Abortion Debate Cancelled by York University Student Union

[Migueliones]

I’ve tried to reply to everyone, hope I haven’t missed anyone out. I have a Spanish exchange student arriving tomorrow so I shan’t be on for a while but I’ll be sure to reply in a week when he’s gone home again.

That won’t cut it in a debate. You are essentially saying “trust me, there is a difference.” I’ll need proof from science, since that is where they base their argument.
Well it is an established scientific fact that teenagers are in fact living human beings.

Sure, but won’t acknowledge it, since it stems from religious sources. Since many people don’t believe in God, using Him as proof won’t carry any weight. But so what? Just because they refuse to believe the truth doesn’t make it any less true.
Well a religious source doesn’t cut it, no.

it is called making a point. If their only defense is “well, one is just disgusting!”, then they really have no argument at all, and can be highlighted as such.
Going overboard on emotion detracts from a very valid argument, IMO.

Not true. Their biggest asset is that they are fueled by Satan, and have free will. He is a powerful ally, when freely chosen. This is what keeps them afloat. Not logic. Not science. Not truth.
**Right. **

“Baka”, it just rolls off the tongue doesn’t it?

People support legalized abortion because what it means in terms of power over nature and its ties to “Nietzsche in a Skirt” Feminism.

The thing is, people don’t just support aborting a zygote, most who want to keep it legal think it’d be okay to kill a 7 month old viable baby as well. Something that is obviously alive.
"Most"? Really?

I know you’re on this whole “I’m an atheist now” convert’s zeal kick, but why not go to peterkreeft.com and go to his audio section, and listen to his reasoned argument against abortion.
**Excuse me? How rude. I love the way you presume to know what I’m thinking. I happen to be “pro-life” too. Again, I love the way the fact I don’t respond to hysteria, and emotional arguments or “Satan” must make me a pro-choicer. resists urge to post roll eyes smiley

I’ve listened to Peter Kreeft before actually. In fact, I’ve used him in a debate myself!**

Oh, no you won’t do that, because it’d threaten your identity.
**Like I say, done it before. resists urge to type "btch" ***

Are you denying the multitude of people who already support killing infants after birth? And that these people remain politically, legally and medically well-informed so as to ensure their opinions on who is to be killed and why can be forced upon the rest of the populace?
Really? Where are these people? This “multitude”?

That is a very strong refutation to attempt to take.

What is your opinion of the Dutch and their legalisation of killing infants who are either disabled or who show a future poor quality of life? Unlike Hitler, who required three doctors to sign off on the decision, the Dutch only require two doctors. This is also supposed to go up to 12 years of age.

Hmm…12 years…sounds awful close to those teen people you mention in your post…
Again, an assumption has been made about MY position. I’d be opposed.

You think pro-life only has morality and religion on their side.
I do? Thanks for telling me what I think, cathgal. I wouldn’t have known myself.

Have you taken a course in embryology ??
Nope!

That’s science for you.
All right.

Real hard facts if you care to acknowledge it
Well I will. Can you point me to them please?

Read Peter Singer - this is the exact argument he uses to endorse infanticide. Notice that it doesn’t matter what people actually think or support, what matters is the moral consistency of their position. The other side would lose, presumably, because the position that abortion is permissible and infanticide is not, is not itself a coherent position. It is a hodgepodge moral view, unprincipled and clearly false.
Once the foetus becomes a human being they would be opposed to an abortion. Getting rid of something which is not yet human [to them] is not the same as killing a child sat in front of you. Personally, I don’t think an abortion and killing a child in front of me are the same either. But I’ve always thought that, even when I was Catholic. Ah wells.

 

[He_Man]

I’ve tried to reply to everyone, hope I haven’t missed anyone out. I have a Spanish exchange student arriving tomorrow so I shan’t be on for a while but I’ll be sure to reply in a week when he’s gone home again.

That won’t cut it in a debate. You are essentially saying “trust me, there is a difference.” I’ll need proof from science, since that is where they base their argument.

Well it is an established scientific fact that teenagers are in fact living human beings.

Says who? This is what arguing with people advocating murder for children is like. They don’t accept anything, they just keep moving the line to fit their screwed up belief.

Sure, but won’t acknowledge it, since it stems from religious sources. Since many people don’t believe in God, using Him as proof won’t carry any weight. But so what? Just because they refuse to believe the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Well a religious source doesn’t cut it, no.

Why not? Just because you disavow God’s existence or morality doesn’t make it any less true.

it is called making a point. If their only defense is “well, one is just disgusting!”, then they really have no argument at all, and can be highlighted as such.

Going overboard on emotion detracts from a very valid argument, IMO.

What argument? Again, saying “well duh” is not an argument.

Not true. Their biggest asset is that they are fueled by Satan, and have free will. He is a powerful ally, when freely chosen. This is what keeps them afloat. Not logic. Not science. Not truth.

***Right. ***

Much like God, disavowing Satan or his hand in people’s lives doesn’t change reality. Satan knows you exist; you really would do well to acknowledge him too…

 

[cathgal]

Real hard facts if you care to acknowledge it
Well I will. Can you point me to them please?

I thought I’ve told you.

If you can’t take a course in embryology, then check out a book as such from the library, or buy one.

 

[cathgal]

Personally, I don’t think an abortion and killing a child in front of me are the same either. But I’ve always thought that, even when I was Catholic. Ah wells.

Of course it’s not the same.

One is unable to breathe by himself outside the womb, and one is fully able to.

You think abortion is killing a chicken egg or something ?

Again I ask, if you abort that ‘something’, would you see a child in 9 months ???

I wonder what you were once…before you became a human

 

[Ender]

For those who think the scientific debate is still open as to when life begins here are some quotes on the subject. The URL contains a much more extensive list of citations if the few I have included are unconvincing. Notice that for the two textbooks cited the statement about the beginning of life is considered so basic it is presented in the very first pages.

“The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual.”
[Carlson, Bruce M. *Patten’s Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

        "Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as *fertilization* (conception).

[Moore, Keith L. *Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). *Van Nostrand’s Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

Ender