Abortion Total in United States Since Roe v. Wade Now Over 47 Million

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BioCatholic:
God seems to be doing a pretty bad job at “taking care” of the starving children in Africa then. I’ll assume that children are a blessing anywhere, and not just in the US. explain to me how God provided for an African mother who chose to keep her children, but they starved to death? i cant reconcile how to the church teaches God sends children as blessings and will provide for them, but from day one those children begin a short life full of malnourishment and starvation to death.
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We can’t blame God for the actions of man. He did give us free will to reject His teachings. Suffering is ultimately a mystery, but He never said living in this world would be easy. He also said the good and evil would suffer alike. I can’t tell you why children, either through abuse, starvation, or abortion, have to suffer, but sadly they do.

We have to remember that in many places of the world, people are subject to totalitarian regimes and civil wars. In Africa and all around the world, many of these people’s government officials live in luxury while the population starves. That just isn’t God’s fault.

While we do what we can to help with donations and such, the ultimate solution is to preach the Gospel so that all can see the saving power of Christ, even in suffering. We can’t allow babies to be ripped apart in the womb just because babies starve in Africa. 😦
 
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BioCatholic:
God seems to be doing a pretty bad job at “taking care” of the starving children in Africa then. I’ll assume that children are a blessing anywhere, and not just in the US. explain to me how God provided for an African mother who chose to keep her children, but they starved to death? i cant reconcile how to the church teaches God sends children as blessings and will provide for them, but from day one those children begin a short life full of malnourishment and starvation to death.
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No one said that life would be easy or fair. if there are starving people in Africa, then how should we as people respond. is God calling us as a Church, faith community, or individual to step up to the plate and provide what we can?

Is it the child’s fault. NEVER.
 
Good discussion. Just a general reminder:

The charity level of this discussion appears to be in flux. Please self-edit for tone and content before clicking the “Submit” button. If the charity level does not improve, this thread will have to be locked. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
 
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soulspeak23:
That makes us practical. Imagine the US with 47 million more people in it. Where is the money to care for them to come from? Where is the food to feed them to come from? We have a large enough problem as it is in this country keeping children fed and warm. Why would we want to add 47 million more mouths to feed?
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fortunately with your orientation… you won’t have extra mouths to feed.
 
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MrS:
fortunately with your orientation… you won’t have extra mouths to feed.
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What does “orientation” have to do anything? Pls address yrself to the discussion. You know, charity.
 
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MikeinSD:
What does “orientation” have to do anything? Pls address yrself to the discussion. You know, charity.
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She has proclaimed herself as a lesbian Catholic on her profile. And it is certainly obvious herposition is not Catholic. So, her orientation, is having a negative effect on her moral position… would you not agree.

Charity yes… but it is she who proclaims what she is.

That should be considered just as much as one who includes in the bio things like atheist, Muslim, former Catholic etc. It is not uncharitable to try and further understand why someone might think the way they do.

In my case, I am a revert. After 25 years out of the Church, by grace I have come home. So my position on some things reflects my pre-VatII church “membership”, as much as my recognition that my time grows shorter (gray hair testify to that). I feel compelled to be direct more often than not.

Thanks for asking.
 
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MrS:
She has proclaimed herself as a lesbian Catholic on her profile. And it is certainly obvious herposition is not Catholic. So, her orientation, is having a negative effect on her moral position… would you not agree.

Charity yes… but it is she who proclaims what she is.

That should be considered just as much as one who includes in the bio things like atheist, Muslim, former Catholic etc. It is not uncharitable to try and further understand why someone might think the way they do.

In my case, I am a revert. After 25 years out of the Church, by grace I have come home. So my position on some things reflects my pre-VatII church “membership”, as much as my recognition that my time grows shorter (gray hair testify to that). I feel compelled to be direct more often than not.

Thanks for asking.
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You are absolutely right, I state my orientation because it is a part of who I am. Note that I said part, just as being an accountant is a part of me and being a cat lover is a part of me. None of these things, however, define me as a whole. I would not presume to tell you that being a catholic is all that you are. I’m sure that there are many other traits and characteristics that make up who you are. I would like to be extended the same courtesy.
Also, with regard to your previous post, you are wrong. I will have additional mouths to feed. My partner and I are in the middle of planning our family. My comments regarding abortion may have led you to believe that I support abortion, and I do. I do not, however, feel that it is something that should be used as a form of birth control, as I have unfortunately seen many people do. I feel that it is a last resort option in cases of emergency and especially rape. I am thankful that my partner and I get to plan and prepare for our child to ensure that we will be able to take as good care as possible of him/her.
 
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soulspeak23:
My comments regarding abortion may have led you to believe that I support abortion, and I do. I do not, however, feel that it is something that should be used as a form of birth control, as I have unfortunately seen many people do. I feel that it is a last resort option in cases of emergency and especially rape.
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Hi-

Glad to hear you don’t actually support abortion, and I hope that you feel your presence and comments are still welcome. With all charity, I believe the poster commenting on your orientation was truly trying to make a legitimate point as he/she has stated, not making a loaded comment, and I appreciate your further clarification. There is much obviously we disagree about, but it’s good to know there is something we can agree upon too.

If I could just address the comment about the abortion exception, in the case of emergency, rape and incest (incest commonly also included in these exceptions). IMHO as awful as those circumstances are, do we really have the right to still take a life?

In cases where the woman’s life is certainly in danger, there may be legitimate moral reasons, not necessarily for an abortion, but for medical care that may sadly end the life of the child. The problem is that the courts have determined that instances that constitute a danger to women’s health include things beyond a physical threat, essentially making abortion available for pretty much any reason throughout the entire nine months of pregnancy.

As for rape and incest, this occurence is actually very rare. Less than 1% of all reported abortions are done for this reason. To justify more than 1 million abortions for this reason isn’t very logical. Abortion also isn’t the most compassionate choice for a woman facing this terrible situation. IMPO it’s actually a very cynical exploitation disguised as “choice”. The woman still has to deal with the fact that she is ending the life of a human being, and studies show that abortions in this case, in almost any case, increase a woman’s turmoil rather than relieve it.

Sorry to hijack the thread, we certainly could open another one to debate these issues. I was just afraid that you maybe hadn’t heard the other side to that “exception” argument and I wanted to present some more information for others who may be “lurking” this thread.
 
**Global consequences of the falling birth rate **
life.org.nz/abortionkeyissuesimpactonsociety2.htm

Some quotes:
“The late economist, Julian Simon, argued that population growth and economic development went hand-in-hand.”

“U.N. data reveals that during the most recent time of fast population growth after 1948, quality of life has improved faster than ever before in world history.”

Also:
**The economic cost of abortion **
life.org.nz/abortionkeyissuesimpactonsociety.htm

Some of those 47 million would have married and had children of their own by now.
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Ant the murder toll grows:PF
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What would life in the USA be like if we had an extra 47 million poor, imbread, and drug damaged people in this country of 300 million people?
I don’t know how much you give to charity, but I bet it’s not enough to maintain our current standard of living which allows us to drive our SUVs and watch all the Cable TV we want with a jump in the poor and special needs population that big.

Sure you can say how can I compare TV and SUVs to abortion, but if you or I had to choose between abortion or not, It would be easy. Of course not. The fact that you can type on a computer almost says that. But the problem isn’t that simple for people adicted to drugs where abortion is the least of their worries. Personally I’d hate to see America become a third world country again.

Yes, I know we can’t predict how many would turn out that way if they were all born, but we also don’t know how many people would have created bigger problems by doing them illegally in an alley with a coat hanger had Row.v.Wade not happened.

Then your headline would have have read:
47 million women commited suicide in a back alley, men going nuts, turning gay for lack of women.
 
There are practical arguments that can be made against what zootjeff and soulspeak are saying (eg, there were much fewer ‘illegal’ abortions before Roe vs Wade than there are ‘legal’ abortions after, so it would be nothing like 47 million women, and what’s more illegal abortion was not that much more dangerous than legal - after Roe vs Wade we still had more than half the deaths of the mother per year than we had before. And, as you say, you’ve got no idea whether the extra 47 million people would have been poor and drug addicted or not). But instead of dwelling on those points, I’m going to try a spiritual approach.

Evil and sin not only offend God, but because all the rules God makes for us are good (God is loving and would never make a rule designed to make the world a worse place), evil and sin also make the world a worse place.

Abortion is always evil and sinful. It is one of the most direct violations of the 5th commandment, ‘Thou shalt not kill’, that we have ever come up with. Even if your intention is to ‘population control’ or to prevent social problems, it is still evil as an action of evil means is evil regardless of the motive or the ends. God knows that it is not going to work and so should we - look how much ‘fewer’ social problems we have these days since Roe vs Wade.

And anyway, better that we let someone grow up and possibly become a drug addict than we kill them while they are young and completely innocent. Otherwise why don’t we go around killing babies that are already born, especially those in poor families? Because me and you both know that it is wrong.

May God rest the souls of all those murdered innocents.
 
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WanderAimlessly:
Ant the murder toll grows:PF
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And yet it happens because, as Cardinal Ratzinger said before he become the 264th successor to St. Peter, “Europe’s Christian roots and foundation are being replaced by ‘modern Enlightenment philosophy’”. Such philosophies “recognize only what can be mathematically or scientifically proven, and deny any metaphysical reality”. Which has its roots in nihilistic secularism that poses greater threats to security, growing poverty, the dangers of genetic engineering, and a decline in “moral energy”.
 
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Flopfoot:
There are practical arguments that can be made against what zootjeff and soulspeak are saying (eg, there were much fewer ‘illegal’ abortions before Roe vs Wade than there are ‘legal’ abortions after, so it would be nothing like 47 million women, and what’s more illegal abortion was not that much more dangerous than legal - after Roe vs Wade we still had more than half the deaths of the mother per year than we had before. And, as you say, you’ve got no idea whether the extra 47 million people would have been poor and drug addicted or not). But instead of dwelling on those points, I’m going to try a spiritual approach.
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I totally agree with you. I just think that God should deal with the sinners and not the government. The only way that killing in times of war will be judged is through God, thus is the same for abortion. We’re fighting a holy war against the killings of abortion, the sinners can join us or have to face God.
 
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zootjeff:
I totally agree with you. I just think that God should deal with the sinners and not the government. The only way that killing in times of war will be judged is through God, thus is the same for abortion. We’re fighting a holy war against the killings of abortion, the sinners can join us or have to face God.
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Uh? You want us to just sit back while our brothers and sisters are being killed and ‘let God deal with the sinners’? Do you want to not have any laws against homicide either, let God deal with those murderers too? Why not invent other ways for people to commit atrocities so that sinners who commit them can face God too??? Do you see what I mean? Why would you want to allow things like this, surely you must have a better reason than just so we can let sinners do it. Although whatever reason you can give for allowing abortion, as I explained before, it’s not a good enough reason - abortion is still evil. As for the ‘government meddling’ argument, any government has an interest in protecting the lives of all its citizens, no matter what age they are. That’s why they make laws against murder. Governments which allow abortion are sinners themselves, they are partly culpable for every abortion they allow. So what if they don’t want to be sinners - can’t the government join the pro-life movement too and ban abortion?
 
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estesbob:
Soulspeak is a troll-please dont feed the trolls.
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Thank you so much for your kindness, estesbob. Maybe you could help me carry my club back to my cave? It’s getting a little heavy these days.
 
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zootjeff:
I totally agree with you. I just think that God should deal with the sinners and not the government.
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Our governments have a responsibility to protect the right for all its citizens to have life. twocents here… 🙂
 
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soulspeak23:
Thank you so much for your kindness, estesbob. Maybe you could help me carry my club back to my cave? It’s getting a little heavy these days.
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You said ’
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soulspeak23:
You’re proposing a country of aimless rabbit-women, just sittin around, waiting to pop out the next kid cause god said so.
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You expect people to take you seriously when you post garbage like that? I think not.
 
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estesbob:
You said ’

You expect people to take you seriously when you post garbage like that? I think not.
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Estesbob, let’s pray for this soul.

Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
 
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