Abortion, Holocaust and Genocide

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I.e. one should be able to determine situations in which the abortion is real issue and when the abortion is just used for vote grabbing or grabbing the financial power.
 
HopingforGodtohelp said:
In modern society, people get aggressively angry at you if you compare anything to the Holocaust, especially the progressive religion’s “sacred” right of abortion.

But as Catholics, we are taught that the unborn are just as human as the rest of us. Aborting an unborn child is murder according to our faith.

So if you truly believe that killing an unborn child is murder, as we are taught to, how is the 50 years of legalized abortion any less bad than the holocaust was? 62 million murders of unborn babies. Made even worse by the fact that none of them baptized.

Like, how is this not the worst thing any society has ever done, ever? I find this so absolutely gruesome. And it’s all for convenience and worldliness. The rape and incest cases don’t justify killing a baby, but not even considering that, the vast majority are just because killing is convenient. This is so gruesome.

I don’t want to turn this into another voting thread, but this is why I find it hard to quabble over issues such as taxes or whatever the hot issue of the day is. Like, I can’t ignore the fact that our society has so much blood on our hands. It just horrifies me.
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Objectively, taking a human life for the sake of personal convenience is a grave evil in all circumstances.

It’s not the same thing as a genocide because genocide is the systemic extermination of an unwanted group of people (i.e. Rwanda or Armenia or Nazi Germany). That doesn’t make it less evil, but abortion is more about personal convenience and human selfishness than it is about serving a political goal by a state. In the case of an abortion, a baby is an accessory item and if the person doesn’t want it for a particular reason it is discarded, but if the person does want it than it is not. There’s no such thing as wanted or unwanted in a genocide; in a genocide, existing is a crime and the penalty is death.

Aborting a child is a subtler, more discrete form of murder, which is why it is to some extent socially acceptable and genocide is not. Anyway, I’m not on board with saying abortion and genocide are the same because they serve different purposes and have different motivations.
 
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NevermoreLenore said:
Legislation hasn’t and won’t work.
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Legislation is the only way to end it. Legislation, is what allowed blacks and women’s rights to be recognized by the Constitution. Prior to the Constitution being amended the rights didn’t exist.

The same holds true for the unborn. As much as people would like to say that the unborn are protected by the Constitution, it just isn’t so. An amendment is the only way to settle this and have rights given to the unborn codified in law and undeniable under the law. We are a country that is ruled by law, not faith.
 
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I agree with this. Just passing a law for its own sake is an unwinnable battle (IMO). Education and compassion will be key to stopping abortion. When my husband and I heard the shwoosh shwoosh of our daughter’s heartbeat at eight weeks it was an incredibly profound and life changing moment. Because our society is so pro abortion, most women who have never been pregnant are not exposed to the joys and realities of what goes on in the womb. They honestly think it’s just a lump of cells because that’s what they’ve always been told.
 
I agree with you. We need a great cultural change of mind. I am not sure it can be legally forced especially since Roe v Wade is established law for all these decades across each party in power.
 
There was no great cultural change of mind that abortion should be legal when it was made legal.

It was unilaterally instituted by 7 lawyers AGAINST the will of the people.

If it can be done in order to institute a grave, intrinsic evil, why can’t we do that to STOP a grave, intrinsic evil?

There is no cultural change required. Simply some courage required from voters, politicians, and judges.
 
HopingforGodtohelp said:
There was no great cultural change of mind that abortion should be legal when it was made legal.

It was unilaterally instituted by 7 lawyers AGAINST the will of the people.

If it can be done in order to institute a grave, intrinsic evil, why can’t we do that to STOP a grave, intrinsic evil?

There is no cultural change required. Simply some courage required from voters, politicians, and judges.
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Let’s say abortion is made illegal. Then what? Do you really think that will stop abortions?
Will there be a punishment for the women having an abortion and those who help in procuring an abortion? What would such a punishment be?
 
All 7 of those lawyers are dead, and all it takes is 5 unelected lawyers to revoke it.

I might add, the ideal would be for 5 lawyers to simply outlaw abortion, and declare that the unborn are equally protected under the 14th amendment. But simply revoking this horrible decision would be a massive step forward.
 
. . . ,

If abortion is made illegal, will there be zero abortions? No. There won’t. There aren’t zero murders today. There aren’t zero abused children. There aren’t zero human traffickers. And yet, somehow, society still seems to make murders (except abortions), abusing children, and human trafficking illegal. You really think that we do this for no reason at all? This is pure sophistry. Making murdering jews illegal doesn’t stop a criminal from shooting them in the streets occasionally (this still happens all the time.), but it does stop massive legal nazi death camps lik Auschwitz. Banning abortion wouldn’t completely eliminate the horrible crime of abortion, but it would make it illegal to have an open death camp in public like Planned Parenthood.

What should the punishment be? I’m not a lawyer, I’m not an expert on criminal justice. I don’t know the correct punishment. But I do think it should be strong and severe, as abortion is a murder, one of the worst crimes anyone could commit.

Here’s what we should do. We should treat abortion like murder. Like murder in every way possible. Because abortion is murder. And not believing that is going against the teachings of the church and the natural law.
 
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He did answer your question. . . .

. . . . The fact that making something illegal would not stop all instances of it happening ever is not a reason to not make it illegal. . . .
 
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So you are going to potentially jail millions of additional people yearly??? There are around 16,000 murders yearly. Don’t know how many are solved and people jailed but it’s nothing compared to abortions.
While I find abortion a despicable act people also have to come up with a practical solution and jailing millions of people will not work.
 
People going to jail for murder, the horror

Ever thought of the fact that if people would go to jail for murder, then maybe fewer of them would murder?
 
HopingforGodtohelp said:
He did answer your question, you’re just being willfully ignorant of the obvious answer.

You are playing rhetorical games. It’s frequent with the pro-abort side and their apologists because they have no actual morals on their side. The fact that making something illegal would not stop all instances of it happening ever is not a reason to not make it illegal. If you aren’t being intentionally dishonest, you can see that.
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How dare you say I am pro-abortion. I hate abortion. I was simply asking for a practical solution to the problem. Its easy to say make it illegal but that just won’t work in practice.
Please apologise for your personal slur on me by saying/implying I am pro-abortion or I will flag your post.
 
With justice Ginsburg out we may have opportunity to test your hypothesis.
 
. . . .

You’re justifying legal abortion by saying it would be too hard to make it illegal. Which is nonsense and against God’s law. That doesn’t make you pro-abortion. It makes you an apologist for the people who are pro-abortion and their crusade for legal abortion though.
 
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This is absurd. And if it were the case, why is murder illegal then?
 
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