Abortion has been made illegal! What happens now?

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Marietta - More feelings. Nothing more than feelings. No science, no philosophy, no law…no nothing. Just feelings.

I have conversed with more than few people who share your feelings. Every time, anyone who questions the validity of living by feelings gets accused of being cruel, (or, as was said in another thread) “anti-woman” (oh, that’s fraught, isn’t it?), “on a power trip”, yadda yadda yadda.

I’ve got a thick skin, I don’t care how you feel about me, about anything. You’re the enemy. You are a person whose feelings lead to violent ends, it doesn’t matter how. In history, there’s an endless procession of people whose feelings lead them to do atrocious things or support or recommend atrocious things.

That’s why I opt of the entire feelings thing. It’s not safe. Not for anyone. Especially not for the powerless. Eventually, someone will *feel *that someone else doesn’t really need to live.

Now, we can all hear how you* feel *about me. Yawn.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

It would go underground. Abortion is a bad thing, but for the woman to die as well as the baby is no better. That would happen, because it’s what used to happen: women had back-street abortions, & often died.​

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This is propaganda; it never happened. More people have died of legal abortions than ever died of illegal “back alley” abortions.
I suppose sterilisation could be made compulsory; otherwise, there are going to be unwanted children who are going to be killed in the womb. Given the conditions in which some have to grow up, this might not be such a bad idea.
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Right, yeah. If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis, what would you say to her?

Abort … Don’t abort
 
adamsapple said:
It’s amazing that so many people on this board do not support Catholic education. Next to the family, it is the heart and soul of Catholic formation.
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Meh, I beg to differ. Neither of my parents regularly attended mass and I went to public school and I would consider myself a “better” Catholic (if you want to put it that way, maybe “more devout” would be closer) than most kids I know who went to Catholic schools.

In my mind, Catholic school = lots of money + Jesuits = Not the best environment for genuine Catholicism…

Pardon my candor but that’s just my experience.
 
OnlyAmbrose said:
Meh, I beg to differ. Neither of my parents regularly attended mass and I went to public school and I would consider myself a “better” Catholic (if you want to put it that way, maybe “more devout” would be closer) than most kids I know who went to Catholic schools.

In my mind, Catholic school = lots of money + Jesuits = Not the best environment for genuine Catholicism…

Pardon my candor but that’s just my experience.
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Those of us who went to public school always knew who the enemy was. Catholic schools, by necessity, have to mix the evil in with the good, and the kids often don’t learn to discern between the two.
 
Howard Roark:

You want law? Current law favors the pro-choice side. I am pro-choice. There’s your law.

You want science? The principle of abortion is a moral and political question, one which cannot be satisfactorily resolved by science. There’s your “science”.

You spew, “You are a person whose feelings lead to violent ends, it doesn’t matter how.” Such a broad statement, Howard. Such a supposition. Such bunk. You think you know me? What otherworldly experience have you suddenly had that leads you to believe that you know me? Is it that I disagree with you? :slapfight: Or that I’m “The Enemy”?! :mad: How silly.

You’ve got a thick skin solely to protect yourself against feeling anything, ever. You said it yourself: * “That’s why I opt of the entire feelings thing. It’s not safe. Not for anyone.” *

Usually people who are pro-life here on this forum are secure in their law, their science, their philosophy and, yes, even their feelings. I get something different from you.

I just don’t have time to squander looking at it.

marietta
 
jmcrae says:

“This is propaganda; it never happened. More people have died of legal abortions than ever died of illegal ‘back alley’ abortions.”

Where are the numbers?

“Right, yeah. If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis, what would you say to her?”

How about, “Keep your pants on”?

marietta
 
marietta said:
Does this include the freedom to use artificial contraceptives?

marietta
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Yes.

In my study of history, I’ve generally come to the broad conclusion America was founded on three basic principles: protection of life, protection of liberty, and protection of property.

Whatever my view on contraceptives may be, it’s not illegal for someone to use them. It’s not illegal for someone to masturbate. It’s not illegal for people to do all sorts of sexually immoral things, because your using a condom isn’t hurting anyone’s life, liberty, or property.

Abortion, however, is a violation of life. That’s why it must be outlawed.

Peace 🙂
 
marietta said:
jmcrae says:

“This is propaganda; it never happened. More people have died of legal abortions than ever died of illegal ‘back alley’ abortions.”

Where are the numbers?

"
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Year
Deaths

1940 1,407
1945 744
1950 263
1955 224
1965 251
1965 201
1970 119
Source: “Induced termination of pregnancy before and after Roe v. Wade” JAMA, 12/9/92, vol. 208, no. 22, p. 3231-3239.

The CDC admits it is now underreproting deaths from induced abortions so it is impossible to tell what the curent number is BUT a look at the above shows that since the discovery of anti-biotics deaths from induced abortions have been very rare.
 
estesbob said:
Year
Deaths19401,407194574419502631955224196525119652011970119
Source: “Induced termination of pregnancy before and after Roe v. Wade” JAMA, 12/9/92, vol. 208, no. 22, p. 3231-3239.

The CDC admits it is now underreproting deaths from induced abortions so it is impossible to tell what the curent number is BUT a look at the above shows that since the discovery of anti-biotics deaths from induced abortions have been very rare.
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I find the number string difficult to interpret. Can you please add the labels in, and any spaces or other punctuation that might be missing?

thanks!! 🙂
 
jmcrae said:
I find the number string difficult to interpret. Can you please add the labels in, and any spaces or other punctuation that might be missing?

thanks!! 🙂
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Sorry !t it was a nice neat table when I posted it! I fixed it
 
If children are starving, it is due to societal injustice.

The progressive types who push contraception and abortion in these third world countries want to remove the only thing in the world these people have–their families.

“Here, you stupid, ignorant good-for-nothing baby machine. " If you want to eat tonight, take this here pill because God fobid you get pregnant and produce another mouth to feed. Oh, and be sure to give your son this condom so he can go sow his wild oats. Don’t teach him abstinence, though, because only the evil, rotten Holy Rollers beleive in self-control and self respect. You tell him to go have a ball, because if he or the girl get diseased or burdened with a baby, why, we’ll take care of that, too. Otherwise, you can starve to death because you are obviously too stupid to be allowed to go on.” (Just not in so many words, mind you).
 
adamsapple said:
Yes, there will be some women who will not have an abortion because it is illegal. But no one knows what that number would be - and it would be irrelevant anyway. Once again, this type of law is not enforceable, even with the best of intentions…
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The doctors would be prosecuted and lose the medical license. Anyone who preformed an abortion would be tried for murder and for practice of medicine without a license and assault on the mother.

We do have some idea of the women who would seek out illegal abortions - we can look at the statistics from BEFORE abortion was legal. It was not the stone age, we actually have the data.
adamsapple said:
Women already have assistance and support if they are questioning whether to have an abortion. Even Planned Parenthood offers assistance and referral services to women with unplanned pregnancies who don’t want to abort.

.
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Someone gave you a big dose of the kool-aid. PP does not refer or offer any non-abortive assistance. They are out to make money and push an agenda. They will lie to get that baby dead and keep a returning customer.
 
Marietta -

Feelings…nothing more than feelings…

Seriously, you’re not really armed for combat here, are you? You’re just a guilty person screeching about how sure you are that you’re right.

What so many people here don’t realize is that no amount of “support” is ever going to help in your case, because that’s just another initiative based on feelings.

You can cast about on the internet, looking for people who make you “feel” a certain way, and that’s just a retreat into what you already have in your own mind…these feelings that have no basis in reality.

That’s why I called you the enemy. the enemy of objective truth is subjective feelings. People who have let feelings run their life are the enemy of a society based upon truth. This is the war which is being fought in Western culture. I didn’t start it and neither did you, but you are firmly on the other side.

I implore my fellow Catholics not to get sucked into “supporting” people so much. “Supporting” is only a breath away from “condoning”, and these people are users. They will use you to convince themselves that you are just like they are, that your principles are just feelings and their position is just as viable as yours.

Don’t fall for it. Be truthful. Say “I’m very sorry that you killed someone, but you killed someone or were an accessory to it. I fear for your soul if you die without repenting of this.”

Yes, most of them will run screaming. Some of them will call you all sorts of names (sticks and stones), and eventually they’ll find some way to put you in jail for it. This is the way it goes. The alternative is to be a liar and a hypocrite.
 
Please, posters, listen up:

Compassion is a *bad thing. * Compassion puts you in a weak position, one in which you can be *talked into *anything at any time just to satisfy The Enemy.

Feelings are a really bad thing. Whatever the cost, *do not *allow yourself the luxury of feeling anything, good, bad or even indifferent. Once again, you *surrender your absolute being *when you experience even a fleeting feeling. **Beware! Check **your shoulder!!

***Love is the absolute worst thing of all. *** **Under no ****circumstances **should one allow oneself or one’s immediate family, friends, neighbors, community, strangers or anyone else to speak of love, experience love (which, after all, is nothing but a feeling), engage in loving behavior.

Please wait here while I make arrangements to remove these most vilified and despicable words and their meanings from hearts and minds across this forum. I would suggest that while you wait, you do the same.
**
It’s for your own good. **

marietta
 
Love is a choice, it may be based on feelings or bring about feelings, but it is NOT a feeling.
 
adamsapple said:
So what does that mean? That you endorse making contraception illegal and unavailable?

This is the problem with all these arguments - those of you who think that making something illegal solves the problem should examine your motives. In fact, what you’re doing is attempting to force your opinion on others via the law. I’m not sure that a lot of people who endorse making abortion and contraception illegal care anything whatsoever about the fetus or the mother. It’s more about control and getting your own way.
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Hey, you’re the one who promoted contraception as a means to stop or reduce abortion.

I just wondered aloud if you were aware studies have been done showing artificial contraception does not decrease abortion and in fact increases the spread of STDs.

It’s very interesting that instead of re-evaluating your problem solving in light of evidence, you want to start rambling on about making things illegal and valuing one human over another. That has nothing to do with the very clear point.

In fact, you start to look hypocritical. I mean, if you approach a problem and present an idea (contraception) to fix it, and someone else says “yo, did you know that’s been shown to be ineffective?” wouldn’t the more sensible and logical approach be to go back to the drawing board?

If artificial contraception wasn’t about control, you’d be having a constructive conversation with me about ways to reduce abortions.
 
kage_ar said:
Love is a choice, it may be based on feelings or bring about feelings, but it is NOT a feeling.
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And the sort of “love” that elevates a sinner (whoever he may be, whatever the relationship may be) to God who can do no wrong, and condones every manner of evil on the basis of “love” is no love at all; it is really a form of hate, since it doesn’t seek the highest good for that person.

Loving someone doesn’t mean that everything they do is okay, or that, if they have an abortion, that it must have been okay with God for them to do that. No - loving them means providing them with alternatives to abortion, such as a place to live and medical care, the opportunity to have their child adopted - but since these things have a tendency to take time and energy when we would much rather be watching TV, we decide instead to “support their choice” and condone the killing of a little child, just to avoid conflict and difficult work.
 
marietta said:
Please, posters, listen up:

Compassion is a *bad thing. * Compassion puts you in a weak position, one in which you can be *talked into *anything at any time just to satisfy The Enemy.

Feelings are a really bad thing. Whatever the cost, *do not *allow yourself the luxury of feeling anything, good, bad or even indifferent. Once again, you *surrender your absolute being *when you experience even a fleeting feeling. **Beware! Check **your shoulder!!

***Love is the absolute worst thing of all. *** **Under no ****circumstances **should one allow oneself or one’s immediate family, friends, neighbors, community, strangers or anyone else to speak of love, experience love (which, after all, is nothing but a feeling), engage in loving behavior.

Please wait here while I make arrangements to remove these most vilified and despicable words and their meanings from hearts and minds across this forum. I would suggest that while you wait, you do the same.
**
It’s for your own good. **

marietta
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I think you may be misinterpreting what he’s saying.

Nobody is saying that feelings are evil. In the words of my Gy Sgt, “there’s a time and a place.” Feelings are a reality of who we are, but when we’re making political decisions that boil down to life and death, they do not play a role in our rational consideration of the subject. Again, a time and a place.

And love is certainly far more than “just a feeling.” After all, God is Love.

Peace 🙂
 
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