Abortion: Even the non-religious should be against it

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Abortion, to me, is one of the most disgusting, evil things that is done in this world. I will never, ever, ever be “alright” with abortion in the sense that I won’t actively oppose it. There will be people that say, “Oh, don’t you push your religion on me!”

As if there weren’t secular reasons for opposing abortion.

In 1998, I had a little baby brother who was born a few months premature (my mother is very, very against abortion, she hates abortion.) and, although he passed away during a surgery sadly about 3 weeks after he was born (The doctors did all they could, it was an unavoidable accident. I hold nothing against the doctors, they were heartbroken), he taught me so much. I was only about 7 years old, and yet I felt like I gained much maturity from my little brother.

Once I learned what abortion truly was, I thought back to my little brother and how, while it wouldn’t seem like a little baby could change so much, he gave so much to the world. I remember reading about how the doctors who had tried their best went on to find new ways to help premature babies, and I can’t help but feel like my little brother had something to do with that. I thought to how my family was taught so much by him, how he taught the world more than I will ever know.

He taught me the value of life, no matter how long or how short it lasts.

So, I immediately came to the opinion that abortion was a profound evil, a most horrible crime that has costed society so many lives that we will never know the magnitude of the great things these lives that were cut down could have done. People say, “Oh, well, a lot of them might have been born into poverty, and would have fallen into crime.”

I spit upon such an argument. People seem to forget the great difference one person can make. We might have lost someone that would have become a leader in their community, who might have helped fight crime and bring people out of poverty. A lot of people’s ancestors lived in poverty. Maybe they should have just had abortions right?

Of course not! They realized that while they may be poor, they can try to help their kids learn skills they can’t, and thus that way, their children can have a chance at a better life! That’s what our ancestors did! They worked and toiled, they had kids and were loving to them.

Even more despicable is the argument that “A woman has the right to do what she wants with her body!”

Her body? HER BODY?! She is not affecting her body, she is affecting a completely separate human being! The fetus is not “her body” but it’s its own body. Where did this most blind argument come from? Who was so illogical to come up with this premise?

If a fetus is a part of the mother’s body, then why isn’t a newborn? Why isn’t a child?

And don’t say, “Well, the newborn isn’t dependent upon the mother.” You deserve a light slap for that falsehood. Of course newborns are dependent upon their mothers! Of course children are dependent upon their mothers! I have yet to hear of a newborn, that, upon birth, said to his/her mom, “Thanks, Mom, well, I’m off to explore the world, good luck to you!” But does that mean that a newborn or a child is a part of the mother’s body? Of course not.

The location of the person relative to the mother does not matter: The fetus is no less an individual than a child is. The fetus is a whole different person from the mother. That’s why the argument “It’s a women’s right to do what she wants with her body,” is so full of it. Logic disagrees completely, not because a woman doesn’t have a right to do what she wants with her body, but because abortion kills a completely unique individual. It does not kill the mother (Usually. I’m sure there have been abortions that have killed the mother, which shows even more why it’s a horrible practice)

I seriously wonder when the concept that a fetus and the mother are the same person was thought up. Were the people who came up with that on something?

People say, “Oh, but what about overpopulation?!”

Okay, what about overpopulation? Is abortion the only answer to that? Is birth control the only answer to that?

What ever happened to, you know, not having sex? You know, keeping your pants zipped up, protecting your virginity, practicing abstinence?

What’s that? People have sexual urges? They don’t want to bother fighting them? Oh, how unfortunate, I guess their right to sexual pleasure is more important than a human being’s right to life. I feel so bad for those people.

The fact that people are that weak, are that pathetic, that they can’t even show some self-control and remain unlatched from another person’s crotch, is simply just sad. It’s called growing up, being mature, having some responsibility. You know, putting others ahead of yourself?

Why is it a good thing for people to be completely controlled by their urges and impulses? Isn’t it bad to just do whatever you feel like you wanna do? Isn’t that really having less freedom than being in control of your urges and impulses? People act like self-control is some sort of limitation, when really, it is an indication that one has great willpower and is able to act based on reason.

Now, am I saying that I think people that let their sexual urges control them or occasionally fall to those urges are bad people? No. They aren’t bad people. I realize self-control is a difficult thing to do. But just because something is difficult doesn’t mean there is no point in trying to master it. I know that no one’s perfect. But that doesn’t make it an excuse. You still should put some effort into it.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m the misguided one. Maybe I am limited by self-control.

But, I still think that there’s some good, non-religious reasons for chastity.
 
I always have a good chuckle at the “Its a woman’s body” rubbish!

Essentially, what they’re saying is 50% of pregnant women have a pen1$.

Hah.

But there actually a group, atheists and agnostics for life. The most impressive pro-lifer I’ve ever met was an agnostic.

God rest his soul, he passed away just last year in a plane crash.
 
Religion really does not have a differance in the abortion view, I know plenty of athiests and pagens who are fairly staunchly anti-abortion, and yet I know of a “minister” who feels its her obligation to teach that abortion is a good thing.
 
Religion really does not have a differance in the abortion view, I know plenty of athiests and pagens who are fairly staunchly anti-abortion, and yet I know of a “minister” who feels its her obligation to teach that abortion is a good thing.
With abortion being the fruit of the tree of contraception it is amazing to me that some Catholics in positions of authority don’t teach or practice Church teachings.

God Bless You.
 
That was amazing!!!:clapping:

I just don’t understand how people can accept such things. They call it logic. I call it…maybe I shouldn’t say it here lol.

It is selfishness not logic that drives abortion:sad_yes:
 
Wouldn’t it be nice if everything was that black and white in the real world.

Unfortunately it is not. The bottom line is mothers DO have the right to an abortion, and it IS the mothers body, and it IS the mothers choice.

Abortion is sometimes the better choice, and is a right that will never be taken away from the mother.
 
I agree that abortion is wrong, but what about someone who was raped, or about 13 years old?

I have seen the effects of rape and on the family of that person. It’s devastating, so I can understand why someone would not want to keep that baby, but I still know that it’s wrong to kill another human being, no matter at what stage of development they are at.

What are you opinions?
 
Wouldn’t it be nice if everything was that black and white in the real world.

Unfortunately it is not. The bottom line is mothers DO have the right to an abortion, and it IS the mothers body, and it IS the mothers choice.

Abortion is sometimes the better choice, and is a right that will never be taken away from the mother.
But, it is not the mother’s body, it is the fetus! The mother’s body indeed is carrying the child, but that’s a result of sexual intercourse: The things that you do in life will have results. One of the possible results of sexual intercourse is pregnancy. Why is it that we should avoid these consequences (It’s sad that we even consider a pregnancy a “consequence” when really it is a blessing)? Does not each right have a responsibility? Why this care-free attitude? Why is it always about “me, myself, and I?” Why are we so blinded by selfishness that we see everything as a right?

I am sick of this constant “I have a choice, I have a choice!” argument. Yeah, you did have a choice: You could have chosen to have sex or not have sex. You had sex. Therefore, accept all the responsibilities that come with that choice. Abortion is never the better choice.
 
I agree that abortion is wrong, but what about someone who was raped, or about 13 years old?

I have seen the effects of rape and on the family of that person. It’s devastating, so I can understand why someone would not want to keep that baby, but I still know that it’s wrong to kill another human being, no matter at what stage of development they are at.

What are you opinions?
Abortion is always wrong.

A woman, or even a child who is pregnant from rape, an abortion is not going to “unrape” her. All it will do will remove the sad, obvious reality from those around her, so others dont’ have to deal with her trauma. The pro-abortion mindset has worked hard to lull society, and even many a “pro-lifer” into this ideal that women who are raped and pregnant want abortions, while it is true in some cases, it is not true in the majority.

And even if all women who were raped and prego were desperating wanting an abortion, abortions for rape only accounts for 0.3% of the 1.2 million abortions done annunally (Guttmacher Institute. 2008,). It is such a small number, but the pro-aborts have made it such a big drum banging situtation as to have pro-lifers doubting their resolve.

Rape is a circumstance, albeit a hideous one. But all abortions are the result of some circumstance, what makes rape an abortiable circumstance over say a woman who’s husband has just died, leaving her without a main income, pregnant and already with several kids? We all allow abortion for one circumstance, dictating the humanity or lack of it of teh unborn based on one circumstance, we must allow it for all.

Women who are pregnant from rape, they do not need abortions, they need love, compassion and all the support we can give them, both as friends and family, and as society, women who are raped and pregnant, stats show many want to keep their chidlren, but it is this “oh, who would want to keep their rapist’s baby, I bet they’re lying” mindset that drives women to this.

A friend of mine I went to school with was raped by her uncle when she was 11, she was pregnant, she kept the pregnancy and place the bub for a sort of in-family adoption.

And quite frankly, we should all be disgusted at how the pro-abortion movement has taken the most horrific event a woman can go through, rape, and turn it into one of their clevely worded, sob story excuses for child murder. Both society and the pro-life movement must fight this tactic of the pro-abortion lobby, it is most decidely NOT pro-woman.

But long and short of it, the numbers just dont’ support a rape exception.
 
I agree that abortion is wrong, but what about someone who was raped, or about 13 years old?

I have seen the effects of rape and on the family of that person. It’s devastating, so I can understand why someone would not want to keep that baby, but I still know that it’s wrong to kill another human being, no matter at what stage of development they are at.

What are you opinions?
The Church, as far as I can tell, doesn’t allow abortion at all as the primary objective of a medical procedure. If a procedure is needed to save a mother’s life, but would result in the termination of pregnancy, this is allowable as the main goal is to save the mother’s life. The abortion is a tragic effect of this, but there is a greater good.

Now, when it comes to rape, the Church does allow one to use contraception (or a medical procedure to kill the sperm) if they are reasonably sure the woman isn’t pregnant yet.

If the victim is found to be pregnant, then abortion is not to be undertaken. However, most women, in such an event, are often under such trauma and stress that they are unable to truly give full consent to sin, thus, if they were to ask for an abortion, they would probably not be guilty of mortal sin as they would be so traumatized that they could not be expected to make a rational choice. Of course, this isn’t an absolute rule. If a woman is truly able to fully consent to her decisions, then mortal sin does come into play if she chooses to have an abortion. I do trust in God’s mercy in these situations, but I do trust in the Church.
 
Unfortunately it is not. The bottom line is mothers DO have the right to an abortion, and it IS the mothers body, and it IS the mothers choice.
Legally, yes. Just as it was once a man’s legal choice to own a slave, just as it was a Nazi’s legal choice to bludgeon a Jew in the street.

And to choose to end the life of another human being, how can that ever be right?
Abortion is sometimes the better choice, and is a right that will never be taken away from the mother.
Once upon child exposure was sometimes a better choice, it was a right people argued would never be taken away from families.

History shows us that societies that kill their children do not survive. We are already at below replacement birth levels. It is only a matter of time before our society subcumbs to history’s well taught lesson.

Either we destory ourselves, or we save ourselves by saving our unborn children.

Abortion will always exist, just as rape will always exist, just as murder. Making something illegal will not stop it, it will only limit it to the most defective of moralities.
 
Now, when it comes to rape, the Church does allow one to use contraception (or a medical procedure to kill the sperm) if they are reasonably sure the woman isn’t pregnant yet.

If the victim is found to be pregnant, then abortion is not to be undertaken. However, most women, in such an event, are often under such trauma and stress that they are unable to truly give full consent to sin, thus, if they were to ask for an abortion, they would probably not be guilty of mortal sin as they would be so traumatized that they could not be expected to make a rational choice.
I have heard about this before. It is true that contraception/abortion won’t change what has happened.

Her flash backs and outbursts of throwing things out of the window to me, are a form of insanity. I think that judgement is altered when you’re traumatised, meaning that it could be an ‘ignorant sin’.
 
Read Nat Hentoff-a Jewish athiest civil libertarian pro-lifer. Google Nat Hentoff & Pro-life.

Also a great jazz critic.
 
Read Nat Hentoff-a Jewish athiest civil libertarian pro-lifer. Google Nat Hentoff & Pro-life.

Also a great jazz critic.
I found it interesting how his friends and company for 50 years The Village Voice, just shunned him when they found out he was against abortion. Kind of shows just how loyal these people can be.

I hate it when people decide they can’t be friends because of political disagreements. It is one of the saddest things to see.
 
I hate it when people decide they can’t be friends because of political disagreements. It is one of the saddest things to see.
Yeah, what’s with that? I’ve met a lot of pro-lifers lately who have basically said I’m hell bound and not a true pro-lifer because I have pro-abortion friends.

I find you learn more through friendships with those of an opposing views, then surroundign yourself with people who think exactly like you.
 
Yeah, what’s with that? I’ve met a lot of pro-lifers lately who have basically said I’m hell bound and not a true pro-lifer because I have pro-abortion friends.

I find you learn more through friendships with those of an opposing views, then surroundign yourself with people who think exactly like you.
Indeed. Additionally, aren’t we to also hope that we might inspire them and help them see the error of the ways? The moment we decide to close ourselves off from the world is the moment when we truly fail to live as Christ did.
 
Indeed. Additionally, aren’t we to also hope that we might inspire them and help them see the error of the ways? The moment we decide to close ourselves off from the world is the moment when we truly fail to live as Christ did.
I know there are a few phrases in the bible in various books that state we are to avoid friendships with people of lesser morals, but how are we to change them and bring them to Christ if we shun them? Jesus himself hung out with those considered teh “scum” of His time.
 
But, it is not the mother’s body, it is the fetus! The mother’s body indeed is carrying the child, but that’s a result of sexual intercourse: The things that you do in life will have results. One of the possible results of sexual intercourse is pregnancy. Why is it that we should avoid these consequences (It’s sad that we even consider a pregnancy a “consequence” when really it is a blessing)? Does not each right have a responsibility? Why this care-free attitude? Why is it always about “me, myself, and I?” Why are we so blinded by selfishness that we see everything as a right?
Well if you care to re-read your first post you can see it is all bout me me me. Like you said “Why are we so blinded by selfishness that we see everything as a right”.
I am sick of this constant “I have a choice, I have a choice!” argument. Yeah, you did have a choice: You could have chosen to have sex or not have sex. You had sex. Therefore, accept all the responsibilities that come with that choice. Abortion is never the better choice.
Well to be frank it IS the mother body and it is NOTHING to do with you what she does with it. A fetus is not a baby, it is a blob of cells. It has no feelings, no awareness, feels nothing, knows nothing. It is no more human than a sperm cell is a human. Which means by your rational every time a man masturbates he kills 500,000,000 potential babies.
 
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