Abortion Ugh

[brendenseth]

I had a discussion with friends of ours awhile ago, and they are Catholic. It was over a year ago while they were trying to get pregnant. To my surprise the female told me she would never have an abortion, but she didn’t have the right to tell anyone they couldn’t have one. Well needless to say they aren’t our friends anymore, in fact I don’t think we’ve hung out since that day. I was wondering if anyone else has ever run into this? Also how should I react in the future?

 

[1ke]

Yeah, it is pretty shocking when you realize that fellow Catholics are in fact pro-choice.

I can suggest Randy Alcorn’s book on pro-life responses to pro-choice arguments. It is excellent and really gives a lot of factual data to help with those crazy arguments people seem to throw out and catch you off guard.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

It’s a common attitude, unfortunately.

You can try – charitably of course – to point out the logical contradiction; for example, something like this. You wouldn’t want a law preventing the police from arresting suicide bombers because it interferes with the practice of their religion, and attempts to force “our morality” on them. Why should it be any different with the unborn?

In the end, though, if they won’t see it, you can’t make them.

 

[brendenseth]

Yeah, it is pretty shocking when you realize that fellow Catholics are in fact pro-choice.

I can suggest Randy Alcorn’s book on pro-life responses to pro-choice arguments. It is excellent and really gives a lot of factual data to help with those crazy arguments people seem to throw out and catch you off guard.

I actually found a really good book on abortion, and I bought it on Amazon. It’s called Abandoned: The Untold Story of the Abortion Wars. I personally couldn’t even finish it, because it was just too descriptive for me. It is a good deterrent for the pro choice crowd though. After she told me that I couldn’t believe it, so I sat with them and made them watch a movie on youtube called 180. It compares abortion to the holocaust, even though abortion is almost ten times the number of Jews that were slaughtered. Well she wasn’t happy I made them watch the video, so I went home to my wife and new baby. I feel bad for “giving up” on people, but nothing I say will give her a change of heart so is it really my duty to beat a dead horse so to speak?

 

[TerryOfromCA]

In 1857, the Supreme Court, in a 7-2 decision known as Dred Scott, declared that Negro slaves were neither citizens nor persons within the meaning of the law. People had a right to kill their slaves. Slave owners told abolitionists that if they thought slavery was wrong they needn’t buy one…

In 1973, the Supreme Court, in a 7-2 decision known as Roe v. Wade, declared that the unborn are not citizens nor persons within the meaning of the law. People have a right to kill their babies. “Pro-Choicers” tell Pro-Lifers that if they think abortion is wrong they needn’t have one.

When will the slaughter end. When will the evil end.

 

[jonathan_hili]

I had a discussion with friends of ours awhile ago, and they are Catholic. It was over a year ago while they were trying to get pregnant. To my surprise the female told me she would never have an abortion, but she didn’t have the right to tell anyone they couldn’t have one. Well needless to say they aren’t our friends anymore, in fact I don’t think we’ve hung out since that day. I was wondering if anyone else has ever run into this? Also how should I react in the future?

Yeah, it’s far too common a response.

Just press people on why they would never have one. You’ll eventually get to them admitting that abortion is killing an innocent baby. Oh, so you don’t think you have the right to tell others not to kill innocent babies? How odd…

 

[Christy_Beth]

Before becoming a Catholic, I was of that thought. My thinking was, “It might be ok for othersm, but I would never (hopefully and prayerfully) get myself in a situation where thoughts of an abortion would ever happen.” Notice, I said “hopefully and prayerfully.” I had been taught that a woman should never say no to a man, but that it’s her own fault if she gets pregnant before getting married.

 

[Pug]

To my surprise the female told me she would never have an abortion, but she didn’t have the right to tell anyone they couldn’t have one.

She said she didn’t think she had the right to tell other people certain things. And it is true that in some situations, we don’t have the right to tell certain people certain things. Perhaps she has absorbed a rule that society teaches about abortion, and then attached it to a real rule, and is now muddled in her thought process.

In that case I’d strive to show her that she can have rights that society doesn’t recognize and they are still rights and she still has them, and in fact she could have an actual duty that society doesn’t recognize, and in that case one must act in contradiction to society. This could be a hard step, but it would only be to her benefit to learn this (or bring it to her consciousness).

If you accomplish this level of understanding, maybe then you could talk about life or death situations and helping someone where you do have a duty to act or intervene. Maybe from that level you could move towards abortion, and how a person can and can’t intervene and how one discerns between the two.

Perhaps you could bring clarity to her on some level. It seems worth trying, except you are not in a relationship with the person anymore.

 

[brendenseth]

She said she didn’t think she had the right to tell other people certain things. And it is true that in some situations, we don’t have the right to tell certain people certain things. Perhaps she has absorbed a rule that society teaches about abortion, and then attached it to a real rule, and is now muddled in her thought process.

In that case I’d strive to show her that she can have rights that society doesn’t recognize and they are still rights and she still has them, and in fact she could have an actual duty that society doesn’t recognize, and in that case one must act in contradiction to society. This could be a hard step, but it would only be to her benefit to learn this (or bring it to her consciousness).

If you accomplish this level of understanding, maybe then you could talk about life or death situations and helping someone where you do have a duty to act or intervene. Maybe from that level you could move towards abortion, and how a person can and can’t intervene and how one discerns between the two.

Perhaps you could bring clarity to her on some level. It seems worth trying, except you are not in a relationship with the person anymore.

It’s funny they were trying so desperately to have a baby, so I bought them a very special prayer called the rosary novena. After I had this conversation with them and showed them the video hoping to change her mind she found out she was pregnant. It was amazing, and it happened toward the end of the petition phase. They never told us they were pregnant, and they have since written us off pretty much. They are the second couple that Mary helped get pregnant through her novena. We are very close with the other couple, I mean I’m happy for them and I wish them nothing but the best but I just wish she could understand her line of thinking is very destructive to her soul. A lot of people today have fallen into this despair I suppose, I just wish there was a way for people like me to reach them and actually save lives.

 

[Viki63]

I had a discussion with friends of ours awhile ago, and they are Catholic. It was over a year ago while they were trying to get pregnant. To my surprise the female told me she would never have an abortion, but she didn’t have the right to tell anyone they couldn’t have one. Well needless to say they aren’t our friends anymore, in fact I don’t think we’ve hung out since that day. I was wondering if anyone else has ever run into this? Also how should I react in the future?

Why are they not your friends anymore? Just because their thinking is muddled? But how will they learn to think more clearly if they just hang out with other confused people?
I would encourage you to make an effort to regain their friendship, and maybe avoid the topic for awhile. Let them see that you care about them whether or not you can agree on issues, just as God cares for us while he works on changing our minds.
God is working all the time in people’s hearts, although we often don’t see it.

 

[laircy]

l4l.org/library/persoppo.html
John Walker:

People tell us: “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but I think it should be legal.”
Perhaps the notable version of that comes from Roman Catholics abortion choicers: They insist they believe “what Catholics believe” on abortion, but don’t want to force their beliefs on others.

The usual pro-life response is to argue the substance of abortion: Are the preborn human beings with the right not to be killed? If so, should the government defend their rights along with everyone else’s?

Such a response can sometimes produce a profitable discussion, but it misses another point: What do people mean when they say they’re “personally opposed” but claim there is a “right” to abortion that must be protected by law?

Many pro-lifers will immediately answer that such people aren’t really opposed to abortion. That may well be true. But what if we accepted their words just as they gave them?

In fact, people paint themselves into a corner by saying they agree with what “Catholics” believe. The Church teaches that the preborn are persons, they have rights. If we take the words of such “personally opposed” people at face value, then, they are saying something quite different from merely disagreeing with that Church position. **What their words have said is that they believe the fetus is a person with rights, and they believe it should be legal for the mother to have that person killed just because she chooses to.

…**

Emphasis mine.

 

[Pug]

It’s funny they were trying so desperately to have a baby, so I bought them a very special prayer called the rosary novena. After I had this conversation with them and showed them the video hoping to change her mind she found out she was pregnant. It was amazing, and it happened toward the end of the petition phase. They never told us they were pregnant, and they have since written us off pretty much. They are the second couple that Mary helped get pregnant through her novena. We are very close with the other couple, I mean I’m happy for them and I wish them nothing but the best but I just wish she could understand her line of thinking is very destructive to her soul. A lot of people today have fallen into this despair I suppose, I just wish there was a way for people like me to reach them and actually save lives.

You can pray and sacrifice for this intention. For example, you could voluntarily eat a smaller lunch each Wednesday for the intention of all those who believe the way she does, that they may be abundantly blessed with understanding and grace. Also, enlist Mary to pray with you. As you point out, Our Lady is already interested and on the job, so to speak.

If this is close to your heart, this may be the direction to go for the moment, for a start. Ask God what to do to be of use to him, what he has in mind for you. I think I’ll go do that for myself right now, ask him. I just came back from our parish mission tonight and I need to ask him how to respond.

 

[Bradski]

In 1973, the Supreme Court, in a 7-2 decision known as Roe v. Wade, declared that the unborn are not citizens nor persons within the meaning of the law.

Those darned Democrats. Obviously stacking the Court in their favour to reflect their liberal agenda.

Oh, hang on. Out of those 7 who approved the decision, 5 were appointed by Republican presidents. And one of the two that dissented was appointed by a Democrat (Kennedy).

Whoda thought…

 

[Bradski]

Those darned Democrats. Obviously stacking the Court in their favour to reflect their liberal agenda.

Oh, hang on. What a pinhead I am…

Out of those 7 who approved the decision, 5 were appointed by Republican presidents. And one of the two that dissented was appointed by a Democrat (Kennedy).

Whoda thought…