Abortion By Rape Comparison &?

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This is kind of a strange question, and a strange analogy.

While discussing abortion with a young guy I work with, he explained an analogy he learned in his philosophy class. It is a question that deals with aborting the unborn, in the case of rape. It is directed at pro-life people. I was unable to effectively answer it, because of it being a bizarre comparison. Here it is:

If you were told that you had to share your kidney for 9 months, with an unknown stranger, by having his failing kidney wired up to yours, in order for him to survive, would you do it?

What is your answer? I want to get back to him tomorrow. Thanks!
 
This is kind of a strange question, and a strange analogy.

While discussing abortion with a young guy I work with, he explained an analogy he learned in his philosophy class. It is a question that deals with aborting the unborn, in the case of rape. It is directed at pro-life people. I was unable to effectively answer it, because of it being a bizarre comparison. Here it is:

If you were told that you had to share your kidney for 9 months, with an unknown stranger, by having his failing kidney wired up to yours, in order for him to survive, would you do it?

What is your answer? I want to get back to him tomorrow. Thanks!
The best answer is to ask him if someone stole something from him, would it be ok if he in turn went and murdered an innocent bystander?

That is what abortion after rape is after all, someone violates the woman, so she in turn somehow gains the right to kill the child who did nothing?

Also Im not sure where he gets this “failing kidney” example from, there is no guarantee that either the mother or child will die, and to kill one in anticipation of saving the other is just as morally absurd as killing your brother in anticipation that there wont be enough food for you in the world if he keeps eating.

Lastly, there is absolutely NOTHING for your friend to say if you simply respond you would do all you could to try to save anyone’s life. What is he going to say then? You are too loving? Tell him the most heroic thing is to do all you can to preserve the life of an innocent person, and that would stop your friend dead in his tracks.
 
If you were told that you had to share your kidney for 9 months, with an unknown stranger, by having his failing kidney wired up to yours, in order for him to survive, would you do it?
The analogy doesn’t quite hold up, seeing as this “unknown stranger” is actually your son.

Even if someone had hooked me up to my son because if not He would die, I would be eternally grateful, even if it took 9 months.

Applying this analogy properly - please find me a Mother that would not be hooked up to their baby son for 9 months and would rather him die instead.

Surely, this analogy hinges on the fact that this stranger is a completely random person (and the analogy tends towards the fact he is an adult) whereas, actually, we’re talking about our children here.

JD
 
The analogy doesn’t quite hold up, seeing as this “unknown stranger” is actually your son.

Even if someone had hooked me up to my son because if not He would die, I would be eternally grateful, even if it took 9 months.

Applying this analogy properly - please find me a Mother that would not be hooked up to their baby son for 9 months and would rather him die instead.

Surely, this analogy hinges on the fact that this stranger is a completely random person (and the analogy tends towards the fact he is an adult) whereas, actually, we’re talking about our children here.

JD
👍

Logistical prohibitions and the flawed analogy aside, the assumption is that one would not inconvenience one’s self to help a stranger. I’m not sure that there are not a significant number of people out there that wouldn’t inconvenience themselves for 9 months to save someone else’s life.
 
I’ve posted this analogy on a similar thread, and you might try it:
You own a lifeboat. It’s yours. You bring it on a ship. The ship sinks.
On your lifeboat, with limited food and water, you are attacked by pirates. A small child they were keeping hostage climbs aboard your boat as they escape with most of your supplies. It’s just you and the kid out at sea. Are you entitled to throw her overboard, on the grounds that you are the victim of a crime, on the grounds that you are short on supplies, or on the grounds that the lifeboat is yours and not hers? On any grounds at all, would it be, never mind right, just morally allowable to push the peaceful, trusting little girl into the deep sea to die?
 
Also, putting the discussion in context - only 1% of abortions are done because of rape. So, the political line for legalising abortion hardly reflects itself in reality.

JD
 
This is kind of a strange question, and a strange analogy.

While discussing abortion with a young guy I work with, he explained an analogy he learned in his philosophy class. It is a question that deals with aborting the unborn, in the case of rape. It is directed at pro-life people. I was unable to effectively answer it, because of it being a bizarre comparison. Here it is:

If you were told that you had to share your kidney for 9 months, with an unknown stranger, by having his failing kidney wired up to yours, in order for him to survive, would you do it?

What is your answer? I want to get back to him tomorrow. Thanks!
Tell him to come up with a better analogy, that one doesn’t even come close to being in line with the point he’s trying to make. Still, ask him if he’s implying that it would be okay for you to tear the stranger limb from limb (or throw acid on him, if the stranger was stronger than you) for having to share kidneys? His argument, lame as it is, cannot stand.

If the child is born and he/she resembles the rapist, does the mother have the right to kill the child?
An unborn baby isn’t a stranger, he or she is her child… The body she’d be butchering isn’t hers; it’s her son or daughter.
 
This is kind of a strange question, and a strange analogy.

While discussing abortion with a young guy I work with, he explained an analogy he learned in his philosophy class. It is a question that deals with aborting the unborn, in the case of rape. It is directed at pro-life people. I was unable to effectively answer it, because of it being a bizarre comparison. Here it is:

If you were told that you had to share your kidney for 9 months, with an unknown stranger, by having his failing kidney wired up to yours, in order for him to survive, would you do it?

What is your answer? I want to get back to him tomorrow. Thanks!
The way the question is phrased makes it sound like the person has a choice as to whether he agrees to share said kidney with said stranger. If the person agreed to do this, then they could hardly back out of the deal 12 weeks into the agreement.

Even if the person was unknowingly was hooked up to this other person’s kidney, how could they summarily decide to disconnect and kill the person if they knew the person would survive after nine months?

Even if the person was forced into sharing the kidney, again, how could one decide to kill the other person?

I would tell the person to get his money back from the tuition he paid for the philosophy class or come up with a better question.
 
This question likely has its roots in the Judith Jarvis Thompson’s abortion defense piece on the violinist. If you ask your buddy, he’ll likely say that the piece is where he got the idea. At any rate, there the question was, “If you were to awake after being abducted, strapped to a machine (for the foreseeable future) that was keeping a world-class violinist alive, would you have the right to unplug?”

Of course…the answer seems to be ‘Yes’.

Using this analogy, she then says that abortion is simply “unplugging” from the child, and therefore it’s OK. (In truth, it’s a sneaky application of the principle of double effect which when consistently applied does not implicate cases of abortion.)

Notice, also, that if you watch her tricks as she writes she says that you don’t have a right to bash in the violinist’s head. (“If someone threatens you with death unless you torture someone else to death, I think you have not the right, even to save your life, to do so. But the case under consideration here is very different.”)

Personally, I think latinmasslover has the right answer. Focus on what’s being done – burning with acid, dismemberment, etc., etc. It’s the intentional killing of an innocent human person. It’s emphatically not “letting die” or “unplugging” or “not giving a kidney”.

Turn the question around. Ask him, “When is it ok to intentionally kill an innocent human being?”

Wrong answers:

#1. When it could save someone’s life. Reply: “So should we round-up and kill everyone with AIDS? It would surely save lives to eradicate the disease…why would that be wrong?” or perhaps, “Ok. So when do we start forcing the homeless to do organ donations?”

#2. When it could save many more lives. Reply: “So it’s all right for a lynch mob to kill an innocent if it looks like the lynch mob will only get worse without it?”

#3. When it’s not really a life. Reply: “Oh, I though we were talking science, not science fiction. I didn’t realize you were bringing the undead into this. Actual biology only has two classifications - alive and dead. Is your unborn child already dead in your example?”

Right answer:
“It’s never morally permissible to intentionally kill an innocent human being.”

**
ADVICE:
Be aware of your words.

Intention **is important – negligence isn’t enough, and it’s not enough to intend something else with the death as an unavoidable and undesirable byproduct. **

Kill **is important – you’re not “letting die” or “unplugging”, you’re taking some positive action to end the innocent’s life. Like burning with acid or dismemberment.

**Innocent **is important – this doesn’t involve a death penalty discussion.

Finally, human being is important – and it’s at its core a scientifically demonstrable reality.

Good luck, and God Bless,
RyanL
 
This is kind of a strange question, and a strange analogy.

While discussing abortion with a young guy I work with, he explained an analogy he learned in his philosophy class. It is a question that deals with aborting the unborn, in the case of rape. It is directed at pro-life people. I was unable to effectively answer it, because of it being a bizarre comparison. Here it is:

If you were told that you had to share your kidney for 9 months, with an unknown stranger, by having his failing kidney wired up to yours, in order for him to survive, would you do it?

What is your answer? I want to get back to him tomorrow. Thanks!
Let me ask it to you:

Suppose you were out fishing by yourself in a cheap old aluminum boat and 4 kids (young and good looking) come by nearly flipping you with their wake from a 2 million dollar yacht. You do not like them at all. Then later they are sinking fast no one else is around, their yacht will be under in minutes. The water is cold, and they will be in the water even before you could reach them. THEY HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO YOUR BOAT. Do you help them?

#2) switch it so you own the yacht and they have the little boat and you nearly flipped them – did your answer change will you help them? (or you do flip them- Hey their boat was not sea worth, THEY HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO YOUR BOAT)

#3) Change something else- How can you change YOUR situation to arrive at an answer where you help them?

Your boat = her body, you can let them die,= she can kill her child. Neither you nor her can do the right thing and let the other die.
 
I would tell the person to get his money back from the tuition he paid for the philosophy class or come up with a better question.
ROFL!

St Cecilia’s I presume? (I know people who go there)
 
I think that is kind of a bad analogy this man asked you. First of all, this is not a “stranger” - it is your child too even if it was a result of something as horrible as rape. And it’s not like there is an adult tied to you through some tube going to both your kidneys keeping you attached and bedridden. I mean, that’s really a rediculous argument to me.

I am not dismissing rape victim’s feelings and I can’t judge them for what they do. But, they should at least attempt to think about this life that’s depending on them, an innocent child, which is still part of them and shares her genes.
 
Just a question.

What if the victim of the rape was a 13 year old little girl? What if she wasn’t able to bear the child without killing/injuring herself in the process? Say she had something wrong with her reproductive system. What if her body could not house the baby properly? She could either have the baby and die, or she could abort and continue to live.
I would abort.
Just my honest opinion.
 
Just a question.

What if the victim of the rape was a 13 year old little girl? What if she wasn’t able to bear the child without killing/injuring herself in the process? Say she had something wrong with her reproductive system. What if her body could not house the baby properly? She could either have the baby and die, or she could abort and continue to live.
I would abort.
Just my honest opinion.
Do you know a person who is in this situation?
 
Do you know a person who is in this situation?
Doubtful, but fringe, extremely rare hypotheticals are what the pro-death movement is based on.

Seeing as how the poster isn’t a pregnant thirteen year old victim of rape, their opinion is moot.
 
It’s probably the anti-religion trying to poke holes in your beliefs.

Wiccans tend to do such things.
Anti-religion?

When did that ever come up? I asked an honest question. Which I am still waiting for a legitimate answer to.
I wasn’t poking holes in anyone’s religion.
Where is your place to poke holes in mine?
 
Just a question.

What if the victim of the rape was a 13 year old little girl? What if she wasn’t able to bear the child without killing/injuring herself in the process? Say she had something wrong with her reproductive system. What if her body could not house the baby properly? She could either have the baby and die, or she could abort and continue to live.
I would abort.
Just my honest opinion.
Make every effort to keep both alive until the baby could be saved. Deliver by C-section and place the baby in an incubator. Keep the young mother in the ICU until she has healed. Most cases of malformed or extremely immature reproductive systems lead to miscarriage or delivery by C-section.
I know a couple of girls who had abortions at 13, and it wasn’t easy on them. Abortion injures young mothers as well, and leaves them in the wake of the death of their babies.
 
If you were told that you had to share your kidney for 9 months, with an unknown stranger, by having his failing kidney wired up to yours, in order for him to survive, would you do it?

What is your answer?
Yes.
 
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