Abortion lowers crime rate?

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At one time, I was in favor of abortion as a means to protect children from abuse if they were aborted prior to their birth. Then, the next step in the logic is that someone who would abuse a child probably wouldn’t have the sense to have aborted it. That’s when I was young and dumb.

There are more than enough couples wanting children to take the aborted babies and save them from poverty, abuse and becoming criminals.
I totally agree. No one should have an abortion. But you also have to remember that the people who do have abortions probably are in high risk factors to crime. The irony is that most people who DO have abortions end up pregnant again within a year or two.

I just want to clarify, the man who wrote freakonomics is not advocating abortion, he is merely an economist. He also states that the amount of crime that has disipated is no where close to the atrocities of killing babies!
 
Actually, since Roe vs. Wade the murder rate has increased by 40,000,000 counts and 4,000 more crimes are committed in abortion clinics every day.

Could it really be considered a reduction in the crime rate if we just no longer considered armed robbery to be illegal?
 
Lots of things lower crime rates. The surest way to lower the crime rate is to execute every first-time criminal. Zero repeat offenses.
Exactly, Genocide lowers the crime rate as well.

The logic behind this argument is that the abortion rate is higher among poor inner city women than it is among other population segments.

And since criminals come from these backgrounds at higher rates, the premise is that an inner city poor woman who has an abortion has a significant chance to be killing a potential criminal.

Which is really degrogatory at it core :mad:
 
With this thinking process you could eliminate the crime rate, all of it, all classes of crime, by killing absolutely everyone!
 
It eliminates the people who are in high risk situations to become criminals eg, poverty, abuse, neglectful parents. That is how.

Read “Freakonmics” it is true, this doesn’t mean abortion is good, there are plenty of other ill effects it has. Anyway, he speaks of petty crime not serious murderers like Ted bundy!
That is a downright lie. Reminiscent of when protestants and anti-catholic secularists go: “oh that Pope Pious the 12th, he didn’t do anything to save the Jews…” but then they dig a little past what they’ve been taught by Secular Society and discover he cold hard facts behind it.

How can you believe such a thing about abortion?

isteve.com/abortion.htm

The only thing which has the very real power to decrease crime, is either getting rid of laws(as has been mentioned, this is the stupid way of doing it) OR cutting their chains and pumping large amounts of funds and human resources into the Police force(The best way of doing it).
 
That is a downright lie. Reminiscent of when protestants and anti-catholic secularists go: “oh that Pope Pious the 12th, he didn’t do anything to save the Jews…” but then they dig a little past what they’ve been taught by Secular Society and discover he cold hard facts behind it.

How can you believe such a thing about abortion?

isteve.com/abortion.htm

The only thing which has the very real power to decrease crime, is either getting rid of laws(as has been mentioned, this is the stupid way of doing it) OR cutting their chains and pumping large amounts of funds and human resources into the Police force(The best way of doing it).
I was simply stating that an economist in the book freakonomics found a decline that is parallel with abortion. We can’t say one caused the other, only that there is some relationship. This man studied the years that abortion became legal, and then found that the next generation (aborted generation) had lowered crime rates. To show this is due to abortion you look at states like Hawaii that had legal abortions for x years sooner than the others. X years later the crime rates went down.

This does not mean that if you believe it you are not prolife. The economist also states that for every ten thousand deaths via abortion (im not exactly sure of the number) there was one life spared by the prevention of crime.

This is just a figure, the numbers are not calculated by morality. Numbers don’t have a mind to say that abortion is evil.

Go read the book you will see what I am saying!

Do you know any economist that has proved this was a lie? That is simply your opinion. Mine is based on statistics, your opinion is based on ideology.
 
That is a downright lie. Reminiscent of when protestants and anti-catholic secularists go: “oh that Pope Pious the 12th, he didn’t do anything to save the Jews…” but then they dig a little past what they’ve been taught by Secular Society and discover he cold hard facts behind it.

How can you believe such a thing about abortion?

isteve.com/abortion.htm

The only thing which has the very real power to decrease crime, is either getting rid of laws(as has been mentioned, this is the stupid way of doing it) OR cutting their chains and pumping large amounts of funds and human resources into the Police force(The best way of doing it).
Please don’t remind me of Steve Sailer. IQ and race do not mix well. 😦
 
We must also remember that Hitler cleaned up the streets, he lowered the crime rate. This does not mean that he was good, or was just in doing what he did.

We can ackowledge something without agreeing with evil.
 
I would also ask that person why they’re racist or why they’re adding fuel to racial stereotypes?

I know that’s a BOLD question that presumes alot. But I listen to some conservative radio from the Detroit area and some African American conservatives have some VERY interesting perspectives about Planned Parenthood.

Check out this distubing web site:

klannedparenthood.com/History_of_Abortion_Statistics/

I don’t know how accurate it is, but assuming these stereotypical misconceptions:

African Americans cause crime.
Abortions lower crime.

And compare that with what this website claims:
A black baby is three times more likely to be murdered in the womb than a white baby.
You get a chilling feeling of how morally bankrupt planned parenthood and some politicians are.
 
I don’t know about the crime rate, but back in 1967, Gov. Ronald Reagan of California signed the first law legalizing abortion in an attempt to get the welfare rolls down.

I remember because I lived in California at the time, and I also remember the big commotion it caused.
 
I was simply stating that an economist in the book freakonomics found a decline that is parallel with abortion. We can’t say one caused the other, only that there is some relationship. This man studied the years that abortion became legal, and then found that the next generation (aborted generation) had lowered crime rates. To show this is due to abortion you look at states like Hawaii that had legal abortions for x years sooner than the others. X years later the crime rates went down.

This does not mean that if you believe it you are not prolife. The economist also states that for every ten thousand deaths via abortion (im not exactly sure of the number) there was one life spared by the prevention of crime.

This is just a figure, the numbers are not calculated by morality. Numbers don’t have a mind to say that abortion is evil.

Go read the book you will see what I am saying!

Do you know any economist that has proved this was a lie? That is simply your opinion. Mine is based on statistics, your opinion is based on ideology.
There is no relationship between Abortion and crime rates.

The federal figures actually WENT UP since Row VS Wade! there is nothing to suggest abortion lowers crime rate.

That is a myth that the Pro-Choice movement has used to justify abortion, and that the pro-life movement has refused to villify or use apologetics against, simply because they don’t know the fact of the situation. There is no relationship. The so called “good aspect of Abortion” is nothing but a dangerous myth used to justify one of the worst acts of rebellion against God that once can commit.
 
Unfortunately Levitt and Dubner did not see that they SHOWED the correlation graphs and regression analysis in the said book. As economists, we use regression analysis to determine the causality of all KNOWN factors into the equation and determine the correlation values of each factors. (that’s Econometrics 101)

The authors of Freakonomics seemd to bank on the premise that their readers will not care to look at the regression analysis (if ever they really did it) but will just take their words for it.

But enough with that.

What the authors actually based their theory on was the relationship between being “unwanted” and “becoming a criminal” later on.
They theorized that mothers who wanted abortion were actually begetting future criminals because they did not want their babies to be born.
This seems to be a plausible theory at first glance but if you consider the following, it becomes less convincing:
  1. Do all unwanted babies grow up to become criminals?
    or the reverse the question:
  2. Do all criminals come from unwanted pregnancies?
Since the authors did not show the above factors in their regression equations, the theory hangs in the air like a bad dream and has created speculations beyond the economics study.
 
It eliminates the people who are in high risk situations to become criminals eg, poverty, abuse, neglectful parents. That is how.

Read “Freakonmics” it is true, this doesn’t mean abortion is good, there are plenty of other ill effects it has. Anyway, he speaks of petty crime not serious murderers like Ted bundy!
So it is basically a speculation. A theory. There are too many variables to really know this with any certainty.

And it doesn’t matter even if it was true because as has been already pointed out we could do all kinds of evil things to bring the crime rate down, like just kill every first-time criminal. …

I heard it a while back. It’s a crazy and stupid and ultimately pointless argument. … Unless the point is to subtly suggest that abortion has a silver lining.
 
I don’t know about the crime rate, but back in 1967, Gov. Ronald Reagan of California signed the first law legalizing abortion in an attempt to get the welfare rolls down.

I remember because I lived in California at the time, and I also remember the big commotion it caused.
Was that when he was still a Democrat?
 
  1. Do all unwanted babies grow up to become criminals?
    or the reverse the question:
  2. Do all criminals come from unwanted pregnancies?
These would be the right questions to ask. And another question is how do you define an unwanted baby? Maybe a couple is using NFP or ABC and they get a “surprise”. At that point in time, the baby is unwanted. But, they struggle through and by the time the baby is born they’re reconciled to it and even a little joyful, even though it will mean sacrifice for the family. Is this baby unwanted? I would argue that babies whose mother actually aborts them are much more unwanted.

Now as for criminals. No, all criminals don’t come from unwanted pregnancies (because of the way you phrased the question, one counter-example will do). But the majority of non-serial killer criminals come from truly awful homes. Obviously your average 16 year old gang member who already has a rap sheet does not have even minimal parental involvement or supervision.

And I think it was these people, the members of youth crime, that the research was trying to track. Young men perpetrate an awful lot of the crime in the urban landscape. And especially young men growing up without two parents, so the idea is that if you reduce the numbers of these people, young people growing up without two parents, you would reduce the crime rate. Well, among the women getting abortions, there are quite a few whose partners would not stay to rear the child. This is where the disproportionate numbers of African-Americans comes in. African-American children are more likely to be reared by a single parent then they are to be reared by two parents. Which would likely be why abortion is more sought out by African-American women, because they know they would be rearing the child alone.

Not that I’m making a moral argument here, I’m only trying to understand the research.
 
These would be the right questions to ask. And another question is how do you define an unwanted baby? Maybe a couple is using NFP or ABC and they get a “surprise”. At that point in time, the baby is unwanted. But, they struggle through and by the time the baby is born they’re reconciled to it and even a little joyful, even though it will mean sacrifice for the family. Is this baby unwanted? I would argue that babies whose mother actually aborts them are much more unwanted.

Now as for criminals. No, all criminals don’t come from unwanted pregnancies (because of the way you phrased the question, one counter-example will do). But the majority of non-serial killer criminals come from truly awful homes. Obviously your average 16 year old gang member who already has a rap sheet does not have even minimal parental involvement or supervision.

And I think it was these people, the members of youth crime, that the research was trying to track. Young men perpetrate an awful lot of the crime in the urban landscape. And especially young men growing up without two parents, so the idea is that if you reduce the numbers of these people, young people growing up without two parents, you would reduce the crime rate. Well, among the women getting abortions, there are quite a few whose partners would not stay to rear the child. This is where the disproportionate numbers of African-Americans comes in. African-American children are more likely to be reared by a single parent then they are to be reared by two parents. Which would likely be why abortion is more sought out by African-American women, because they know they would be rearing the child alone.

Not that I’m making a moral argument here, I’m only trying to understand the research.
The sad part is, we have no way of arriving at an educated evaluation of the theory without looking into the demographics and the statistical distributions of the causes of criminality. All we have are assumptions, and so do they.

And to think that we Catholics are being accused of being blind CCC moralists by those who think they have the scientific and mathematical firepower.
 
*Though birth rates vary widely between countries, the world’s total fertility rate (the number of children per mother) has dropped from five in 1950 to 2.7 today. *-[actually current rates are below 2.7 in higher educated populations] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3072271

Another way to look at this is was 5 children per mother to much the handle? Or said better is it more difficult to raise 5 than 2? Today the number 2 is more than average. So is abortion the difference? NO, Contraception, living single, better education, etc, are all factors. It is important to realize these causes affect the rate of birth, not crime. Crime is being affected by the reduced strain on parents, schools, police by the reduced work load and expenses.
 
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