Abortion. would you rather she...

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Still waiting, and still asking:
Asking again:

You hear a woman friend murdered someone.

Would you rather she murdered the person by crossing a border illegally to do so?
Or would you rather she murdered the person right in town?

I mean, isn’t it ‘better’ if she didn’t go across the border? I mean, she would put herself in jeopardy of being arrested by doing something illegal like crossing a border that way.

Isn’t it ‘better’ that she murdered a person right there in town all safely? Wasn’t it better that she considered her health and made sure she was perfectly ‘safe’ by murdering in town?
 
Zatzat said:
A hypothetical scenario;

You have a female acquaintance and you just found out that she had an abortion. This female lives in a state where abortion is illegal. However, the woman lives beside a state that has legalized abortion.

Upon hearing the news, would you rather hear that;

A). The woman sought an illegal back alley abortion.

B). The woman sought a legal abortion in a modern health care facility.

Discuss.
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i would wonder why my friend didn’t have her illegal abortion in the office (I would say doctor’s office, but people performing abortions are not required to be MDs) like everyone else who has illegal abortions. What would make it illegal would be if, say, the woman was under 16 and procured her abortion without parental or court consent. Why would an abortionist who was willing to do this illegally suddenly risk greater exposure by performing the abortion out in the open rather than in the comfort of an office? Can you imagine ‘Let’s keep this hush hush Matilda. I’ll pretend I’m going on a smoke break, and you’ll lay on a piece of cardboard out there…’
Please.
When what happens instead is more along the lines of ‘I know you SAID you were certain that you were 12 weeks pregnant, but it turns out you’re closer to 14, which means I can’t do the abortion, BUT, if we just SAY right here that you’re only 12 weeks, we should be just fine.’

Illegal abortions happen ALL the time. It’s just that the paperwork is fudged. I should know, I had one (one illegal, several legal). They’re done in offices, not alleys.

I should also point out that neither of your scenarios is very honest. The first for the reasons I just cited, and the second one presupposes that an abortion facility is a ‘modern health care facility’ HA. Double HA! Are you kidding me? You know what I got for the pain? Tea. Effing TEA. Are you people kidding me? When I called and said I was still bleeding three days later, they said ‘Well, you can’t come back here.’ (that was for one of the legal ones!)

Unfortunately, I also had a D&C several months back. Of course the difference between an abortion and a D&C is that the baby is already dead in a D&C. Otherwise, procedurally, it should be the same. Except it’s not. D& C was done by a doctor, in a hospital, not a schmuck in a strip mall. I received anesthesia to numb the pain. I received ACTUAL after-care, whereas at the abortion facility ‘after-care’ meant that I sat in a chair (not even laying down, mind you), with my tea of course, for ten minutes. Ten whole minutes, wow! The D & C was performed by an Md, NOT a…well, I’m not sure what the guy was, but it wasn’t an Md. With the D & C I had an ultrasound beforehand so they could locate all of the tissue. With the abortion, it’s just scrape, scrape, scrape. At the abortion facility, I WATCHED THEM PUT MY BLOODY TISSUE IN A HAZARDOUS MATERIAL BUCKET. Seriously. What ‘modern health care facility’ allows a patient to see what was just pulled out of her?

So, I would say that since illegal abortions aren’t performed in alleys, and since most abortions are NOT done in ‘modern health care facilities’, I have trouble picking one false premise over another false premise.
 
Rwillenborg, thank you very much for sharing your experiences.
 
Zatzat said:
It’s hypothetical. It’s designed to make people think. …
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I think by limiting the choices in the hypothetical situation you set up, you demonstrate that abortion has very little to do with “choice”.
 
rwillenborg said:
i would wonder why my friend didn’t have her illegal abortion in the office (I would say doctor’s office, but people performing abortions are not required to be MDs) like everyone else who has illegal abortions. What would make it illegal would be if, say, the woman was under 16 and procured her abortion without parental or court consent. Why would an abortionist who was willing to do this illegally suddenly risk greater exposure by performing the abortion out in the open rather than in the comfort of an office? Can you imagine ‘Let’s keep this hush hush Matilda. I’ll pretend I’m going on a smoke break, and you’ll lay on a piece of cardboard out there…’
Please.
When what happens instead is more along the lines of ‘I know you SAID you were certain that you were 12 weeks pregnant, but it turns out you’re closer to 14, which means I can’t do the abortion, BUT, if we just SAY right here that you’re only 12 weeks, we should be just fine.’

Illegal abortions happen ALL the time. It’s just that the paperwork is fudged. I should know, I had one (one illegal, several legal). They’re done in offices, not alleys.

I should also point out that neither of your scenarios is very honest. The first for the reasons I just cited, and the second one presupposes that an abortion facility is a ‘modern health care facility’ HA. Double HA! Are you kidding me? You know what I got for the pain? Tea. Effing TEA. Are you people kidding me? When I called and said I was still bleeding three days later, they said ‘Well, you can’t come back here.’ (that was for one of the legal ones!)

Unfortunately, I also had a D&C several months back. Of course the difference between an abortion and a D&C is that the baby is already dead in a D&C. Otherwise, procedurally, it should be the same. Except it’s not. D& C was done by a doctor, in a hospital, not a schmuck in a strip mall. I received anesthesia to numb the pain. I received ACTUAL after-care, whereas at the abortion facility ‘after-care’ meant that I sat in a chair (not even laying down, mind you), with my tea of course, for ten minutes. Ten whole minutes, wow! The D & C was performed by an Md, NOT a…well, I’m not sure what the guy was, but it wasn’t an Md. With the D & C I had an ultrasound beforehand so they could locate all of the tissue. With the abortion, it’s just scrape, scrape, scrape. At the abortion facility, I WATCHED THEM PUT MY BLOODY TISSUE IN A HAZARDOUS MATERIAL BUCKET. Seriously. What ‘modern health care facility’ allows a patient to see what was just pulled out of her?

So, I would say that since illegal abortions aren’t performed in alleys, and since most abortions are NOT done in ‘modern health care facilities’, I have trouble picking one false premise over another false premise.
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My deepest sympathy to you.
It was most kind of you to create your post for CA.
 
nsper7 said:
And if the person procures a ‘back alley abortion’ and it kills them, then there is one less murderer in the world and it will serve as a warning to others.
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As a person who is pro-life, I have to STRONGLY disagree with that unChristian statement. Women who have had abortions are children of God whom He loves and should have the chance to repent and live the rest of their lives in accord with His will, so they can one day go to Heaven (which is what God wants for everyone).

–Jen
 
revert_jen said:
As a person who is pro-life, I have to STRONGLY disagree with that unChristian statement. Women who have had abortions are children of God whom He loves and should have the chance to repent and live the rest of their lives in accord with His will, so they can one day go to Heaven (which is what God wants for everyone).

–Jen
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Yes, jen, I agree.
 
Oh. So it doesn’t matter that a baby dies; so long as it is 'safe, legal and rare?"

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but when you meet (and you will) those innocent aborted souls in the hereafter, cradled in the arms of Our Savior, will you say, “Gee willikers, kids, I’m sorry, but you know, safe, legal, and rare was what was important. . .”
 
rwillenborg said:
So, I would say that since illegal abortions aren’t performed in alleys, and since most abortions are NOT done in ‘modern health care facilities’, I have trouble picking one false premise over another false premise.
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Amen. God bless you for sharing what have to have been painful memories with us.

–Jen
 
vz71 said:
A hypothetical scenario;

You have a friend and you just found out that she had taken a test in her math class.
The friend got none of the answers on the test right.

Upon hearing the news, would you rather hear that;

A). The friend cheated and still got the wrong answers.

B). The friend did not study, and got the wrong answers.

It is nonsensical to try to glean a favoritism of one sin over another, so why do you keep trying?
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Zatzat said:
This off topic. Create your own thread about your hypothetical scenario.
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Afraid not.
It is quite on topic.
I am highlighting the nonsense of trying to get people to favor one sin over another.

If you have issue with the hypothetical, perhaps you should examine how exactly yours is constructed.
 
Also agree with the others who point out that even though the mother is guilty (to some degree, God alone knows how much) in the death of her child, we should never hope for her death as a ‘punishment’ but always hope for her to repent and to be reconciled with God.

Hate the sin, love the sinner.
 
nsper7 said:
If you heard new that your friend committed murder, would you rather hear that:

A) The person shot an innocent person
B) The person knifed an innocent person
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Zatzat said:
Off topic, create your own thread.
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I see a pattern emerging here.

Anyone that highlights the illogic (as well as the ammunitions stored within) the question is off-topic.

Seems logic is off-topic.
 
One thing I’m not sure that the OP is getting-Abortion is totally wrong! It is the murder of someone else, not something else. Any way you look at it, from a moral standpoint, it’s horrific.

I understand that good people can disagree on this.
 
nsper7 said:
And if the person procures a ‘back alley abortion’ and it kills them, then there is one less murderer in the world and it will serve as a warning to others.
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What also serves as a warning to others is the MULTITUDE of women who now stand outside of abortion facilities carrying signs that read ‘I regret my abortion’ (that would include me. You would prefer that I had died during any one of my abortiosn. I can accept that. It would have certainly been deserved). And let’s be clear on something - for some it happens moments after, for others, it’s 30 years after. Either way, these people are powerful LIVING witnesses to the tragedy of abortion. If the woman died while having the abortion, I would guess her chances of making it to heaven would be slim, whereas women who are given time to THINK about their choice and come to regret it will certainly come to know God’s mercy.
Peace,
R
 
Rascalking said:
One thing I’m not sure that the OP is getting-Abortion is totally wrong!
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I am not so certain they missed this point.

It is also likely that they know full well that neither option is morally correct and are simply looking to make people betray their faith.
Either choice provided by the OP is a sin.
 
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