Abortion and Voting

[Numinous]

So the Republican policies have not destroyed your country? You mean your economy is great shape, unemployment is low, people can pay their mortgages, people have not become impoverished or died? I’m eager to hear you tell me how well the country has done under the Republicans.

I was agreeing with your point, dude. Calm down.

 

[Numinous]

The fundamental problem is seeking the answer to all life’s problems from a government that is fundamentally flawed. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? The first two–sure! The last one–what a load of bull. The founding fathers and all Americans who buy into that garbage are a bunch of self-serving A-holes. I’m not saying America is the worst country on the planet; I just looking to politics to cure all our ills is lazy, irresponsible, and unwise.

Fire all politicians, regardless of political party. Their positions are all equally worthless, corrupt, and ineffective.

 

[thistle]

I was agreeing with your point, dude. Calm down.

My apologies.

 

[mom2boyz]

So what happens to those Catholics who voted for B.O. if FOCA passes? How will you then justify your participation in the legal murder of children at all stages of fetal development? If you voted for him and this horrible thing passes while he is president, you will have participated in helping it happen. If this passes it will negate anything else he does.

The economic troubles the US is having aren’t solely Bush’s responsibility. You need to look further back for the cause of much of this. I am pretty sure people died before Bush became president and I know people will die while BO is president. As far as what people did with their money. Many people who are now facing foreclosure lived beyond their means in many other way besides housing. Many pushed their limits in the housing market. Instead of buying a modest house, they had to buy something larger. That isn’t to say some weren’t fooled. There are many social programs both government and religious in the US for those who need assistance with shelter and food. Also economics are cyclical. Then there is the lack of tried and true policies that went out the window because of greed. The country isn’t destroyed yet, but printing money like toilet paper might just do us in. Then I guess the rest of the world that hates us can rejoice when the new powers are China, Russia and Iran.

 

[estesbob]

That may be true if you believe the papers, but how many abortions have the Republicans actually prevented? They caused the damage so how do you expect all them to return all the horses back to the barn, so to speak? They need to do more to become credible; mere talk and political maneuvering will not cut it. So far, Ron Paul is the only one with any credibility, but he wasn’t even allowed to talk at the RNC. I rest my case.

The hyde amendment(prohibiting medicaid funded abortions) prevents over a 100,000 abortions a year. States with parental consent, waitng periods, informed consent , etclaws see reduction in abrotions from 5 to 10% . All of these were passed by Republicans with fierce oppostion from Democrats.

The funds just released by Obama for overseas aobortion providers(which have been prohibited by every republican President since Ronald Reagan )pay for 10s of thousands of abortion every year and for forced steriliztions and forced abortions.

Of course the larger question is why would one trust in leadership position one who beleive there are circumstances where a Mother should be allowed to pay to have her child killed?

 

[estesbob]

So the Republican policies have not destroyed your country? You mean your economy is great shape, unemployment is low, people can pay their mortgages, people have not become impoverished or died? I’m eager to hear you tell me how well the country has done under the Republicans.

92.3 of americans have jobs. Low by european standards. 93% of people are current on their mortgages.

Even if the economy was as dire as you say it would not reslut in the deaths of 1.2 million americans a year.

 

[syromalabarcath]

A petition that would not have been necessary had you not helped put Obama in office. And what did you do to stop the renewed funding of overseas abortions? Or do aborted children of who lived in foreign nations not count when one is a “pro-life” Obama supporter?

that’s nice of you to insult and **judge **me without knowing anything else about me.

really CATHOLIC of you.
I didn’t realise you had that authority or power.

 

[syromalabarcath]

Although McCain didn’t come out and state he was 100% pro life, he did vote for the ban on partial birth abortion while bo DID NOT, 3 or 4 times, in fact. Once wasn’t enough for this amoral man. McCain DID say he believed life began at conception. bo, doesn’t know, in spite of his “elite” education. Could it be he wanted to make sure he had all those votes from the abortion field and the fence sitters of the Catholic Church. Naaaah! He wasn’t playing for votes at all.

bo gave his promise to PP that he would sign the bill for FOCA. This will probably be partitioned into several other passable bills. bo has already rescinded the Mexico City policy and our federal taxes are now funding international abortions. WHAT A LEGACY!!.

My vote went to the man, who although did not promise to overturn Roe vs. Wade, did give we pro life (from conception to death) people the hope we would have pro life judges filling in the vacancies that are coming up in the Supreme Court in the future.bo has promised he would see to it ONLY PRO ABORTION judges are placed. My vote went to the man who DIDN’T promise he would see to it that unborn babies can be aborted at will by their mothers.

As far as “thinking” Catholics should not be one issue voters, let’s interpret Pope Benedict’s statement to read ( from my #22 post of this thread). “Pope Benedict XVI, in one of his statements, said one could vote for a pro abortion candidate if there was a proportionate issue that could justify ignoring the intrinsic evils of abortion, euthanasia, cloning, embryonic stem cell research and homosexual marriage”. This is paraphrased by me, but after looking at all the issues surrounding this past election, reading the statements of several Bishops, such as Chaput, Finn, Hermann, Martino, Rigali and Archbishop Burke, reading the encyclicals Evangelium Vitae and Veritatis Splendor of Pope John Paul II, this is the only conclusion I could logically come to. There were NO proportionate issues on an equal standing with that of abortion and the other intrinsic evils on the docket in this election.

If you have doubts about this, read the statements of the above clergy by going to their websites. You will see they clarified the USCCB Voting directions, Faithful Citizenship, which was a muddled up mess, but led many catholics to believe they could ignore the intrinsic evils that were being supported by bo and his party and vote “their conscience” while not having the slightest idea what a well formed conscience is.

Unfortunately, I think many Catholics who voted for bo read what they wanted to read, which was the USCCB, Faithful Citizenship, which was confusing beyond all get out, said, “Hey, I was thinking of voting for bo, and this proves I can.” They made a very serious moral error.

I voted for Barack Obama.(i dont know why you insist of referring to him with his initials and them being lower cased. is that your way of “insulting” him as well? really…classy?)
Yes, I did! =)

P.S. - again, I didnt realise you had the authority to tell me whether a vote was a serious moral error. And considering I spent hours talking to different priests on this issue and they knew I was voting for Obama and they did not tell me this mmm…yeah. weird.

 

[syromalabarcath]

92.3 of americans have jobs. Low by european standards. 93% of people are current on their mortgages.

Even if the economy was as dire as you say it would not reslut in the deaths of 1.2 million americans a year.

can you show me your references?

P.S. – what about the millions of people abroad that have died due to our “war on terror”? dont want to share that stat?

 

[syromalabarcath]

So what happens to those Catholics who voted for B.O. if FOCA passes? How will you then justify your participation in the legal murder of children at all stages of fetal development? If you voted for him and this horrible thing passes while he is president, you will have participated in helping it happen. If this passes it will negate anything else he does.

The economic troubles the US is having aren’t solely Bush’s responsibility. You need to look further back for the cause of much of this. I am pretty sure people died before Bush became president and I know people will die while BO is president. As far as what people did with their money. Many people who are now facing foreclosure lived beyond their means in many other way besides housing. Many pushed their limits in the housing market. Instead of buying a modest house, they had to buy something larger. That isn’t to say some weren’t fooled. There are many social programs both government and religious in the US for those who need assistance with shelter and food. Also economics are cyclical. Then there is the lack of tried and true policies that went out the window because of greed. The country isn’t destroyed yet, but printing money like toilet paper might just do us in. Then I guess the rest of the world that hates us can rejoice when the new powers are China, Russia and Iran.

do you watch fox news by any chance? and ONLY fox news?

 

[mom2boyz]

NO I do not watch only fox news. I guess that means you only watch other news outlets who support your views. How insulting!

 

[estesbob]

that’s nice of you to insult and **judge **me without knowing anything else about me.

really CATHOLIC of you.
I didn’t realise you had that authority or power.

There is nothing to judge You admited you voted for Obama. It appears that perhaps you did not realize the consequences of your vote.

 

[estesbob]

can you show me your references?

Prior to 1976, the federal Medicaid program paid for
about 300,000 abortions a year. However, after the
Hyde Amendment went into effect for FY 1977, the
funding levels dropped dramatically. In FY 1977,
182,000 abortions were funded. In FY 1986, the
number was 232; in FY 2000, 109; in FY 2004, 159.

nchla.org/datasource/ifactsheets/4FSHydeAm22a.08.pdf

Parental involvement laws reduced the minor abortion rate by an average of 1.67 abortions per 1,000 females between the ages of 13 and 17.
Medicaid funding restrictions reduced the minor abortion rate by an average of 2.34 abortions per 1,000 females between the ages of 13 and 17.

heritage.org/Research/Family/cda07-01.cfm

P.S. – what about the millions of people abroad that have died due to our “war on terror”? dont want to share that stat?

The Pope adressed this directly:

Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

 

[estesbob]

I voted for Barack Obama.(i dont know why you insist of referring to him with his initials and them being lower cased. is that your way of “insulting” him as well? really…classy?)
Yes, I did! =)

P.S. - again, I didnt realise you had the authority to tell me whether a vote was a serious moral error. And considering I spent hours talking to different priests on this issue and they knew I was voting for Obama and they did not tell me this mmm…yeah. weird.

ah the old “priest told me it was okay” argument rears its ugly head. If you spent hours talking to priests and they told you it’s okay to vote for Obama I suggest you notify their bishops.

I ask you again to show us was one single Bishop are any other member of the magestrium that stated they were proportional reasons for which one could vote for Obama.

 

[Nordar]

Yeah, believe me.
I’ve read it all and i’ve researched it all.
I know the Bishop’s entire statement that they come out with every election season (“forming your conscience” guide).
I’m not phased by this and I know how to dissect every part of it.
I’m not going to argue my points here because it’s pretty apparent I’m speaking to a wall.

When I come before God and he parades all those slaughtered babies in front of me, I will have no guilt. I did not vote for abortion.

“forming your conscience guide is simply an excuse for your abortion vote” You will not be able to give excuses when God challenges you to answer.

Just how do you dissect every part of it and still come up with voting for abortion is A OK.? Pope Benedict who is ( persona Christi) said it is not A OK.

No you are not talking to a wall, you just don’t like the fact that others disagree with you.

As a final note. you cannot kill God’s children, you just simply can’t and voting for a candidate who is so pro abortion you are in effect culpable for the deaths of those babies. No if ands or buts about it, no matter how much you tell yourself it ain’t so!

 

[Nordar]

So…we should all be single issue voters then?
well, yeah. I see your point.
That’s definitely the most rational argument for a citizen of a country who wants to better that country because apparently the only thing affecting that country is abortion. There’s apparently no other morality, social justice, and poverty issues or anything.

Nothing is more important than the killing of millions of babies, nothing.

You cannot have any kind of morality, social justice ( where is the social justice for the aborted babies?) as long as abortion is allowed to continue.

 

[ProVobis]

States with parental consent, waitng periods, informed consent , etclaws see reduction in abrotions from 5 to 10% .

That’s the real issue. States need to get involved, not the feds. The whole Roe vs Wade controversy had a lot to do skirting Amendment 10 to the Constitution.

 

[jp2weloveu]

To say you are solidly pro-life and just as solidly back pro-abortion candidates is being dishonest to yourself. If you believe that convenience is more valuable than protecting that innocent life which God has made then come to terms with that and pray that God would open your mind and heart; learn about the issue and meditate upon it.

To add some clarity with regard to the Churches position on this issue please consider the current FOCA post card campaign, sponsored by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. The purpose of this campaign (which should be present in all catholic parishes throughout the entire nation) is to try effect (stop) the course of this deeply troubling legislation.

How often does the entire domestic Church place such value in “political” issues? Has your priest said “yeah well we’re mailing these postcards, but how you feel on the issue and whether you promote life or the culture of death is really up to you”?

I ran one of the post card sign up tables at our parish We had nearly 100% participation We even ran out of postcards and had to do it again this past weekend.

Does it sound like the bishops side with a very small minority of priests who may think it’s ok to vote pro-abortion? Let us remember just how anti-life our new president is. Remember he fought legislation that would protect babies after they were born (in the case of a botched abortion). His reasoning - the mother and doctor both already agreed that the innocent child should be killed and he wasn’t one to stand in between a medical professional and his patient. And he absolutely needs to be our president just why again?

THIS IS THE GREATEST EVIL OF OUR DAY!!!

Such inane rhetoric has been used in the past to justify murder. And I don’t want any persons that promote murder in office.

He also has troubling views of babies being liabilities and imperfect babies being more of a liability (is BO believer in eugenics maybe?).

Without a proper respect for human life, created by God in His own image and likeness - truly the darkness is setting in… People who are voting for those putting such policies in place are obviously active participants in our demise.

 

[Nordar]

To say you are solidly pro-life and just as solidly back pro-abortion candidates is being dishonest to yourself. If you believe that convenience is more valuable than protecting that innocent life which God has made then come to terms with that and pray that God would open your mind and heart; learn about the issue and meditate upon it.

To add some clarity with regard to the Churches position on this issue please consider the current FOCA post card campaign, sponsored by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. The purpose of this campaign (which should be present in all catholic parishes throughout the entire nation) is to try affect (stop) the course of this deeply troubling legislation.

How often does the entire domestic Church place such value in “political” issues? Has your priest said “yeah well we’re mailing these postcards, but how you feel on the issue and whether you promote life or the culture of death is really up to you”?

I ran one of the post card sign up tables at our parish We had nearly 100% participation We even ran out of postcards and had to do it again this past weekend.

Does it sound like the bishops side with a very small minority of priests who may think it’s ok to vote pro-abortion? Let us remember just how anti-life our new president is. Remember he fought legislation that would protect babies after they were born (in the case of a botched abortion). His reasoning - the mother and doctor both already agreed that the innocent child should be killed and he wasn’t one to stand in between a medical professional and his patient. And he absolutely needs to be our president just why again?

THIS IS THE GREATEST EVIL OF OUR DAY!!!

Such inane rhetoric has been used in the past to justify murder. And I don’t want any persons that promote murder in office.

He also has troubling views of babies being liabilities and imperfect babies being more of a liability (is BO believer in eugenics maybe?).

Without a proper respect for human life, created by God in His own image and likeness - truly the darkness is setting in… People who are voting for those putting such policies in place are obviously active participants in our demise.

:sad_yes:

 

[ProVobis]

92.3 of americans have jobs. Low by european standards. 93% of people are current on their mortgages.

You’re right about abortion but no one really believes these figures, do they?