E
estesbob
Guest
Looks like plain ol Catholicism to me-nothing Liberal or conservative about it
- Status
E
Elizabeth502
Guest
I think my point slipped quite by you.
E
estesbob
Guest
That happens a lot to me!I think my point slipped quite by you.
M
Michael57
Guest
Well put.
I can see myself being a progressive Catholic.
I hope to progress in the formation of my conscience and faith.
I hope to progress in my obedience to my Lord, and my Church. I hope to progress in the perfection of my faith so that I may become more like the man that the Lord desires me to be. I hope to progress in all virtues. I hope to progress as a child of God, following the path of righteousness in full communion and of one accord with all that is established my our Church in the CCC.
But somehow, I don’t think this is what LP means by “progressive”; I look forward to hearing her perspective sometime.
E
EastWest
Guest
I think we should be very prudent when quoting scripture out of context. Sacred Scripture can be very diffult to understand; and is not for private interpretation. 2 Peter 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20.I think my point slipped quite by you.
E
Elizabeth502
Guest
Except that…
(1) I wasn’t engaging in private interpretation
(2) I am in fact trained in Catholic scripture scholarship
(3) I was not “quoting out of context.”
(And that was the second person who failed to…well…get the gist of both long posts, in the context of this thread and the postings therein).
Speaking of context.
M
Michael57
Guest
And I am remiss in that I should have complemented you on your fines posts regarding Liberal and Progressive Catholicism. :tiphat:Except that…
(1) I wasn’t engaging in private interpretation
(2) I am in fact trained in Catholic scripture scholarship
(3) I was not “quoting out of context.”
(And that was the second person who failed to…well…get the gist of both long posts, in the context of this thread and the postings therein).
Speaking of context.
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
It’s like a title that liberals throw around to make themselves feel important
Like many other plays on words from “rights” to “marriage” it usually involves some kind of opposite meaning.
Progressive policies, though its advocates think otherwise, are regressive and unoriginal.
It’s the same recycled garbage-- neatly repackaged-- that has helped level civilization after civilization after civilization.
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
He provided the proof.And I’m sure you don’t have any unusual bias against progressives!
Where’s yours?
Just another reason to send federal money back.
No, Catholic institutions are not bound by secular laws when they violate Catholic teaching. In fact, there may be an obligation to refute and not comply with such laws.
But you did at least answer the question from my other post. It’s clear to me that God is not your top priority.
Stop making excuses and trying to live in two worlds.
It’s either or God or those progressive pals of yours who could very well laugh in their sleeve at your religion.
You cannot serve both God and mammon.
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
He provided the proof.And I’m sure you don’t have any unusual bias against progressives!
Where’s yours?
M
Michael57
Guest
Well, I appreciate your reply, but I was directing this specifically at the poster that I was replying to in this thread.It’s like a title that liberals throw around to make themselves feel important
Like many other plays on words from “rights” to “marriage” it usually involves some kind of opposite meaning.
Progressive policies, though its advocates think otherwise, are regressive and unoriginal.
It’s the same recycled garbage-- neatly repackaged-- that has helped level civilization after civilization after civilization.
I really want to know what she thinks “Progressive” means, and I’d like to hear what a “Progressive Catholic” is as well.
I have asked several times in other threads, and don’t seem to get a reply.
J
janeway529
Guest
Looks like the debate has spread to other Catholic universities and colleges.
contracostatimes.com/rss/ci_24324543
contracostatimes.com/rss/ci_24324543
E
estesbob
Guest
“Progressive Catholic” is code for “I vote Democrat”It’s like a title that liberals throw around to make themselves feel important
Like many other plays on words from “rights” to “marriage” it usually involves some kind of opposite meaning.
Progressive policies, though its advocates think otherwise, are regressive and unoriginal.
It’s the same recycled garbage-- neatly repackaged-- that has helped level civilization after civilization after civilization.
T
TheresaLS
Guest
Thank you for the clarification…every “progressive catholic” that I know will tell you that democrats are more Christian…
E
Ender
Guest
I think this is a true statement (that progressives believe they are more Christian, not that they in fact are) and this is a large part of the problem. So long as people believe their position on political issues is the morally just one - and that the opposition position is merely an expression of greed, indifference, hatred, etc - then it is a simple matter to excuse supporting issues (or the politicians that advocate them) that the church has condemned. It is part of the “nobody’s perfect but at least I won’t throw grandma out in the snow” rationalization that enables one to do as he pleases.
Ender
A
Arizona_Mike
Guest
Classical Liberalism holds the view that opposing viewpoints should be openly examined in the marketplace of ideas. It supports a political philosophy based on the freedom of the individual, and supports freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom to own and use property, and civil rights.It’s like a title that liberals throw around to make themselves feel important
Like many other plays on words from “rights” to “marriage” it usually involves some kind of opposite meaning.
Progressive policies, though its advocates think otherwise, are regressive and unoriginal.
It’s the same recycled garbage-- neatly repackaged-- that has helped level civilization after civilization after civilization.
Progressivism holds that the correct viewpoints have already been discovered by the movement, and so viewpoints in opposition should not be allowed to be expressed and may be suppressed using the power of the state. It supports a philosophy that individual rights, such as freedom of expression, religion, private property rights, and civil rights are granted by the state and that such individual rights are subordinated to the general good of those classes and groups that support the state and are officially recognized and protected by the state.
Political affiliation, correctly understood, is not represented as a line, with those of the Left on one end and those of the Right on another. It is a circle, and the political methods of those on the far Right, while they may differ in which group’s goals are supported and advanced, are ultimately indistinguishable from those on the far Left. The far Left and the far Right meet at some point on the circle as their political methods and goals (increased power for the apparatus of the state at the expense of traditional values) coincide. The Progressive movement of the early twentieth century created both Fascism and Soviet Communism.
“Liberalism” as a term is commonly misused as a blanket term for the political Left, but that is technically incorrect. It is a term for a worldview and an Anthropology (to use the term in the European sense) of Man that has been essentially abandoned by the Progressive movement in all but rhetoric.
E
Elizabeth502
Guest
This:
To “be Christian” or “more Christian [than thou]”, one must first know, understand, and accept all of what Christ said, affirmed, reinforced, and followed, not just some of it, buffet-style.
And when one’s compass is off, one may be heading South, not North.
To “be Christian” or “more Christian [than thou]”
, one must first know, understand, and accept all of what Christ said, affirmed, reinforced, and followed, not just some of it, buffet-style.
E
Ender
Guest
Part of the problem is surely the belief that one’s conscience, not the church, is the final arbiter of morality, but there is more to it than that. It hardly makes sense to style oneself a better Christian than those who are in accord with church doctrine even if one is absolutely sure his (contrary) position is valid. The feeling of moral superiority comes not from the specific teachings (contraception is wrong) but from the generic ones like feed the poor. It comes from a conviction that one’s personal solutions to social problems are so transparently right that the only reason someone else could reject them is from impure motives.To “be Christian” or “more Christian [than thou]”
Rebuttal arguments are rarely “You are mistaken because of …”. They are inevitably “You are: bigoted, homophobic, xenophobic, selfish, greedy … cowardly, dirty, and unChristian.” This is the real source of the “I’m a better Christian” syndrome and I have to say that the bishops - inadvertently or not - have contributed to this problem.
Look at all the posts in this forum that take the form of “The bishops support X, you oppose X, therefore you oppose the church and are by definition a poor Christian.” It is the mindset behind virtually all appeals to the comments of Bishop Soandso. The perfect example of this might be the arguments used against Congressman Ryan’s budget proposal and it is this thinking that is the basis for the progressive belief that they are better Christians than their political opponents.
Ender
C
CaptFun
Guest
Because people who won’t scruple to kill innocent babies without a trial and for any reason at all rather than a regrettable medical necessity NOT aimed at deliberately killing the baby but “losing” it per triage while saving the mother first – find lesser sins easier to commit as well.How can any Catholic University call itself Catholic if its principles and tenets are not in agreement with Catholicism?
A rift! I wonder. Is there a rift in feminism on abortion (one we’d ever hear about I mean)?
Almost more amazing to me is that “lukewarmness” actually can be “committed to!”
Allowing this to even approach becoming a controversy is the indulgence of secret allies of the (pro-abortion) “dissidents”; or lethargic guardians of Church teaching shrugging their shoulders in the name of a dubious “academic freedom”. Or perhaps people who are dirty from this moral plague from past actions and feel that they then can’t shine light in certain dark places because they themselves at one time made the mistake of: (having, encouraging, paying for, counselling or voting for politicians or parties that promoted) abortion – feeling that they are unqualified now to oppose it.
- right about now the “yes but …” people tend to show up to lecture us on the necessity of manners, politeness, openness, “charity” *-whaaaaat? * or some other change of subject that works to the end of giving abortion cover … even on Catholic holy ground.I hope NOT to see them though. :sad_yes:
- Status