Abortion, Holocaust and Genocide

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HopingforGodtohelp

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In modern society, people get aggressively angry at you if you compare anything to the Holocaust, especially the progressive religion’s “sacred” right of abortion.

But as Catholics, we are taught that the unborn are just as human as the rest of us. Aborting an unborn child is murder according to our faith.

So if you truly believe that killing an unborn child is murder, as we are taught to, how is the 50 years of legalized abortion any less bad than the holocaust was? 62 million murders of unborn babies. Made even worse by the fact that none of them baptized.

Like, how is this not the worst thing any society has ever done, ever? I find this so absolutely gruesome. And it’s all for convenience and worldliness. The rape and incest cases don’t justify killing a baby, but not even considering that, the vast majority are just because killing is convenient. This is so gruesome.

I don’t want to turn this into another voting thread, but this is why I find it hard to quabble over issues such as taxes or whatever the hot issue of the day is. Like, I can’t ignore the fact that our society has so much blood on our hands. It just horrifies me.
 
HopingforGodtohelp said:
So if you truly believe that killing an unborn child is murder, as we are taught to, how is the 50 years of legalized abortion any less bad than the holocaust was?
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Your answer is implied within the question. I would say that the majority of people do not consider it to be murder. I think you’d have known that anyway. And I’m pretty certain that you’d know why they don’t consider it such. Not because they don’t consider it human (the egg and the sperm are human even before they join), but because a lot of people don’t consider (for example) the few cells a woman is carrying just after conception to be a person.

And despite there being no bright line when it does, there is obviously a difference in how people perceive that which a woman is carrying a few days after conception to what she is carrying a few days before birth.

I don’t think that this is an aspect of abortion that has a solution. So trying to reduce abortions by concentrating on this aspect of the problem will not succeed. You’re going to need to work on how to prevent women who don’t want a child getting pregnant in the first place (and accepting that most of them will not simply stop having sex) or providing a system whereby the reasons she didn’t want one (which are many and varied) can be addressed.
 
This is the worst thing society has ever done. You are completely correct in your post. It needs to be outlawed and we need a unified vote to do it. Unfortunately there are many Catholics . . . . who simply to do not care for the lives of the unborn.
 
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Have you forgotten President Trump’s ICE troopers detention doctors doing required forced non-consentual hysterectomies on detainees - no abortions ever needed to disturb Catholics.
 
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For one that hasn’t been proven and secondly there isn’t a Catholic on this sub that would think that is okay. What is even your point?
 
HopingforGodtohelp said:
Made even worse by the fact that none of them baptized.
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Can you explain this please? Surely Church teaching holds that none of the 62 million will go to hell, even if the hope the Church has for them that they go to heaven is unfounded? And doesn’t baptism of desire work for unborn children?
 
This is an argument based on possible consequences of an action. Surely it is no more valid than arguing that every woman should seek to become pregnant at every possible opportunity, or even that this be required, in order the future children thus generated can grow up and solve problems?
 
I mostly don’t think about the “pro-life” issue much because it is traumatic to do so. All those dead people! All the unwanted people. So I understand somewhat, but I stay away from thinking about it.

Perhaps consider that with time, abortion will substantially diminish on its own. Eventually it will be the Brave New World.
 
Riman643 said:
Unfortunately there are many Catholics (some of who are even on this forum) who simply to do not care for the lives of the unborn.
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I think many of us DO care for the unborn, but realise, as @Freddy said
Freddy said:
trying to reduce abortions by concentrating on this aspect of the problem will not succeed. You’re going to need to work on how to prevent women who don’t want a child getting pregnant in the first place (and accepting that most of them will not simply stop having sex) or providing a system whereby the reasons she didn’t want one (which are many and varied) can be addressed.
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Legislation hasn’t and won’t work.
 
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This is a lie. Abortions skyrocketed since legalizing. We need this terrible cancerous act of society outlawed, more evangelization, and a cultural change. Politics is always downstream from culture.
 
It’s not a lie; pro tip: don’t accuse someone with an opinion that differs from yours of telling a lie. It’s immature, at best, and insulting.

The fact is that decades have passed and abortions are still legal.

Regardless of legality, abortions have always been a part of humanity in all cultures and times. Making them illegal won’t change that and will only serve to push abortions underground where women will suffer further.

Change hearts, not laws. It’s the only way.
 
It is a lie. Abortions skyrocketed once it became legal. Newsflash, making it illegal will make abortions go down. Also read where I said we need to evangelize and change the culture. Should we have fought WWII or should we have tried to change the minds of the Nazis?
 
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You’re a 24yo male, correct? It’s great you have enthusiasm for the unborn, truly. But until you’ve been (or closely work with) a young pregnant girl you have no idea why she might feel there is no other option. People on CA often don’t understand how vulnerable it feels to be pregnant and the fears that can be involved.
 
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25 and so what? Yes I am sure it is terrifying to be pregnant. Does not change the fact that they are murdering a child. I know for myself I donate money to our local Catholic women’s shelter specifically because of issues like these along with homelessness and domestic abuse. What is wrong is wrong and no moral society can allow it.
 
Maximian said:
Irrelevant. Abortion is wrong however terrified a woman is.
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And this is why you’re losing the battle. When discussion is hindered by rigidity instead of trying to understand the other side (even if you don’t agree with it–understanding helps you tackle the issues impeding your progress) then I have no desire to engage. I’m out of this thread.
 
Many similarities. Unjust state of poverty used as a foundation, a population gradually desensitized to the dignity of the victims, not to mention eugenics as the covert operative concept.

The difference is the Holocaust required people more consciously murderous to be carried out.

Most mother’s that abort their child don’t think of it as killing at all. Its a ‘procedure’.

The Holocaust was more visible. Vacant neiborhoods absent neighbors and businesses.

The unborn child is out of sight so out of mind.
 
NevermoreLenore said:
rigidity instead of trying to understand the other side (
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I understand perfectly the other side. I also understand why battered housewives are driven to murder and poor people to steal. But it’s still wrong to murder and steal.
 
Freddy said:
Your answer is implied within the question. I would say that the majority of people do not consider it to be murder. I think you’d have known that anyway. And I’m pretty certain that you’d know why they don’t consider it such. Not because they don’t consider it human (the egg and the sperm are human even before they join), but because a lot of people don’t consider (for example) the few cells a woman is carrying just after conception to be a person.

And despite there being no bright line when it does, there is obviously a difference in how people perceive that which a woman is carrying a few days after conception to what she is carrying a few days before birth.

I don’t think that this is an aspect of abortion that has a solution. So trying to reduce abortions by concentrating on this aspect of the problem will not succeed. You’re going to need to work on how to prevent women who don’t want a child getting pregnant in the first place (and accepting that most of them will not simply stop having sex) or providing a system whereby the reasons she didn’t want one (which are many and varied) can be addressed.
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So what if the majority judge that an unborn child is not worthy of life? As catholics we believe otherwise. The content of our faith does not bow to majorities.

And of course there should be alternatives to abortion, and the Catholic church is very much at the forefront of creating alternatives and offering help to women in need.

But even if they didn’t, killing would still be wrong. Trying to see it the other way round is confusing the fact with the consequence.
 
I should admit, that exacerbation of abortion and the divisiveness and rigidity that goes with it, certainly helps some certain political interests and certain business that are represented by those politicians. Such exacerbation helps to divert attention from other policy questions and makes the management of the voter preferences much simpler. Just observation. This not not moral judgment or discernment, just observation. Each own conscience determines whether this is or is not an argument.
 
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