Abortion Vote Exposes Rift at a Catholic University

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phil19034 said:
I think it’s time for Loyola Marymount University to decide if they want to remain a Catholic university or become a “Nonsectarian - founded Jesuit Catholics” university (like some of Ivy League schools now called themselves nonsectarian, but acknowledge their original protestant founding).

Same with the other Catholic Universities which have a student body and/or facility of lots of non-Catholics.
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That is in large part up to their ordinaries.
 
manualman said:
Oh please. Listen to yourself would you? Are you seriously arguing that organizations must choose between policies of:
  1. Only people just like us are permitted here, or:
  2. We not only welcome participation of those not just like us, but our central values matter so little to us that we’ll pay for things morally abhorrent to us if you want them!
You can’t conceive of:
3. As a catholic institution, we welcome those of other faiths and worldviews, but ask in return your respect for our identity and mission as a catholic institution.

Imagine yourself in 1850. Would you honestly expect a Quaker school to provide housing for the personal slaves of it’s wealthier students? Would accepting non-Quakers have made them honor-bound to participate in slavery? Of course not. You’d laugh at anybody who suggested something so silly.
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I can certainly conceive of number 3.- As a catholic institution, we welcome those of other faiths and worldviews, but ask in return your respect for our identity and mission as a catholic institution. The Baptist universities take people outside their faith… but I know for a FACT they don’t mess around with anything even BORDERING immorality. In their book this would and does include: popping open a beer, lighting up a cig, putting up a bikini model poster, tattoos of any kind, no body jewelry on men and ears only for girls. No discussions, no demonstrations no nothing.

I am not saying Catholic Universitys should send out the religious police… but abortion demonstrations and drag shows? I don’t think so.
 
phil19034 said:
I think this compromise would be more acceptable if the alternative plan is ONLY allowed for current (non-Catholic) employees.

New employees should be hired knowing that elective abortion is not an option.
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There can be no compromise on abortion, it doesn’t matter that the individuals involved are not Catholic, it matters that the institution is. With that said, a Catholic institution cannot accept participation in evil, whether directly or indirectly.
 
Lapey said:
There can be no compromise on abortion, it doesn’t matter that the individuals involved are not Catholic, it matters that the institution is. With that said, a Catholic institution cannot accept participation in evil, whether directly or indirectly.
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My understanding of the compromise is they are not funding abortion either directly or indirectly.
 
Ender said:
Perhaps you should examine your own perception that attending an authentically Catholic school (like Thomas Aquinas) necessitates the acceptance of lowered academic standards. It’s not immediately clear why reading the books written by Newton and Galileo is an inferior method of learning than reading books about the books they wrote.

The textbooks for the four years at Aquinas can all be purchased as a set. It’s called the “Great Books of the Western World” and I’m reasonably sure a familiarity with the knowledge they contain constitutes an acceptably high academic standard.

Ender
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Ok, I’ll bite. If you want the best education in order to be successful in the work world, would you attend a very small Catholic college or Harvard? I spent the 40k a year plus the grants and scholarships my daughter earned and sent her to LMU. She had an awesome education and now is a practicing attorney in the entertainment business. If she had the SAT scores and grades to get into an Ivy League the I would have sent her there. While at LMU she spent a semester in Germany with an LMU group headed by a Jesuit then during her senior year she worked for a law firm in London sponsored through LMU. There was resident priest in her freshman dorm who was always there to help out. Guess what? My 29 year old goes to mass regularly. I don’t think anyone who hasn’t had actual experience with LMU should be making rash judgements about it. Just my 2 cents…
 
estesbob said:
My understanding of the compromise is they are not funding abortion either directly or indirectly.
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Providing the plan is indirect participation even though no university money pays for it.

I agree with the spokes person’s analogy of, “I can’t give you a ride to the abortion clinic, but let me call my brother to bring you so my hands will be clean.” This is a farce.
 
kozlosap said:
Ok, I’ll bite. If you want the best education in order to be successful in the work world, would you attend a very small Catholic college or Harvard? I spent the 40k a year plus the grants and scholarships my daughter earned and sent her to LMU. She had an awesome education and now is a practicing attorney in the entertainment business. If she had the SAT scores and grades to get into an Ivy League the I would have sent her there. While at LMU she spent a semester in Germany with an LMU group headed by a Jesuit then during her senior year she worked for a law firm in London sponsored through LMU. There was resident priest in her freshman dorm who was always there to help out. Guess what? My 29 year old goes to mass regularly. I don’t think anyone who hasn’t had actual experience with LMU should be making rash judgements about it. Just my 2 cents…
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As an undergrad alum of LMU, I can attest that LMU is a great school. My Intro to the Old Testament class was taught by world-renowned scripture scholar who isn’t Catholic. In fact, he’s Quaker, but my classmates and I learned so much. If one goes to small Catholic College, you are more than likely to learn only the Catholic viewpoint. At LMU, not only do you learn the Catholic viewpoint, you also learn about the other viewpoints. This interdisciplinary approach to education, from my experience, has given me a better understanding and deeper appreciation of my own Catholic faith and fosters mutual respect in dialogue with other faiths. 🙂
 
Jesuit Campus to End Coverage for Elective Abortions
LOS ANGELES — The trustees of Loyola Marymount University, a Jesuit university in Los Angeles, voted Monday to eliminate coverage for elective abortions from the health care plans offered to faculty and staff members in 2014.
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“The right to life and dignity for every human being is a fundamental part of Catholic beliefs (all other rights flow from this primary right to life and dignity),” said a letter to faculty and staff members from the university president, David W. Burcham, and the chairwoman of the board of trustees, Kathleen Hannon Aikenhead.
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Therapeutic abortions and contraception will continue to be covered. In addition, another health care plan that includes coverage for elective abortions, which will be managed by a third party, will be made available to faculty and staff members at “a slightly higher premium.”
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Faculty members on both sides of the debate over the university’s abortion coverage expressed disappointment.
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“I don’t think this is morally coherent,” Christopher Kaczor, a philosophy professor who had pushed the university to eliminate its abortion coverage, wrote in an e-mail. “It is like saying, ‘Since I believe abortion is intentional killing, I won’t drive you to the clinic, but I’ll arrange for my brother to drive you there if you pay him a few bucks.’ ”
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Lapey said:
There can be no compromise on abortion, it doesn’t matter that the individuals involved are not Catholic, it matters that the institution is. With that said, a Catholic institution cannot accept participation in evil, whether directly or indirectly.
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Well, it looks like LMU did compromise here. "I’m disappointed,” said philosophy professor Christopher Kaczor. “What LMU did is basically offer an option for employees to sign up in order to receive elective abortions. Now they have to pay for this option, but still I think it’s inappropriate and inconsistent with our mission as a Jesuit school to do that.”… “The decision basically is something like this: we think abortion is intrinsically evil and wrong so we’re not going to drive you there, but let me arrange for my brother to take you there if you give him a couple bucks he’ll take care of you,” he said. “Well that doesn’t really make sense. If abortion is really seriously wrong you don’t arrange for someone else to facilitate it. And that’s exactly what LMU did.”
losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/10/07/lmu-trustees-vote-to-eliminate-elective-abortion-coverage-from-employee-health-plan/
 
Why is this up for debate? My understanding was that LMU, as a large employer that receives federal funding (government student loans, etc), has to comply with the contraception mandate.

Only religious institutions like churches and seminaries are exempted
 
LiberalPrincess said:
Why is this up for debate? My understanding was that LMU, as a large employer that receives federal funding (government student loans, etc), has to comply with the contraception mandate.
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Funding from the federal government is irrelevant. The HHS mandate applies to all employers, regardless of their relationship with the federal government.
LiberalPrincess said:
Only religious institutions like churches and seminaries are exempted
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Right. The only Catholic institutions exempt are those that employ Catholics and serve Catholics. Go outside of the Catholic sphere (employment or service) and now you are mandated to provide contraceptive coverage.
 
Suudy said:
The HHS mandate applies to all employers, regardless of their relationship with the federal government.
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But my understanding is that certain insurance plans are exempted, like Medi-Share and such. I don’t know the exact legalities to comment further.
 
ProVobis said:
But my understanding is that certain insurance plans are exempted, like Medi-Share and such. I don’t know the exact legalities to comment further.
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Exempt from the HHS mandate? Or exempt from the Obamacare “tax” for meeting minimum coverage requirements? As I understand it, it is only the latter.
 
LiberalPrincess said:
Why is this up for debate? My understanding was that LMU, as a large employer that receives federal funding (government student loans, etc), has to comply with the contraception mandate.

Only religious institutions like churches and seminaries are exempted
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And that is the problem and why do many Catholic institutions are suing…I had to stop my employees insurance coverage because of the mandate
 
estesbob said:
And that is the problem and why do many Catholic institutions are suing…I had to stop my employees insurance coverage because of the mandate
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Hasn’t the mandate been put on hold while the Hobby Lobby case is moving forward?
LiberalPrincess said:
Why is this up for debate? My understanding was that LMU, as a large employer that receives federal funding (government student loans, etc), has to comply with the contraception mandate.

Only religious institutions like churches and seminaries are exempted
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First of all, although birth control can cause abortions through blockage of implantation, the HHS mandate does not demand that employers cover abortions after implantation, which is the policy being discussed here. They would have been legally sound to completely block all abortion coverage whatsoever, and I’m disappointed in LMU that they didn’t. We cannot simultaneously mourn the loss of the unborn and provide an avenue through which people can get coverage for their future murder of the unborn.

Not to mention, the HHS mandate is going before the Supreme Court this year, and I fully expect it to be ruled unconstitutional 👍.
 
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