Abortion and Voting

[Joan_Grier]

Is it a mortal sin to vote for anyone, regardless of the political party, who is in favor of abortion? I have researched and cannot get a definate answer. Everyone seems to be dancing around that question.

I myself would never vote for anyone who is pro-abortion no matter what party, however, I have a few catholic friends that I am concerned about who are staunch one political party. I thought if I could get a definate answer from you that might help.

Thank you,
JJ:slapfight:

 

[syromalabarcath]

Is it a mortal sin to vote for anyone, regardless of the political party, who is in favor of abortion? I have researched and cannot get a definate answer. Everyone seems to be dancing around that question.

I myself would never vote for anyone who is pro-abortion no matter what party, however, I have a few catholic friends that I am concerned about who are staunch one political party. I thought if I could get a definate answer from you that might help.

Thank you,
JJ:slapfight:

hah, yeah, believe me…the answer is ambiguous but i have spoken to numerous priests about this issue and done a great deal of research as I am pro-life but voted for someone who was in favor of abortion.

It is** not a sin** to vote for someone in favor of abortion AS LONG AS you are :

a) not voting for them because you support abortion (in which case that’s a pretty grave sin)
b) have come to this decision after a great deal of consideration and contemplation
c) could more or less “justify” your choice to no one else but God.

The Catholic Church can **NEVER **tell you who to vote for, but they encourage all Catholics to form their conscience before voting. That’s all.

PS - Even if your friends love a political party that typically supports abortion and that was a “sin” according to the Catholic Church, I dont really see how that is anybody’s business but that individual’s…

 

[Sillara]

There is also the “and the other option is equally bad.” You should not vote for a pro-abortion candidate unless the other candidate is WORSE on the non-negotiable issues (i.e., life and death issues).

 

[syromalabarcath]

There is also the “and the other option is equally bad.” You should not vote for a pro-abortion candidate unless the other candidate is WORSE on the non-negotiable issues (i.e., life and death issues).

But again, that is all under the discretion and prudence of the person voting.
Not having health insurance, that could lead to death.
Not having a clean environment to live in, that could to lead to death.

Etc, etc.

 

[Sillara]

Yes, but I would want my excuse for voting for a pro-abortion candidate to be one that would convince an aborted baby. If I couldn’t find one, then I wouldn’t vote for a pro-abortion candidate.

 

[RobbyS]

hah, yeah, believe me…the answer is ambiguous but i have spoken to numerous priests about this issue and done a great deal of research as I am pro-life but voted for someone who was in favor of abortion.

It is** not a sin** to vote for someone in favor of abortion AS LONG AS you are :

a) not voting for them because you support abortion (in which case that’s a pretty grave sin)
b) have come to this decision after a great deal of consideration and contemplation
c) could more or less “justify” your choice to no one else but God.

The Catholic Church can **NEVER **tell you who to vote for, but they encourage all Catholics to form their conscience before voting. That’s all.

PS - Even if your friends love a political party that typically supports abortion and that was a “sin” according to the Catholic Church, I dont really see how that is anybody’s business but that individual’s…

One can straddle the issue only up to a point. What happens when you get a pol who like Pelosi is openely opposed to the teachings of the Church and insists she knows more about the issue than the bishops. The only issue that is comparable in gravity to the abortion issue is the issue of atomic warfare.

 

[ProVobis]

The only issue that is comparable in gravity to the abortion issue is the issue of atomic warfare.

I agree. Too bad the Republicans didn’t think so back in 1973 when they managed to pass through Roe vs Wade, which the Supreme Court upheld. I’d be careful of their goody-two-shoes stand opposing abortion today.

 

[vera_dicere]

My brother and his wife, both catholic, vote for a party that has an openly pro-abortion stance - all other parties in my country have abortion as a conscience issue - they don’t force people to vote for pro-abortion policies.

The way I look at it, whoever you vote for, whatever they do, you are responsible for. If Obama legalises infanticide and publically supports it, then all who voted for Obama are responsible for the blood of infants.

 

[RodneyJ]

My brother and his wife, both catholic, vote for a party that has an openly pro-abortion stance - all other parties in my country have abortion as a conscience issue - they don’t force people to vote for pro-abortion policies.

The way I look at it, whoever you vote for, whatever they do, you are responsible for. If Obama legalises infanticide and publically supports it, then all who voted for Obama are responsible for the blood of infants.

wow, this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read.

 

[estesbob]

But again, that is all under the discretion and prudence of the person voting.
Not having health insurance, that could lead to death.
Not having a clean environment to live in, that could to lead to death.

Etc, etc.

The Pope, the Magestrium and the Amercian catholic Bishops disagree with you . Noissue or combination of issues trumps abortion. The ONLY time you can vote for a pro-abortion canidate is if his opponent is more pro-abortion than he is.

3.* Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.** For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
*

Cardinal Ratzinger

*22.There are some things we must never do, as individuals or as a society, because they are always incompatible with love of God and neighbor. Such actions are so deeply flawed that they are always opposed to the authentic good of persons. **These **are called “intrinsically evil” actions. They must always be rejected and opposed and must never be supported or condoned. A prime example is the intentional taking of innocent human life, as in abortion and euthanasia. In our nation, “abortion and euthanasia have become preeminent threats to human dignitybecause they directly attack life itself, the most fundamental human good and thecondition for all others” (Living the Gospel of Life, no. 5). It is a mistake with grave moral consequences to treat the destruction of innocent human life merely as a matter of individual choice. A legal system that violates the basic right to life on the grounds of choice is fundamentally flawed.

To suggest - as some Catholics do - that Senator Obama is this year’s ‘‘real’’ prolife candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse. To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means. Anyone interested in Senator Obama’s record on abortion and related issues should simply read Prof. Robert P. George’s Public Discourse essay from earlier this week, ''Obama’s Abortion Extremism,’’ and his follow-up article, ''Obama and Infanticide.’’ They say everything that needs to be said.

Archbishop Chaput

---

 

[estesbob]

I agree. Too bad the Republicans didn’t think so back in 1973 when they managed to pass through Roe vs Wade, which the Supreme Court upheld. I’d be careful of their goody-two-shoes stand opposing abortion today.

Every single law restricitng abortion has come thorugh the efforts of the Republicans over the fierce oppostion of the Democrat party. To dimiss those who oppose abortion as “goody two shoes” is specious.

You are aware that Obama released funds to overseas abortion groups that REPUBLICAN George Bush froze? The last time these funds were available(under DEMOCRAT Bill Clinton) in addtion to paying for the killing of thens of thousands of children they were used to pay for 90,000 forced sterilization of poor Peruvian women.

 

[syromalabarcath]

Yes, but I would want my excuse for voting for a pro-abortion candidate to be one that would convince an aborted baby. If I couldn’t find one, then I wouldn’t vote for a pro-abortion candidate.

Cool.
That’s your call.

 

[syromalabarcath]

One can straddle the issue only up to a point. What happens when you get a pol who like Pelosi is openely opposed to the teachings of the Church and insists she knows more about the issue than the bishops. The only issue that is comparable in gravity to the abortion issue is the issue of atomic warfare.

mmm yeah, again, that would be your opinion. not Catholic teaching.

 

[syromalabarcath]

My brother and his wife, both catholic, vote for a party that has an openly pro-abortion stance - all other parties in my country have abortion as a conscience issue - they don’t force people to vote for pro-abortion policies.

The way I look at it, whoever you vote for, whatever they do, you are responsible for. If Obama legalises infanticide and publically supports it, then all who voted for Obama are responsible for the blood of infants.

mmm, not really.
I can only think of one person, to this date, who has found a politician who agrees with EVERYTHING that person supports. So to find one, is very hard…and you can vote for someone and not believe in everything they believe in.

 

[syromalabarcath]

The Pope, the Magestrium and the Amercian catholic Bishops disagree with you . Noissue or combination of issues trumps abortion. The ONLY time you can vote for a pro-abortion canidate is if his opponent is more pro-abortion than he is.

3.* Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.*** For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

Cardinal Ratzinger

*22.*There are some things we must never do, as individuals or as a society, because they are always incompatible with love of God and neighbor. Such actions are so deeply flawed that they are always opposed to the authentic good of persons. **These **are called “intrinsically evil” actions. They must always be rejected and opposed and must never be supported or condoned. A prime example is the intentional taking of innocent human life, as in abortion and euthanasia. In our nation, “abortion and euthanasia have become preeminent threats to human dignitybecause they directly attack life itself, the most fundamental human good and thecondition for all others” (Living the Gospel of Life, no. 5). It is a mistake with grave moral consequences to treat the destruction of innocent human life merely as a matter of individual choice. A legal system that violates the basic right to life on the grounds of choice is fundamentally flawed.

To suggest - as some Catholics do - that Senator Obama is this year’s ‘‘real’’ prolife candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse. To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means. Anyone interested in Senator Obama’s record on abortion and related issues should simply read Prof. Robert P. George’s Public Discourse essay from earlier this week, ''Obama’s Abortion Extremism,’’ and his follow-up article, ''Obama and Infanticide.’’ They say everything that needs to be said.

Archbishop Chaput

---

Yeah, believe me.
I’ve read it all and i’ve researched it all.
I know the Bishop’s entire statement that they come out with every election season (“forming your conscience” guide).
I’m not phased by this and I know how to dissect every part of it.
I’m not going to argue my points here because it’s pretty apparent I’m speaking to a wall.

 

[cmevans]

Sallara’s response “Yes, but I would want my excuse for voting for a pro-abortion candidate to be one that would convince an aborted baby. If I couldn’t find one, then I wouldn’t vote for a pro-abortion candidate”.

This is by far the BEST response I have ever heard regarding voting for those in favor of killing unborn and born babies. I think it would be a good idea to mandate that every “public servant” who has the power to vote on abortion must witness the process of ending the life of a baby, preferably a partial birth murder.

 

[syromalabarcath]

Sallara’s response “Yes, but I would want my excuse for voting for a pro-abortion candidate to be one that would convince an aborted baby. If I couldn’t find one, then I wouldn’t vote for a pro-abortion candidate”.

This is by far the BEST response I have ever heard regarding voting for those in favor of killing unborn and born babies. I think it would be a good idea to mandate that every “public servant” who has the power to vote on abortion must witness the process of ending the life of a baby, preferably a partial birth murder.

So…we should all be single issue voters then?
well, yeah. I see your point.
That’s definitely the most rational argument for a citizen of a country who wants to better that country because apparently the only thing affecting that country is abortion. There’s apparently no other morality, social justice, and poverty issues or anything.

 

[vera_dicere]

mmm, not really.
I can only think of one person, to this date, who has found a politician who agrees with EVERYTHING that person supports. So to find one, is very hard…and you can vote for someone and not believe in everything they believe in.

Its all about deciding what’s important to you and what you can or can’t compromise on.

If a politican offered to give you a tax cut that would put 10 extra dollars in your account each week, but at the same time said polictican supported abortion. You vote for that polictican becuase you want ten extra dollars each week, what would you say to God, “Oh, sorry, Father, but I kinda wanted that ten extra dollars… even though the politican went on to pass horrificallly pro-abortion laws”.

If a politican wanted to pass greener laws, but supported abortion, what would you say to God when he asks why you fobbed off the lives of children to save a few trees?

Of course, the govt. system in NZL is much different, we don’t have two or three parties to choose from, we have many, many more so its easier to find a politican to vote for who’s ideas match your own.

Its about prirotising your beliefs. Is the great big lie of global warming more important to you then the unborn? Is giving you a few extra dollars in the dole more important then the unborn? Are “green” policies more important then euthanasia?

I can die with a clear conscience knowing my votes didn’t sign the death sentance of an unborn child, the terminally ill, or a wad of embryos in a petri dish.

 

[syromalabarcath]

Its all about deciding what’s important to you and what you can or can’t compromise on.

If a politican offered to give you a tax cut that would put 10 extra dollars in your account each week, but at the same time said polictican supported abortion. You vote for that polictican becuase you want ten extra dollars each week, what would you say to God, “Oh, sorry, Father, but I kinda wanted that ten extra dollars… even though the politican went on to pass horrificallly pro-abortion laws”.

If a politican wanted to pass greener laws, but supported abortion, what would you say to God when he asks why you fobbed off the lives of children to save a few trees?

Of course, the govt. system in NZL is much different, we don’t have two or three parties to choose from, we have many, many more so its easier to find a politican to vote for who’s ideas match your own.

Its about prirotising your beliefs. Is the great big lie of global warming more important to you then the unborn? Is giving you a few extra dollars in the dole more important then the unborn? Are “green” policies more important then euthanasia?

I can die with a clear conscience knowing my votes didn’t sign the death sentance of an unborn child, the terminally ill, or a wad of embryos in a petri dish.

I had an entire page worth of stuff to respond to you but I deleted it all because I realised it wasnt relevant to the topic of this THREAD.
anywho, this is a morality call which the Catholic Church has only given guidelines for.
They don’t tell you who to vote for.
period.
end of discussion.

ps - “wad of embryos”. wow, yeah you’re a great role model for the pro-life movement…

 

[estesbob]

Yeah, believe me.
I’ve read it all and i’ve researched it all.
I know the Bishop’s entire statement that they come out with every election season (“forming your conscience” guide).
I’m not phased by this and I know how to dissect every part of it.
I’m not going to argue my points here because it’s pretty apparent I’m speaking to a wall.

You wont argue your points because they are not supportable by the teachings of the Church. You have to ask yourslef-does your faith form your politics or does your politics form your faith?