Abortion Doctor Murdered

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Gottle_of_Geer said:

When I think of the Hell that the CC has put children through in Ireland & elsewhere, the OP’s post makes my blood boil :mad: The Church’s​

attitude has been so unChristian that it beggars imagination.
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The revelations coming out of Ireland are hideous and very disturbing. I recently read a article by a Catholic priest, (I apparently failed to save it anywhere) in which he said something is terribly amiss in the church as of late with these horrors coming out.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
The revelations coming out of Ireland are hideous and very disturbing. I recently read a article by a Catholic priest, (I apparently failed to save it anywhere) in which he said something is terribly amiss in the church as of late with these horrors coming out.
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Yes, it would appear that things are terribly amiss all over the place. Sin abounds - and the people who did evil things in Ireland are unfortunatly not unique - nor do they represent the countless good Catholics who would never dream of doing such horrid things. No more so than the Lutheran abortionist and his church which accepted $ earned in the slaughter of unborn babies represents all Lutherans. One might say the that is an example of all that is wrong in the Lutheran Church but that would be completly unfair, wouldn’t it?
 
My thoughts can be summed up in a simple, timeless phrase: “two wrongs don’t make a right.”

Clearly the man who killed Dr. Tiller has a fundamental misunderstanding of his faith if he is willing to go to those extremes.

Clearly Dr. Tiller had a fundamental misunderstanding of his faith if he thought abortion on demand was kosher.

By and large I am more outraged at the gunman, because he deprived Dr. Tiller of the natural lifespan God gave him, and thus deprived him of his full chance to find truth. Some will say “he had his chance, he had years,” but many people continually spend the majority of their lives in sin, only to find their way to the truth later in life. Dr. Tiller, and any sinner really, deserves the full natural span of their lives. He may not have repented, but it was a possibility, and if Jesus’ ministry tells us anything, it’s that even the most depraved among us can turn on a dime, at any moment, God willing. I won’t defend anything Dr. Tiller did in the course of his “work;” I find it as abhorrent as most of you.

The gunman, who will hopefully spend the rest of his days in jail, will have plenty of time to reflect on his misunderstanding of the christian faith. That and violence in church shows a fundamental lack of respect for christian fellowship. To walk up and shoot an usher in a church service, regardless of who he is, is obscene.

Somebody failed that gunman, and somebody ultimately failed Dr. Tiller too. Both of them were nominally christian, and yet both continued in their misunderstandings.

It’s a tragic situation no matter what angle you look at it from.
 
reteeks21 said:
Call me cruel, mean, or whatever you want, but in my opinion he got what he deserved. He engaged in murder on a daily basis, and we all reap what we sow. It’s not so much that he performed abortions in the past, but he continually did it knowing that he was killing children and he had NO remorse for it. And for people he went to church with to call him a good Christian man is just insane! Sorry, but he got what he deserved.
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That’s terrible. No one deserves to be murdered. Remember the Ten Commandments. “Thou shalt not kill.” He was an evil man, let God sort him out.
 
A robber gets robbed… an abortionist was ‘aborted’!
Nothing new under the sun!
Go and sin no more…
 
yellowbird said:
I view the abortion doctors and the nazi camp guards in a similar way.
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Alright, but what do you say to the specific question I raised (or that reteeks raised, depending how you look at it)? I.e.
But for those of you who do consider abortion comparable to the Sheol, what do you think? Can a comparison be made between the killing of George Tiller two days ago, and reteek’s hypothetical killing of a Nazi during WWII?
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Bob_Crowley said:
I thnk Tiller’s in Hell myself. He was quite prepared to accept Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for his own sake, but didn’t show one ounce of mercy to the children he killed. And these were children who could have been delivered by caeserian surgery and lived, in a lot of cases.

To be honest, I think his punishment will be worse than that of an atheist in the same position. I had the experience of my father turning up the night he died, he apologised, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave the most terrifying scream I’ve ever seen, then disappeared. His main sin, as far as I know, was cruelty to his own family. Tiller was quite happily engaging in the wilful destruction of human life.

That doesn’t excuse the murderer. But I remember my old Protestant pastor’s comments at one stage, “I think they (Catholics) soft-pedal judgment”. I think we’re going to find the judgment pretty tough when we get there ourselves.
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Wow, what a horrifying story. Am I reading this correctly? You argued and conversed after his death? Then he disappeared in a scream?
Or did you mean you argued and then he screamed, and then died?

Either way, the thought of my father suffering in hell would haunt me, despite any cruelty I have experienced over my life from him.

I have an empty, hollow, sick feeling about the murder of George Tiller and the thought of hell, if that is in fact his fate. It’s hard to explain- it’s as if this pervasive, deep evil has exploded in the face of another erratic evil, and it leaves a haze over everything. The people who live in Wichita have been reluctant to talk about it. At work, everyone is deadly silent. All except the most outspoken people are afraid to even broach the subject in a public forum, unless they are in a forum like this, and they are talking among peers who probably share their view.

I have to admit I don’t enjoy the thought of what he has faced in death. I imagine he is facing every one of those lives that were taken, and every person affected by the deaths of those babies.
 
yellowbird said:
Yes, it would appear that things are terribly amiss all over the place. Sin abounds - and the people who did evil things in Ireland are unfortunatly not unique - nor do they represent the countless good Catholics who would never dream of doing such horrid things. No more so than the Lutheran abortionist and his church which accepted $ earned in the slaughter of unborn babies represents all Lutherans. One might say the that is an example of all that is wrong in the Lutheran Church but that would be completly unfair, wouldn’t it?
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Your jumping a few guns there. You’re getting all bent out of shape because a non-
RCC has said something critical of the RCC. I but repeat what is said by a RC about his own church. I never implied whatsoever that no other faith has issues on various things that it cannot be proud of. But I think you cannot equate the Lutheran Church with the RCC in this regard. To accept donations to the basket from one whom you might well believe to be a sinner is not on the same par as proporting to care for children under the auspices of a church, while representing the church as religious, all the while horribly mistreating and abusing those children. You again have jumped a number of hills to assume that somehow this means that all the millions of wonderful Catholics are some how declared part of the problem. That’s truly absurd. This paranoia that cannot allow criticism where it is well placed is not helpful at all. It would attempt to some how justify it. It’s like saying, you are not allowed to point out obvious failings because we don’t want to hear it. That is the problem, the pretending that has gone on that these things haven’t occurred. Each and every church regardless of denominiation who finds abusers within its clergy and religious needs to be call them out. When it is individuals, they must be exposed and dismissed, they cannot be “covered” up by sending them off to new churches.
 
Angels_Unaware said:
Wow, what a horrifying story. Am I reading this correctly? You argued and conversed after his death? Then he disappeared in a scream?
Or did you mean you argued and then he screamed, and then died?

Either way, the thought of my father suffering in hell would haunt me, despite any cruelty I have experienced over my life from him.

I have an empty, hollow, sick feeling about the murder of George Tiller and the thought of hell, if that is in fact his fate. It’s hard to explain- it’s as if this pervasive, deep evil has exploded in the face of another erratic evil, and it leaves a haze over everything. The people who live in Wichita have been reluctant to talk about it. At work, everyone is deadly silent. All except the most outspoken people are afraid to even broach the subject in a public forum, unless they are in a forum like this, and they are talking among peers who probably share their view.

I have to admit I don’t enjoy the thought of what he has faced in death. I imagine he is facing every one of those lives that were taken, and every person affected by the deaths of those babies.
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You’re reading the story correctly. He died in a suburb called Nundah (Brisbane, Qld, Australia) and I lived a few kilometres away in another suburb called Yeronga. I was atheist at the time incidentally.

Anyway I was trying to get to sleep on a hot January night, when I felt something shake me on the back. I turned over and as I did so my father started to materialise near the door of my bedroom.

To cut a long story short, he started with an apology for the way he’d treated me, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this terrifying scream and then disappeared. While this was happening he seemed to be brough closer to me so the lesson was rammed home, as I wasn’t living a very moral life myself at the time. However being an atheist I didn’t believe what I’d seen, despite his saying at one time in response to one of my questions. “No, it’s not a dream. I died tonight.” He actually looked a bit bemused as he said it.

Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he’d died. The four day gap was because his body wasn’t found for four days, so it was a mess. But I still remember turning towards the door and thinking “What the hell was that the other night”.

Judgment is real. The scream was so terrifying I started to scream. Then he disappeared.

As I said, I wouldn’t like to be in Tiller’s shoes.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
You’re reading the story correctly. He died in a suburb called Nundah (Brisbane, Qld, Australia) and I lived a few kilometres away in another suburb called Yeronga. I was atheist at the time incidentally.

Anyway I was trying to get to sleep on a hot January night, when I felt something shake me on the back. I turned over and as I did so my father started to materialise near the door of my bedroom.

To cut a long story short, he started with an apology for the way he’d treated me, we argued and conversed, and at the end he gave this terrifying scream and then disappeared. While this was happening he seemed to be brough closer to me so the lesson was rammed home, as I wasn’t living a very moral life myself at the time. However being an atheist I didn’t believe what I’d seen, despite his saying at one time in response to one of my questions. “No, it’s not a dream. I died tonight.” He actually looked a bit bemused as he said it.

Four days later my uncle turned up to tell me he’d died. The four day gap was because his body wasn’t found for four days, so it was a mess. But I still remember turning towards the door and thinking “What the hell was that the other night”.

Judgment is real. The scream was so terrifying I started to scream. Then he disappeared.

As I said, I wouldn’t like to be in Tiller’s shoes.
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I might add I’m not the only person to witness someone “materialising”. I used to be Presbyterian, and I remember a personal testimony given by a former homosexual that on his second, dead serious suicide attempt, Christ materialised in the corner of the room, moved towards him and somehow merged. From that time on he never even had to struggle with the temptation, was married, and had a couple of young kids (they’re probably in their twenties now).

It seems he had become Christian, but had been dragged back into the homosexual lifestyle. Hence the suicide attempt.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
I might add I’m not the only person to witness someone “materialising”. I used to be Presbyterian, and I remember a personal testimony given by a former homosexual that on his second, dead serious suicide attempt, Christ materialised in the corner of the room, moved towards him and somehow merged. From that time on he never even had to struggle with the temptation, was married, and had a couple of young kids (they’re probably in their twenties now).

It seems he had become Christian, but had been dragged back into the homosexual lifestyle. Hence the suicide attempt.
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I believe you, Bob. I hope you know as a Catholic you are permitted to offer prayers for your father, even though you do believe he is in hell. There is always the hope and possibility of purgatory, even if it seems unlikely. I just wanted to tell you that.

I have never seen a ghost, or had a similar experience, but one November 1 during the evening All Saints Day mass, a family member of each one of the departed, (and there were at least two dozen), brought a candle to the front of the church to symbolize the passing of that member of our parish.

My younger daughter was with me. Both of us suddenly felt very clearly and strongly the hair stand up on the back our neck, and an odd dizzy sensation, and then the idea that the departed being honored that night were really present in spirit with us, watching the service.

We cannot come to the conclusion this actually happened with any certainty, and it was not imagination, but I don’t think it was.
 
My two cents: Jesus said that “Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.” This is preceisely what happened to that butcher. His only hope is if he repented with his last breath.
 
Angels_Unaware said:
I have never seen a ghost, or had a similar experience, but one November 1 during the evening All Saints Day mass, a family member of each one of the departed, (and there were at least two dozen), brought a candle to the front of the church to symbolize the passing of that member of our parish.

My younger daughter was with me. Both of us suddenly felt very clearly and strongly the hair stand up on the back our neck, and an odd dizzy sensation, and then the idea that the departed being honored that night were really present in spirit with us, watching the service.
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All Saints Day is my most favorite holy day. I am always touched by the holy Ghost when I attend Mass on that day. God changed my life in a very clear and radical way one All Saints Day many years ago. That day is blessed with many graces, and mercies.
 
The problem with pro-abortion folks is that they think unborn babies are inhuman. The problem with Hitler and the Nazis is they think Jews are inhuman. The problem with racists is they think other races are inhuman. All these folks think they are right, they are all dead wrong. May God have mercy on their souls.
 
It is a dilemma, for folks who equate abortion with murder. While someone may be compelled to act in order to save an innocent life IF they can prevent a murder, we do not feel so obligated when we know about a practicing abortionist. Why is that ?

First off, we are not a vigilante society. We do not take the law into own hands, and we are not the judge, jury, and executioner. Even the most heinous killer deserves their day in court.

Second, all life is precious. As someone said, it could be that down the road the abortionist may see the errors of his ways and repent. No matter how remote, it is not our right to take vengance for the Lord.
 
wcknight said:
It is a dilemma, for folks who equate abortion with murder. While someone may be compelled to act in order to save an innocent life IF they can prevent a murder, we do not feel so obligated when we know about a practicing abortionist. Why is that ?

First off, we are not a vigilante society. We do not take the law into own hands, and we are not the judge, jury, and executioner. Even the most heinous killer deserves their day in court.

Second, all life is precious. As someone said, it could be that down the road the abortionist may see the errors of his ways and repent. No matter how remote, it is not our right to take vengance for the Lord.
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Right you are!, If we as indivduals respond in like kind to murder, then that is revenge. Society must “pull the lever”. I would not want ot be on that jury however, I would have a hard time convicting if I was convinced that the motive of the shooter was to save lives in “imminent danger”.
 
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