Abortion has been made illegal! What happens now?

[feargalmac]

The more affluent a society becomes the birthrate falls. Why is this? Is it education or is it that we become more materialistic?

I come from a large family. Times were tough but we had all that money could not buy. We never went hungry and always had clean cloths. If you fall into the trap of pandering to your kids wants of course you won’t be able to afford a lot of kids.

Children are not a commodity, to talk of them in terms of affordability is demeaning and dehumanising.

 

[st_lucy]

I don’t endorse the abortion. But none of this is fun for the victims.
And people who choose to have very large families when they can’t afford them are irresponsible. This is the 21st century. God helps those who help themselves.

And as said before the child is also a victim. It is very judgmental to say it is irresponsible. God only gives one what he can handle. Have faith God will provide, so don’t go off killing your children.

 

[Corki]

I’ve never thought about it like this, but I have to say that you are right. Abortion is the easiest option for selfish people. Those who opt for abortion in favour of adoption probably do so because they don’t want to be linked with that child for the rest of their lives. By this, I mean that they don’t want the possibility of having to deal with the situation if the child ever tries to find them when it grows. Plus, they have to go through the ordeal of giving birth if they decide to put the baby up for adoption.

And there is the idea that a child is a possession of the parents and disposable at will.

When I was in college I dated a man who was completely against the idea of adoption. He said he couldn’t stand the idea of someone else raising HIS child. But he was ok with aborting the child. I never could follow that logic. And yes, I was stupid to date someone like that.

 

[Dempsey1919]

A rape victims baby is also a victim, an oh so innocent victim. Killing the baby won’t erase the rape. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

These are very wise words. Thank you for sharing them with us.

I have never thought of the baby as a victim of the rape. Now that you have introduced the idea to me, I can see that the baby is possibly the worst victim of the rape. Afterall, what would you feel like if you were the product of a rape? I have no doubt that this would cause the child great stress in later life. My heart truly goes out to the children who are conceived through rape.

 

[Dempsey1919]

As this is a Catholic, pro-life forum I would imagine there are many members who have debated with the pro-choice crowd. With this in mind, would you please share some of their arguments for allowing abortions? What do they predict would be the consequences of the criminalisation of abortion?

 

[estesbob]

I’ve seen these families first hand - 5,6, 7 kids - low income, a lot of hardship - no, you are clueless. A rape victim is a victim whether she has the baby or not.

Your idea of “fun” leaves a lot to be desired.

So which of her children do you think she should have killed to make her life easier?

And of course a rape victim is a rape victim whether she has the child or not. But if she aborts the child there are two victims… I believe if you read Scripture you will see that we have long since put aside the idea that children are to be punished for the sins of their father.

 

[adamsapple]

The more affluent a society becomes the birthrate falls. Why is this? Is it education or is it that we become more materialistic?

I come from a large family. Times were tough but we had all that money could not buy. We never went hungry and always had clean cloths. If you fall into the trap of pandering to your kids wants of course you won’t be able to afford a lot of kids.

Children are not a commodity, to talk of them in terms of affordability is demeaning and dehumanising.

Six kids, six parochial school tuitions. You figure it out -----

 

[st_lucy]

Six kids, six parochial school tuitions. You figure it out -----

Now does one have to sent their child to private school? I am pretty sure that is not a necessity right. Our culture is raising a generation of take what you want. Most traditional Catholics/ Christians who tend to have large families know that this is not a good way to raise a child and so large families know that they shouldn’t/can’t get everything they want.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Sarah thought the ban was great; that is, until she was raped and realised that she was pregnant. She didn’t want the baby because she knew the child would be a constant reminder of what happened. Sarah is also worried that the child would resemble it’s father and didn’t want to have to see him on a daily basis. What should she do?

Not kill the child, and put him up for adoption.

(That was easy!)

Jane has six children already and finds out that she is pregnant. She has recently been made redundant and can hardly support the children she already has. She knows that she would be unable to care for the new baby, and that the baby would suffer as a result. What should she do?

Not kill the child, and put him up for adoption.

Mary is the proud mother of a two year old girl. She decided to try for another baby and was extremely happy when she discovered that she was pregnant! However, after the first trimester her doctor told her that the baby only had a ten percent chance of survival. He also told her that there was a strong possibility that she could die during labour. The doctor would prefer to abort the baby but he no longer has the option. What should happen now?

She should be monitored closely, and if she gets “too close to death” the appropriate procedures should be done to try to save both the mother and child.

We all know the evils of abortion, but the issue is not as black and white as we would like it to be.

It certainly IS perfectly black and white.

That some of the consequences are “difficult” is the way life works, dear heart.

 

[BlestOne]

Adamsapple… Financial ruin can happen at any time in our lives… what about the affluent family with a dozen kids that suddenly loses the breadwinner to death? Or, what about the mom of 4 that suddenly finds herself divorced and the man isn’t paying child support? These things happen… according to your model, it should be legal to kill the children.

Actually this did happen to me… My ex up and left, took our entire savings, and refused to pay child support. You know what happens? I do! My parish bought me groceries a time or two, at Easter a card showed up on my door with $200 in in from an anonymous donor, friends hired me to do work on their homes and paid me with meals. My college (did I mention I was laid off my job and went back to school?) gave me a scholarship because I had financial need. But the best part of all of it was how close my children and I became not just to each other, but to our faith. It was the BEST experience of my life… literally I had nothing except my kids and yet we had everything. My kids used to joke about how trusting God was amazing… car insurance bill would come in and I would worry about where the money was going to come from, turn it over to God in prayer and the next day a check would show up in the mail from the phone company… or walking into Walmart with either enough money to get my son’s prescription or eat… I left there after getting the meds and eating with more money in my pocket than I went in with!!! God does provide and kids learn valuable lessons from seeing a parent that trusts in God to provide.

Edit… forgot to mention… all my kids went to parochial school through all this too…

 

[st_lucy]

Adamsapple… Financial ruin can happen at any time in our lives… what about the affluent family with a dozen kids that suddenly loses the breadwinner to death? Or, what about the mom of 4 that suddenly finds herself divorced and the man isn’t paying child support? These things happen… according to your model, it should be legal to kill the children.

Actually this did happen to me… My ex up and left, took our entire savings, and refused to pay child support. You know what happens? I do! My parish bought me groceries a time or two, at Easter a card showed up on my door with $200 in in from an anonymous donor, friends hired me to do work on their homes and paid me with meals. My college (did I mention I was laid off my job and went back to school?) gave me a scholarship because I had financial need. But the best part of all of it was how close my children and I became not just to each other, but to our faith. It was the BEST experience of my life… literally I had nothing except my kids and yet we had everything. My kids used to joke about how trusting God was amazing… car insurance bill would come in and I would worry about where the money was going to come from, turn it over to God in prayer and the next day a check would show up in the mail from the phone company… or walking into Walmart with either enough money to get my son’s prescription or eat… I left there after getting the meds and eating with more money in my pocket than I went in with!!! God does provide and kids learn valuable lessons from seeing a parent that trusts in God to provide.

Edit… forgot to mention… all my kids went to parochial school through all this too…

I love hearing stories like this. Isn’t it wonderful how great God takes care of His children, if only we all could trust in Him.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[RobbyS]

I don’t endorse the abortion. But none of this is fun for the victims.
And people who choose to have very large families when they can’t afford them are irresponsible. This is the 21st century. God helps those who help themselves.

What’s all this 21st Century stuff? If abortion was wrong in the First Century, it is wrong now. As to irresponsibilty, what about well-to do wealthy families who have one or two children when they could easily afford more? A birth dearth in Europe has caused a rapid increase in the number of aged and unproductive persons.
What kind of society will Germany, for istance, have when a large minority of the population is over seventy? How much energy and creativity can we expect from such a nation?

 

[BlestOne]

I love hearing stories like this. Isn’t it wonderful how great God takes care of His children, if only we all could trust in Him.

Thank you for sharing.

My experience is that it is ALL about trust. Even years later, my kids tell me that they feel sorry for their best friend because they were given everything and they don’t appreciate anything.

 

[adamsapple]

Now does one have to sent their child to private school? I am pretty sure that is not a necessity right. Our culture is raising a generation of take what you want. Most traditional Catholics/ Christians who tend to have large families know that this is not a good way to raise a child and so large families know that they shouldn’t/can’t get everything they want.

Sorry, but I wouldn’t throw my kids to the dogs in a public school. It’s selfish on the part of the parents not to limit the size of their family such that they can give their children a proper education. Catholic school should be on the top of any parent’s list. This has nothing to do with materialism. It has to do with bringing up children who are well formed morally and psychologically.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

God helps those who help themselves

.

You do realize this statement comes from Aesop’s fables, right? Not from the Bible.

Actually God is all about helping those who help themselves. . .**and **who help others. . .**and **who have no one to help them. . .in fact, God is about helping all who call upon His name, and even to helping us ‘before we call’.

Let’s try not to limit God to the 21st century.

 

[st_lucy]

Sorry, but I wouldn’t throw my kids to the dogs in a public school. It’s selfish on the part of the parents not to limit the size of their family such that they can give their children a proper education. Catholic school should be on the top of any parent’s list. This has nothing to do with materialism. It has to do with bringing up children who are well formed morally and psychologically.

I am sorry that you think sending your kids to public school is throwing your kids to the dogs. Education comes FIRST from the home. If you give your child a good start at home than you can be sure they will follow by good example. As stated before Catholic schools do give discounts to those in need, and rarely if ever turn someone down for not being able to pay tuition. You speak of giving a good Catholic education as being on the top of a parents list, so how does going against the Churches teaching follow suit with this idea?

Try trusting in God and not man.

 

[feargalmac]

As this is a Catholic, pro-life forum I would imagine there are many members who have debated with the pro-choice crowd. With this in mind, would you please share some of their arguments for allowing abortions? What do they predict would be the consequences of the criminalisation of abortion?

Debate is the wrong word. When I mention I’m Pro Life I get lectured.

As for predicting the consequences, I don’t know. Thank God abortion is still illegal here.

 

[demol]

Sorry, but I wouldn’t throw my kids to the dogs in a public school.
Quite a statement. Being a graduate of a public school I find that offensive.

It’s selfish on the part of the parents not to limit the size of their family such that they can give their children a proper education.
So the number of children parents have should be dictated by the number of children they can afford to send to Catholic school?

Catholic school should be on the top of any parent’s list.
Not on the top of mine.

This has nothing to do with materialism. It has to do with bringing up children who are well formed morally and psychologically.
Shouldn’t that start at home?

 

[adamsapple]

I am sorry that you think sending your kids to public school is throwing your kids to the dogs. Education comes FIRST from the home. If you give your child a good start at home than you can be sure they will follow by good example. As stated before Catholic schools do give discounts to those in need, and rarely if ever turn someone down for not being able to pay tuition. You speak of giving a good Catholic education as being on the top of a parents list, so how does going against the Churches teaching follow suit with this idea?

Try trusting in God and not man.

Not sure how my opinion goes against the Church’s teaching. Can you please point that out?

It’s a free country, you can do what you want with your kids. I went to Catholic school right through grad school. I intend to make that available to my three children. If I had 6 or 9 children it wouldn’t be possible. What don’t you see about parental responsibility??

 

[AHapka]

And people who choose to have very large families when they can’t afford them are irresponsible. This is the 21st century. God helps those who help themselves.

I don’t see what you are alluding to when you say “This is the 21st century.”?

Are you saying that it’s irresponsible to bring children into a world that now has:

flush toilets,
running hot and cold water,
refrigeration,
insulated housing,
a distribution system to distribute food all over the country,
advanced farming and irrigation techniques?

Why is this bad? When you consider what most of us have, there are very few truly poor people (especially in western countries).

Let’s not forget that most of us live better then some kings did.

Also, God chooses how many children we have. Scripture tells us that children are the supreme gift of marriage. Considering how happy I was to get a lump of cash for a wedding gift, should I not be even more happy with the gifts God give me?