Abortion and Voting

[estesbob]

You’re right about abortion but no one really believes these figures, do they?

Lots of fearmongering going on. You keep hearing this nonsense if this is the worst economy since the Great Depression. It was worse in 1979 that it is now. Unemployment was higher in 1992.

 

[MarcellusW]

To say voting for Barack Obama is a sin is not casting judgment on a soul, its only stating the facts. Just like if someone said killing a person because of greed is a sin. It’s obvious. Perhaps the killer who killed out of greed will use many justifications to aleviate his guilty consience, but it still doesn’t change the objective fact of his crime.

 

[syromalabarcath]

There is nothing to judge You admited you voted for Obama. It appears that perhaps you did not realize the consequences of your vote.

Yeah I can admit it – there’s nothing shameful about my vote, that’s why.

I DO realise the consequences of my vote. Perhaps you just cannot realise and accept that other people can vote for him with a clear conscience.

 

[syromalabarcath]

NO I do not watch only fox news. I guess that means you only watch other news outlets who support your views. How insulting!

I don’t watch fox news due to its extreme bias…(your statement heavily reflected that, that’s all).
I don’t just watch “liberal” news outlets…I watch news from other countries and read international news websites, btw.

 

[ProVobis]

Lots of fearmongering going on. You keep hearing this nonsense if this is the worst economy since the Great Depression. It was worse in 1979 that it is now. Unemployment was higher in 1992.

I thought 1979 was great. Was given three pay raises. I was laid off in 1992. Lots of fearmongering is right. Short-sellers made a lot of money in the Great Depression years.

 

[syromalabarcath]

Prior to 1976, the federal Medicaid program paid for
about 300,000 abortions a year. However, after the
Hyde Amendment went into effect for FY 1977, the
funding levels dropped dramatically. In FY 1977,
182,000 abortions were funded. In FY 1986, the
number was 232; in FY 2000, 109; in FY 2004, 159.

nchla.org/datasource/ifactsheets/4FSHydeAm22a.08.pdf

Parental involvement laws reduced the minor abortion rate by an average of 1.67 abortions per 1,000 females between the ages of 13 and 17.
Medicaid funding restrictions reduced the minor abortion rate by an average of 2.34 abortions per 1,000 females between the ages of 13 and 17.

heritage.org/Research/Family/cda07-01.cfm

The Pope adressed this directly:

Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

if you read my post correctly you would realise that I was asking for the references in relation to the job/economy status, NOT the hyde amendment.

secondly, it’s my own personal discretion of how much i blindly follow what the pope says. YES, i acknowledge that this statement opens a barrage of attacks of how “not catholic” this is but my faith with God is a faith with GOD ultimately. my faith = NOT everything the Pope says. Nor are my political views and choices based on this.

 

[syromalabarcath]

ah the old “priest told me it was okay” argument rears its ugly head. If you spent hours talking to priests and they told you it’s okay to vote for Obama I suggest you notify their bishops.

I ask you again to show us was one single Bishop are any other member of the magestrium that stated they were proportional reasons for which one could vote for Obama.

ah, the old “pro-life single issue voter” comebacks.

look, I voted for Obama.
I feel great about it.
I had no bad feelings nor do I think my conscience was failing when I made the decision.
I dont think Im a bad person* or* a bad catholic for doing so.
If every Bishop in the world wants to think that I am, great.
Their opinion of me = not God’s.
The day of judgment is NOT their opinion; that’s what God is for.

 

[Nordar]

secondly, it’s my own personal discretion of how much i blindly follow what the pope says. YES, i acknowledge that this statement opens a barrage of attacks of how “not catholic” this is but my faith with God is a faith with GOD ultimately. my faith = NOT everything the Pope says. Nor are my political views and choices based on this.

No surprise there!

 

[syromalabarcath]

When I come before God and he parades all those slaughtered babies in front of me, I will have no guilt. I did not vote for abortion.

“forming your conscience guide is simply an excuse for your abortion vote” You will not be able to give excuses when God challenges you to answer.

Just how do you dissect every part of it and still come up with voting for abortion is A OK.? Pope Benedict who is ( persona Christi) said it is not A OK.

No you are not talking to a wall, you just don’t like the fact that others disagree with you.

As a final note. you cannot kill God’s children, you just simply can’t and voting for a candidate who is so pro abortion you are in effect culpable for the deaths of those babies. No if ands or buts about it, no matter how much you tell yourself it ain’t so!

PLEASE NOTE, and this goes FOR EVERYONE…
I do not care that others vehemently disagree with me.
I DO CARE when people make attacks on me because of a political choice and try to push upon me that infamous “Catholic guilt” or insinuate that I am a bad Catholic.
I don’t feel guilty and I do not think I am a bad Catholic because of a political decision I made.

SOOOO…that’s MY opinion. MY thoughts. MY feelings. again.
if you feel so free in your conscience and your decision, great because so do I.

 

[Nordar]

Yeah I can admit it – there’s nothing shameful about my vote, that’s why.

I DO realise the consequences of my vote. Perhaps you just cannot realise and accept that other people can vote for him with a clear conscience.

If you are speaking about Catholics voting for him with a clear conscience that is pretty much an oxymoron!

 

[mom2boyz]

My statement heavily reflected what I have personally observed in action by many number of people, what I have witnessed personally while helping those who are disadvantaged and by observing what is available in many different communities. None of which is reported by any media anywhere since not a single reporter has asked for my observations. If this mirrors what fox news is reporting, I can’t help that.

 

[syromalabarcath]

Nothing is more important than the killing of millions of babies, nothing.

You cannot have any kind of morality, social justice ( where is the social justice for the aborted babies?) as long as abortion is allowed to continue.

Yeah I’ve heard that rationale.
I see where people are coming from, but I do not feel the need to support a candidate who is not 100% pro-life (you cannot be pro-capital punishment, pro-war and NOT 100% anti-abortion and still be pro-life) just because he/shes kinda-sorta pro-life and kinda-sorta won’t do anything to change that…because politicians understand how many votes they get in by the thousands due to this ultimate trump card.
I’m not budging on my rationale. agree to disagree.

 

[syromalabarcath]

No surprise there!

Lol, could you judge me a little bit more? Please?

 

[fix]

Is it a mortal sin to vote for anyone, regardless of the political party, who is in favor of abortion? I have researched and cannot get a definate answer. Everyone seems to be dancing around that question.

I myself would never vote for anyone who is pro-abortion no matter what party, however, I have a few catholic friends that I am concerned about who are staunch one political party. I thought if I could get a definate answer from you that might help.

Thank you,
JJ:slapfight:

If Catholics lived as Catholics we would not have to even ask the question.

Pro aborts get where they are because Catholics vote for them.

 

[syromalabarcath]

If you are speaking about Catholics voting for him with a clear conscience that is pretty much an oxymoron!

An oxymoron for you, a truth for others like me. =)

 

[estesbob]

if you read my post correctly you would realise that I was asking for the references in relation to the job/economy status, NOT the hyde amendment.

secondly, it’s my own personal discretion of how much i blindly follow what the pope says. YES, i acknowledge that this statement opens a barrage of attacks of how “not catholic” this is but my faith with God is a faith with GOD ultimately. my faith = NOT everything the Pope says. Nor are my political views and choices based on this.

You are saying that your politics are much more important to you than your faith-which comes as no suprise to anyone who has read your posts.

 

[Nordar]

PLEASE NOTE, and this goes FOR EVERYONE…
I do not care that others vehemently disagree with me.
I DO CARE when people make attacks on me because of a political choice and try to push upon me that infamous “Catholic guilt” or insinuate that I am a bad Catholic.
I don’t feel guilty and I do not think I am a bad Catholic because of a political decision I made.

SOOOO…that’s MY opinion. MY thoughts. MY feelings. again.
if you feel so free in your conscience and your decision, great because so do I.

Thou doeth protesteth too much!

Who is attacking you?
Disagreeing with you and attacking you are two seperate issues,
Who is pushing Catholic guilt on you? Incidently just what is Catholic guilt?
No one insinuated anything, what is happening here is that
A) this is a Catholic forum, most Catholics who post on here are obedient to the Magesterium and Pope Benedict.
B) Abortion is most definately a mortal sin, so in the event that some one mentions they condone it, voted for it, committed it, you will here the teachings of The Church , and that is, it is evil and a huge no no.
C) If you were so free in your conscience you would not be so adament in professing your vote for BO!

 

[jp2weloveu]

Thou doeth protesteth too much!

Who is attacking you?
Disagreeing with you and attacking you are two seperate issues,
Who is pushing Catholic guilt on you? Incidently just what is Catholic guilt?
No one insinuated anything, what is happening here is that
A) this is a Catholic forum, most Catholics who post on here are obedient to the Magesterium and Pope Benedict.
B) Abortion is most definately a mortal sin, so in the event that some one mentions they condone it, voted for it, committed it, you will here the teachings of The Church , and that is, it is evil and a huge no no.
C) If you were so free in your conscience you would not be so adament in professing your vote for BO!

Thanks for trying to inject some sanity. Some people will REFUSE to accept any facts or reason that runs contrary to their opinion or desires.

The worn out argument that “I have a clear conscience” suggests nothing about the formation of the subject’s conscience.

Just because you believe something strongly does that mean that it is necessarily true? Of course not. And will you be conflicted (or condemned by your conscience as it were) if you so believe? Again, no. Nonetheless, you would be no less wrong in your belief.

i.e. we could say that the depraved / malformed conscience clouds the intellect to the point that one cannot objectively see the truth.

We must all work diligently to try and persevere in our search for the Truth. We should pray for our own conversion and the conversion of others, and also that we may look to Our Lord and all that he has revealed for the proper formation of our conscience.

Pride the principal obstacle to this ongoing struggle in my opinion. It is truly a primary and most powerful sin.

 

[Numinous]

When I come before God and he parades all those slaughtered babies in front of me, I will have no guilt. I did not vote for abortion.

Neither did I, and yet I will probably still feel guilty for not doing enough to prevent their deaths…

Anyway, honestly, there is a point at which a situation becomes hopeless and one can no longer turn one’s back on such hellish activities such as abortion. People might think I’m a loon for saying this, but I think it’s time we took a page out of Elijah’s playbook and react with extreme force…for the sake of the babies. There IS a time to kill (not murder–there is a difference).

 

[elts1956]

Think before you open your mouth!! I’m not American and I don’t live in America.
I’m simply trying to understand why any American would vote for a candidate of a party based on one issue only when his party has spent 8 years destroying America. How many Americans in the past 8 years have become impoverished and died because of the Republican policies.

There are two viable political parties here in the U.S. Remember the Dems. had control of the house for at least half the time the Repubs. did. They did nothing either. The whole political system is a mess.