Abortion vs Captial Punishment

  • Thread starter Thread starter JoeyWarren
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
fix:
In general, I am aginst capital punishment. My point is the Church does not say that capital punishment is always wrong and may never be done.
Click to expand...
Well thank you for clarifying that and disregard the last post.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
Fix, without sounding uncharitable, you sound more like a Protestant. I have had this same debate with my two Fundalmentalists brothers, one of whom is Bishop for the Church of God.
Click to expand...
Really? Why do you say that? I accept all that the Church teaches. That is why I reject the statements that claim capital punishment is equal to abortion and things like that as that is contrary to CC teaching.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
No. But note: If God has given the authority in all manners then God has given the authority to kill the unborn. So the question becomes. Is our government God given? Based on the it’s authority to kill the unborn? NO!
Click to expand...
That is absolutely absurd. I would suggest reading a book in basic logic.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
And if you execute them, you can’t convert them to the Gospel.
Click to expand...
that is not necessarily true.

Timothy McVeigh, for example. He was baptized a Catholic but was not a practicing Catholic (obviously :eek: )

But on the eve of his execution, he requested a priest to hear his confession, and he also received Last Rites.

Which is really interesting, as the Last Rites include an Apostolic Blessing, which is a plenary indulgence. A plenary indulgence remits all temporal punishment (purgatory), as does the willing acceptance of just punishment.

So it Timothy was properly disposed to receive the Absolution and indulgences, there is an excellent chance he went straight to heaven.
 
40.png
DreadVandal:
Actually, impending execution can be quite the motivation for conversion; whereas an life in prison allows one to put off conversion indefinitely.
Click to expand...
Conversion under Duress? Is that your solution? I rather let a person live and make his own decsion while he sits in his cell.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
Conversion under Duress? Is that your solution? I rather let a person live and make his own decsion while he sits in his cell.
Click to expand...
How is that circumstance anymore conversion under duress than many other circumstances folks face death with each day? How about folks in a motor vehicle accident who know they are dying and repent? Is that duress?
 
40.png
Brendan:
So it Timothy was properly disposed to receive the Absolution and indulgences, there is an excellent chance he went straight to heaven.
Click to expand...
I agree 100% on this issue, but if your were to say that to ones who lost children in the daycare who are not Catholic, they would probably stone you and I. Most are hoping that he is burning in hell…to use the Protestant belief.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
I agree 100% on this issue, but if your were to say that to ones who lost children in the daycare who are not Catholic, they would probably stone you and I. Most are hoping that he is burning in hell…to use the Protestant belief.
Click to expand...
Okay, but what does that have to do with the death penalty? You are associating the death penalty with impassioned hatred and personal vengeance. I will grant you that to many people that is what the death penalty is for and yes, they are aboslutely resolute in not forgiving. However, that is precisely why the state administers the death penalty. The hand of justice should be firm and cold. Also, we can say, “I forgive you, now serve your sentence.”
 
40.png
fix:
How is that circumstance anymore conversion under duress than many other circumstances folks face death with each day? How about folks in a motor vehicle accident who know they are dying and repent? Is that duress?
Click to expand...
Again another definition is needed:
DURESS: Constraint by threat; coercion:
A carwreck is an accident and does not fall under the generalization of duress. Imminent Execution falls more under duress.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
Now Bush has handed our ports over to the Arabs. That scares the hell out of me.
Click to expand...
Did you know that the Democrats “beloved” Mr. Clinton is an EMPLOYEE of the same Arabs that the are going to be managing terminal operations in the US ports? Did you have a problem with Clinton allowing the COMMUNIST CHINESE to manage ports in California? If we let a communist country that happens to be a long term enemy run our ports, then why not an Arabic country that happens to be an Ally?
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
Again another definition is needed:
DURESS: Constraint by threat; coercion:
A carwreck is an accident and does not fall under the generalization of duress. Imminent Execution falls more under duress.
Click to expand...
Death is death. The car accident is no more deadly than an injection.
 
40.png
Isidore_AK:
Did you know that the Democrats “beloved” Mr. Clinton is an EMPLOYEE of the same Arabs that the are going to be managing terminal operations in the US ports? Did you have a problem with Clinton allowing the COMMUNIST CHINESE to manage ports in California? If we let a communist country that happens to be a long term enemy run our ports, then why not an Arabic country that happens to be an Ally?
Click to expand...
And of course what he posted has nothing to do with what we are discussing. But it is the DNC talking point of the week so he had to slip it in someplace…
 
40.png
DreadVandal:
Okay, but what does that have to do with the death penalty? You are associating the death penalty with impassioned hatred and personal vengeance. I will grant you that to many people that is what the death penalty is for and yes, they are aboslutely resolute in not forgiving. However, that is precisely why the state administers the death penalty. The hand of justice should be firm and cold. Also, we can say, “I forgive you, now serve your sentence.”
Click to expand...
That is one of my points, the whole reason for the death penalty is because of the result of sin of Anger and Revenge and the barbaric blood lust some people have. God created us not only in his image physically but intelligently as well. Does God have have a bloodlust? More importantly does Jesus have a blood lust.

I ask you to envision all of the children coming to Christ and sitting on his lap and at his feet. Now envision a man sitting in an electric chair. Now envision that same Christ with children walking up and throwing the switch. It’s the basic WWJD question. I just don’t see Christ throwing the switch. I see him asking the Executione " Are you without sin" And I see him asking the Jurors " Are you without sin" and then asking the Judge and Prosecutor “Are you without sin”
 
Yeah sorry. Off topic. Just P’d me off…the ignorance of it all…
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
That is one of my points, the whole reason for the death penalty is because of the result of sin of Anger and Revenge and the barbaric blood lust some people have. God created us not only in his image physically but intelligently as well. Does God have have a bloodlust? More importantly does Jesus have a blood lust.

I ask you to envision all of the children coming to Christ and sitting on his lap and at his feet. Now envision a man sitting in an electric chair. Now envision that same Christ with children walking up and throwing the switch. It’s the basic WWJD question. I just don’t see Christ throwing the switch. I see him asking the Executione " Are you without sin" And I see him asking the Jurors " Are you without sin" and then asking the Judge and Prosecutor “Are you without sin”
Click to expand...
I don’t know, this is the same Christ that will Judge all at the last judgement…the same one that will condemn most to Hell & Damnation for all eternity. I think he’d throw the switch…after all, he did go after the moneylenders in the temple with a whip… 👍
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
I ask you to envision all of the children coming to Christ and sitting on his lap and at his feet. Now envision a man sitting in an electric chair. Now envision that same Christ with children walking up and throwing the switch. It’s the basic WWJD question. I just don’t see Christ throwing the switch. I see him asking the Executione " Are you without sin" And I see him asking the Jurors " Are you without sin" and then asking the Judge and Prosecutor “Are you without sin”
Click to expand...
You see this in a skewed manner. That is what happens when we parse out a few bible verses without seeing context and reconciling all of Scritpture and Sacred Tradition. IMO, WWJD is Protestant and a bit new age like.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
Self defense can be wrong if you shoot with the intent to kill in lieu of shooting to disarm or incapacitate.
Click to expand...
Legally or morally? Are they equivilant?
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
That is one of my points, the whole reason for the death penalty is because of the result of sin of Anger and Revenge and the barbaric blood lust some people have. God created us not only in his image physically but intelligently as well. Does God have have a bloodlust? More importantly does Jesus have a blood lust.
Click to expand...
You don’t think that over-crowded prisons or the fact that it costs the state hundreds of millions of dollars that comes out of hard-working tax-payers pockets has anything to do with it?
I ask you to envision all of the children coming to Christ and sitting on his lap and at his feet. Now envision a man sitting in an electric chair. Now envision that same Christ with children walking up and throwing the switch. It’s the basic WWJD question. I just don’t see Christ throwing the switch. I see him asking the Executione " Are you without sin" And I see him asking the Jurors " Are you without sin" and then asking the Judge and Prosecutor “Are you without sin”
Click to expand...
Why didn’t Jesus say a *word *against the Roman Empire and their atrocities, especially during a time of war? Why did Jesus never criticize the Government for what it practiced? If you want to take the WWJD argument to its logical end, you wouldn’t say anything against the Government and just let them be.
 
40.png
estesbob:
And of course what he posted has nothing to do with what we are discussing. But it is the DNC talking point of the week so he had to slip it in someplace…
Click to expand...
Your forgiven for going off subject. First of all I am neither a Democrat or a Republican. And as for Clinton, I did not vote for him or the father of the current idiot in office. I voted for Ross Perot.

As for the China thing, I have no knowlege of this. No do I recall there being any big deal about it. And if there was it was not noticable.

Furthermore if your thing is against China and if you feel strongly about, then please do an inventory of all you have and throw away everything made in China. BTW if you have a DELL computer system, It was manufactured in China, throw it away as well. My own priest warns us about buying knick knacks from Cracker Barrel because the vast majority of the stuff they offer is made my imprisoned Christians.

Unlike the Arabs, the Chinese are not seeking to kill us at every turn in the name of religion.

Don’t get me wrong, They are both bad.
 
40.png
JoeyWarren:
I agree 100% on this issue, but if your were to say that to ones who lost children in the daycare who are not Catholic, they would probably stone you and I. Most are hoping that he is burning in hell…to use the Protestant belief.
Click to expand...
It which case, it would be either an excellent chance to catechize them on the nature of Mercy, or an excellent chance to be a martyr. Either case, it’s a win-win 👍

But your statement was still incorrect. There is no less of an oppurtunity for the Spirit to work for conversion in D.P. cases or in Life (name removed by moderator)risonment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top