faith see on what occurs at the moment of conception. And apparently I guess unlike you I would rather continue living in a democracy of various faiths rather than in a theocracy. And not force my faith onto everyone else. I know he’s not a Catholic either by the standards of many on CAF despite the Church teaching he is. But Joe Biden can explain it better than I. He gave a great explanation during the 2008 campaign. Maybe check out what JFK had to say a half century ago as well about Rome dictating American politics. God bless.

If “dictating” religious belief is wrong, then why is murder illegal at all? Why is theft? These are religious beliefs that every country “imposes” on everyone. How come abortion is different? Once again, I believe it’s “out of sight, out of mind”. You can’t see the baby, so you can pretend he doesn’t have rights. And you disgustingly go so far as insisting that Jesus didn’t include the unborn when he said “the least of these”. How much “least” can you get than a helpless embryo in his mother’s womb in danger of destruction?

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Oh my just when I thought I had heard it all. It gets even sillier. Our belief that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception is black and white but everything else is debatable?

Huh? We have no proof just our faith and belief that the human soul has entered the body right at the moment of conception. But human beings denied health insurance because they have a pre-existing condition. Or someone sick and their insurance won’t cover something. Or someone has to choose between food and medication because they can’t afford both. Or someone homeless or hungry or thirsty.

The people Jesus actually talked about serving and taking care of are somehow debatable? But a word He never mentioned is not. I have now heard it all. Well God bless you and peace.

And this whole “soul” business is just a smoke screen. Abortion is not wrong because we believe the unborn has a soul. It’s not wrong to kill the unborn because they have souls, it’s wrong because they are HUMANS. Atheists don’t believe anyone has a soul, but yes, there are pro-life Atheists who see abortion for what it is-a civil rights issue. NO ONE has any right to end an innocent life of another, know matter their size or location.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[CMatt25]

I never said this, again you are making things up to condone the promotion of abortion.

You said abortion is black and white and “every other issue you bring into this is debatable”. I assumed you were including every other issue Christ actually talked about. And I failed to see how they could be more debatable when He actually talked about them and didn’t even mention the word abortion. I’m sorry if I misunderstood. It happens on forums such as this. I’ve been misunderstood when people call me a non-Catholic evilholder and judge me to face hell. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

A non disputed statistic makes a very good talking point.

Saying pro choice (pro abortion in your language) people are racist is not a non-disputed statistic. It’s nothing but an outright flaming talking pt with no justification in statistics at all. Even if a higher percentage of one race compared to their ratio in the general populace chose abortion, it has nothing at all to do with pro choice folk of any race being racist. I was not even aware of any such statistics and frankly don’t care about them. So to call me a racist I actually find it quite offensive to me personally and for anyone to even begin to corelate the 2.

 

[CathFaith1]

Euthanasia and Abortion: A Catholic View
by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J.

A short quality read.

 

[CMatt25]

And this whole “soul” business is just a smoke screen. Abortion is not wrong because we believe the unborn has a soul. It’s not wrong to kill the unborn because they have souls, it’s wrong because they are HUMANS. Atheists don’t believe anyone has a soul, but yes, there are pro-life Atheists who see abortion for what it is-a civil rights issue. NO ONE has any right to end an innocent life of another, know matter their size or location.

In Christ,

Ellen

And there are atheists and agnostics right here on CAF who show more compassion for the sick and the poor than I have experienced some Catholics doing on various threads throughout the CAF family. God bless and peace.

 

[dmelosi]

You said abortion is black and white and “every other issue you bring into this is debatable”. I assumed you were including every other issue Christ actually talked about. And I failed to see how they could be more debatable when He actually talked about them and didn’t even mention the word abortion. I’m sorry if I misunderstood. It happens on forums such as this. I’ve been misunderstood when people call me a non-Catholic evilholder and judge me to face hell. Peace.

You keep twisting what is said. Your Quote

The people Jesus actually talked about serving and taking care of are somehow debatable?

This was never mentioned, yet you twist what is being said. This topic is abortion, yet you insist to make it more than that.

 

[dmelosi]

Saying pro choice (pro abortion in your language) people are racist is not a non-disputed statistic. It’s nothing but an outright flaming talking pt with no justification in statistics at all. Even if a higher percentage of one race compared to their ratio in the general populace chose abortion, it has nothing at all to do with pro choice folk of any race being racist. I was not even aware of any such statistics and frankly don’t care about them. So to call me a racist I actually find it quite offensive to me personally and for anyone to even begin to corelate the 2.

I never called anyone a racist or even suggested it.

 

[CMatt25]

You keep twisting what is said. Your Quote

This was never mentioned, yet you twist what is being said. This topic is abortion, yet you insist to make it more than that.

No this topic is abortion and politics and if the Church sees fit to enter politics, She should be emphasizing some other issues in politics if She is indeed going to walk fully with the words of Jesus.

You apparently missed the “?” at the end of the quote of mine you presented. You have answered you did not mean for me to take it as if the issues Christ actually talked about were debatable. I apolgized if I understood incorrectly originally. Case closed.

 

[CMatt25]

I never called anyone a racist or even suggested it.

And I didn’t say you did. So don’t put words into my mouth either.

You were espousing the merits of something Estesbob said about a certain race procuring a relatively higher percentage of abortions. In the same post of which you were defending at least this first part of (Estebob’s very good talking point as you call it), Estesbob then went on to imply somehow the statistics he/she came up with corresponded to pro choice people being racist. This was not the first attempt by Estesbob to paint pro choice people racists.

I was merely responding to your defense of Estesbob’s talking pt and then was responding to his/her entire post in the context of the post to you. We were both speaking about what Estesbob had said in our posts to ea other. No so far if any one of the 3 of us has called anyone a racist it is not you nor I. Peace.

 

[dmelosi]

No this topic is abortion and politics and if the Church sees fit to enter politics, She should be emphasizing some other issues in politics if She is indeed going to walk fully with the words of Jesus.

You apparently missed the “?” at the end of the quote of mine you presented. You have answered you did not mean for me to take it as if the issues Christ actually talked about were debatable. I apolgized if I understood incorrectly originally. Case closed.

Are you saying that the Church does not walk fully with the words of Jesus? We haven’t even been talking about the church’s teaching on the other issues, not sure why you bring up what they should be doing. I apologize if I read it wrong on what you were trying to say here.

I think that most will say that there is only 1 disagreement on this thread of all of the issues that have been brought up. That issue is abortion. You are the only one defending that right.

 

[CMatt25]

Are you saying that the Church does not walk fully with the words of Jesus? We haven’t even been talking about the church’s teaching on the other issues, not sure why you bring up what they should be doing. I apologize if I read it wrong on what you were trying to say here.

I think that most will say that there is only 1 disagreement on this thread of all of the issues that have been brought up. That issue is abortion. You are the only one defending that right.

dmelosi, we have related threads going on at once and you guys have been keeping me busy! I’ve been talking about Christ’s words in Matt 25:35-46 as issues the Church should be emphasizing more. If I’m mixing up the threads please forgive me. I’m not so sure though the disagreement is really abortion or simply what the law should be in a secular democratic society of plural faiths and beliefs on the abortion matter. God bless you always and peace.