Abortion vs Captial Punishment

  • Thread starter Thread starter JoeyWarren
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JoeyWarren:
But you rather vote for a person that will destroy this country by other means?
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I would not vote for either,If that was the case. Fortunately i have never run intothat although i have sat out elections where my only choice was two pro-abortion canidadtes.
 
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DreadVandal:
Actually, read Romans carefully and you will see that St. Paul says that the state is the agent of God. So yes, the state can act as God in taking life when it is according to the Natural Law. The death penalty, when justly, swiftly and publicly applied, is good. It restores the balance of justice, it removes a cancer from society, and it deters others from committing the crime. In fact, when the condemned accepts his punishment as being just, he expiates his crime through his own death.
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Paul at one time was a cancer of society. He was responsible for many Christians being slaughter over the course of years prior to Jesus appearing to him. HIs zealous slaughtering started when we took great relish in the stoning of ST. Stephen. So based on that Paul was worthy of being stoned to death, regardless of the intervention of Christ?
 
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estesbob:
I would not vote for either,If that was the case. Fortunately i have never run intothat although i have sat out elections where my only choice was two pro-abortion canidadtes.
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Your no vote makes it easier for the greater of two evils to attain office. Your responsiblity is to vote for the lesser of two evils so that the destruction done is minimized. A no vote parallels those who kept on walking past the injured person in the parable of the good samaritan. The good samaritan chose the lesser of two evils. The greater evil was ignoring the situation. The lesser evil was helping someone that might have killed him or others later.
 
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DreadVandal:
Jesus was saying that as Christians we are not to seek personal revenge and retaliate. Rather, we should accept abuse from others in Christ’s name to convert them to the Gospel…
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And if you execute them, you can’t convert them to the Gospel.
 
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JoeyWarren:
Paul at one time was a cancer of society. He was responsible for many Christians being slaughter over the course of years prior to Jesus appearing to him. HIs zealous slaughtering started when we took great relish in the stoning of ST. Stephen. So based on that Paul was worthy of being stoned to death, regardless of the intervention of Christ?
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Are you claiming that civil authorties do not have power, from God, to enforce just laws including capital punishment?
 
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fix:
It does not say killing is wrong. It says killing innocents is wrong. How can self defense be wrong?
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Self defense can be wrong if you shoot with the intent to kill in lieu of shooting to disarm or incapacitate.
 
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JoeyWarren:
Self defense can be wrong if you shoot with the intent to kill in lieu of shooting to disarm or incapacitate.
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Yes, but when the state directs the death penalty the state is willing the death and they have that authority while we as individuals do not.
 
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fix:
Are you claiming that civil authorties do not have power, from God, to enforce just laws including capital punishment?
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No. But note: If God has given the authority in all manners then God has given the authority to kill the unborn. So the question becomes. Is our government God given? Based on the it’s authority to kill the unborn? NO!
 
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fix:
Yes, but when the state directs the death penalty the state is willing the death and they have that authority while we as individuals do not.
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Ditto for this too from the above post.
 
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JoeyWarren:
No. But note: If God has given the authority in all manners then God has given the authority to kill the unborn. So the question becomes. Is our government God given? Based on the it’s authority to kill the unborn? NO!
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No, there is no authority to do evil. Abortion is not licit, but capital punishment is licit. The government does not have to be “God given” to excercise their right to enforce just laws. Just because unjust laws exist does not mean the entire enterprise is corrupt and may be dismissed.
 
I could also propose this argument:

You pay taxes to your government.
Your taxes supports your government.
Your government supports abortion.
Your taxes supports the abortion law.
You support the abortion by default. :eek:
 
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turboEDvo:
No, the church teaches that killing another human being is never “right” but can be morally justified if it is necessary to protect others AND non-lethal means to prevent the deaths of others at the hands of the accused does not exist.

There is a difference. The church DOES teach that killing another human is never right, only justifiable in certain circumstances.

Eamon
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Sort of,

The Church has recognized that the execution of criminals can serve the cause of Justice, which is a Moral Good.

And it also recognizes that God, has, in the past, commanded that the death penalty be imposed. God can command only Good.

So the use of the death penalty, can, on rare occasions, be a Moral Good and Just thing.

Abortion can never be.

Council of Trent
Another kind of lawful slaying belongs to the civil authorities, to whom is entrusted power of life and death, by the legal and judicious exercise of which they punish the guilty and protect the innocent. The just use of this power, far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this Commandment which prohibits murder. The end of the Commandment? is the preservation and security of human life. Now the punishments inflicted by the civil authority, which is the legitimate avenger of crime, naturally tend to this end, since they give security to life by repressing outrage and violence. Hence these words of David: In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land, that I might cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord.
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fix:
No, there is no authority to do evil. Abortion is not licit, but capital punishment is licit. The government does not have to be “God given” to excercise their right to enforce just laws. Just because unjust laws exist does not mean the entire enterprise is corrupt and may be dismissed.
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Definition of Licit: Permitted by law; legal
Abortion is legal by definition.
 
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JoeyWarren:
Definition of Licit: Permitted by law; legal
Abortion is legal by definition.
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I was referring to morally licit. That is not against the moral law.
 
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fix:
I was referring to morally licit. That is not against the moral law.
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I would argue that Capital Punishment is not morally licit either when indefinite imprisonment can achieve the same result and possible offer the offender to repent of his sins and come to the communion with God that God wants for all of us.

We are no longer barbarians without humanity.
 
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JoeyWarren:
Paul at one time was a cancer of society. He was responsible for many Christians being slaughter over the course of years prior to Jesus appearing to him. HIs zealous slaughtering started when we took great relish in the stoning of ST. Stephen. So based on that Paul was worthy of being stoned to death, regardless of the intervention of Christ?
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so what is your point?
 
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JoeyWarren:
I would argue that Capital Punishment is not morally licit either when indefinite imprisonment can achieve the same result and possible offer the offender to repent of his sins and come to the communion with God that God wants for all of us.

We are no longer barbarians without humanity.
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In general, I am against capital punishment. My point is the Church does not say that capital punishment is always wrong and may never be done.
 
Fix, without sounding uncharitable, you sound more like a Protestant. I have had this same debate with my two Fundalmentalists brothers, one of whom is Bishop for the Church of God.
 
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JoeyWarren:
And if you execute them, you can’t convert them to the Gospel.
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Actually, impending execution can be quite the motivation for conversion; whereas an life in prison allows one to put off conversion indefinitely.
 
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JoeyWarren:
Your no vote makes it easier for the greater of two evils to attain office. Your responsiblity is to vote for the lesser of two evils so that the destruction done is minimized. A no vote parallels those who kept on walking past the injured person in the parable of the good samaritan. The good samaritan chose the lesser of two evils. The greater evil was ignoring the situation. The lesser evil was helping someone that might have killed him or others later.
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There is NOTHING more evil than abortion in this Counrty. Too often Catholics use the stale old lesser of two evil arguments to vote for pro-abortion candidates. They falsely convince themselves that ones views on the proper role of welfare , affirmative action , so called homosexual rights, tax policy or any other number of liberal sacred cows trumps a candidates support for the death of 1.2 million children a year. Sometimes they even delude themselves into thinking that mere acknowledgement by a candidate the they are personally opposed to abortion or want to limit the number of abortions makes it OK to vote for them. Meanwhile the slaughter goes on-often with the complicit support of Catholics.
 
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