Abortion

[jmcrae]

I sometimes wonder if it would have made any difference to anyone if I was aborted in such an inchoate stage (like weeks after conception).

Of course it makes a difference. What kind of a difference is entirely up to you, of course. You can be a blessing to the world, or a curse.

Try to be a blessing.

 

[Hallelujahhh]

Not necessarily. Not all fetuses are viable.

Please elaborate on how one fetus can be “viable” and another is not “viable.” Please also research online how the GLOBAL scientific community has agreed that life begins at conception. Only the U.S. still lives in the Stone Age and still argues that a fetus magically obtains “human” status at an exact day - yeah, and the world is still flat.
For those who say life begins at 20 weeks:
So on week 19, 6 days, 23 hours and 59 seconds, the fetus is not a human. But one second later, on the 20th week to the dot, it is now a human? What a total joke. Finally, you don’t know the exact minute, down to the second, the child was conceived. So the fetus you are dousing in saline or slicing up could have been a “viable human being” (according to your “logic”) because you only killed it in the 19th week, but whoops! You did your math wrong and it is the 20th week. Now you’re a murderer. Hmm.

 

[Hallelujahhh]

And you are aware that the Church forbids these “precautions”… unless of course you mean abstinece, in which case you should have come out and said so.

Oh no! Please! Anything but abstinence! That means I have to control myself!

 

[Hallelujahhh]

Things you don’t know

1. When a person has a soul.
2. When a person can feel pain
3. When a person is a person.

What on earth? When is a person a person? Huh? When is a person NOT a person? That’s like saying, When is a dog not a dog? When is a tree not a tree? And ALL people have souls. Source: Bible. Flip through it.

 

[hasikelee]

I have always liked the saying, “You don’t shoot a rifle into the bushes that are moving.” An embryo floating around in a womb is akin to a rustling in the bushes. It could be the wind. . .or it could be a person in there.

So. . .you don’t shoot.

Just my opinion as an Intelligent Designer.

I have heard of a similar one…if you saw a coat lying in the road with maaaybe a person in the coat, would you just say, “Oh, we can’t determine if that is a person or not, so let’s run over it”

 

[john_ennis]

I sometimes wonder if it would have made any difference to anyone if I was aborted in such an inchoate stage (like weeks after conception). After some cogitation, I was unable to ascertain a definite answer to this question. Perhaps that is one reason abortion does not bother me (but there are other reasons though).

I feel depressed because I think it is unlikely for make to make a significant contribution to the world. Reading some information about a billionaire philanthropist (guess which one) recently exacerbated those sentiments.

However, I am interested in remaining alive now. I think all I can be is a spectator… I want to see the triumph of technology and ideas defeat poverty throughout the world. I have no reason to expect this goal to be accomplished in a short time frame and I expect it might take an entire century. On the other hand, I am afraid that natural resources will run out and we would not have the means to acheive such great progress. But I have some hope in humanity, so sentiments of suicide do not form an umbra in my mind.

This is fascinating. You seem to recognize the worth of people who suffer from poverty–people who by-and-large aren’t making a noticeable contribution to the world (not in the way the billionaire does), yet you don’t acknowledge your own worth.
Your worth is inherent to your existing; it doesn’t depend on how much you can do.

Peace

John

 

[Asuno]

Abortion is one of the greatest evils being perpetrated and perpetuated by this country, and I am convinced that the presence of legal abortion in this country is one of the reasons why we see such an increasing apathy and callousness among our citizens today, especially young people. Why should our children respect the lives of others when they see so clearly our own government not even respecting those yet to be born? The attitudes one observes among college and university students are ones those institutions themselves foster. May God forgive them for leading those who were His “little ones” astray. May God forgive us all for our failure to prevent this.

 

[hasikelee]

Things you don’t know

1. When a person has a soul.
2. When a person can feel pain
3. When a person is a person.

What on earth? When is a person a person? Huh? When is a person NOT a person? That’s like saying, When is a dog not a dog? When is a tree not a tree? And ALL people have souls. Source: Bible. Flip through it.

Hallelujahhh, secular sources use the term personhood to infer legal rights of citizenship upon humans.

This is seen during Hitler’s rule, when Jews were revoked of their personhood status as citizens in Germany and surrounding countries.

Many countries, and indeed for us, states, have differing legal statements of when citizenship and citizenship rights are applied to a human.

Thus, personhood is a popular debating topic for those who support abortion. It is a very arbitrary, irrelevant term. This would be similar to arguing about politics or religion and abortion. How could anyone be wrong with such subjective views?

I think that is why the person listed those three things.

Once you talk only about a living organism with human DNA, abortion becomes impossible to justify.

 

[revelations]

Abortion is murder period. It is pumped as a money making business. It makes money. Abortion doctors are making easy bills. Always pray for the aborted and the abortionists, they need the great mercy of God, as do we all.

All babies are formed by God himself, and meet Jesus before they are sent. There’s a passage somewhere in the bible about this… (“i knew you as a little one”, or something like that…) We are all given a task to do, given unique charisms, and we fit uniquely into God’s creation. We have aborted upwards of 40,000,000 babies last i heard…imagine what all those people were planned to have done?

Cure AIDS.
End wars.
Lead nations.
Heal the sick.
Future popes.
End famines.

I think it was Mother Theresa who said, “God sent us the man who was to cure the plague of AIDS…but we aborted him instead”

Abortion must be outlawed.

:twocents:

 

[Namesake]

Abortion is a disgusting procedure that is gravely immoral in every case and ought to be outlawed.

That is all.

I do not defend abortion. But outlawing abortion will not stop abortions.

 

[revelations]

No it will not stop it. Outlawing murder did not stop it. Right now abortion is state sponsored and plenty of funds go to PP, and other pro-abort organisations.

Outlawing abortion would drastically reduce it’s availability. Thereby reducing the # of abortions.

 

[Namesake]

No it will not stop it. Outlawing murder did not stop it. Right now abortion is state sponsored and plenty of funds go to PP, and other pro-abort organisations.

Outlawing abortion would drastically reduce it’s availability. Thereby reducing the # of abortions.

That is probably true, I agree. Again, I do not in any way support abortion. Outlawing abortion will make really badly done abortions more common.

I am very much anti abortion, but laws often do not accomplish what we want.

Abortion is a very difficult subject for me. I have a lot of compassion for people who really need an abortion. But I am very much opposed to abortion on demand.

 

[hasikelee]

I do not defend abortion. But outlawing abortion will not stop abortions.

I do not defend rape, but outlawing rape will not stop rape.

 

[Namesake]

I do not defend rape, but outlawing rape will not stop rape.

An incredibly good point.

 

[jmcrae]

I do not defend abortion. But outlawing abortion will not stop abortions.

No - but imaking it illegal will stop people from thinking that there’s nothing wrong with it, or that it’s a “responsible choice”.

 

[hasikelee]

An incredibly good point.

I’m glad you didn’t take my quip to be personal.

I also find myself leaning more towards a loving, educating and counseling form of protest against abortion. I believe that if we can reach women and share with them the joy and beauty of a newly formed child, abortions will end on their own.

But, the more I study history and legal/court systems, the more I find it important to keep abreast of that in the abortion debate as well. Every major form of genocide and mass extermination began with the systematic beginning of a legal apparatus aimed at stripping a particular segment of society from their right to life “personhood” and human dignity. It always comes first.

Seeing as how America is at that point, I find myself wondering how we can change our “future” history by strongly opposing on a legal standpoint, before it continues to the next level.

 

[kittery]

The women’s movement made a huge mistake with this issue - they presented the idea of abortion as a way to equal out the ‘we can get pregnant and he can’t’ issue of male and female. What we did was we declared, loud and long, that we wanted the same kind of ‘freedom’ as immoral men…and that is not freedom, that is license.

Beautifully said! I wish men would speak out against abortion louder so that the volume would be up on what a crime is being done against their rights. The baby does not belong to just the woman.

Abortion haunts women. There is no freedom in that, either. She will likely suffer in her heart, all of her days.

 

[RandA]

I sometimes wonder if it would have made any difference to anyone if I was aborted in such an inchoate stage (like weeks after conception). After some cogitation, I was unable to ascertain a definite answer to this question. Perhaps that is one reason abortion does not bother me (but there are other reasons though).

I feel depressed because I think it is unlikely for make to make a significant contribution to the world. Reading some information about a billionaire philanthropist (guess which one) recently exacerbated those sentiments.

However, I am interested in remaining alive now. I think all I can be is a spectator… I want to see the triumph of technology and ideas defeat poverty throughout the world. I have no reason to expect this goal to be accomplished in a short time frame and I expect it might take an entire century. On the other hand, I am afraid that natural resources will run out and we would not have the means to acheive such great progress. But I have some hope in humanity, so sentiments of suicide do not form an umbra in my mind.

I’m not trying to be flippant, but it does seem to be a rather sad way to look at the world. I mean, very few of us can effect the type of change that a billionaire philanthropist can… however, that does not mean that we have no meaning or purpose! Especially to family members, close friends, colleagues, etc. The first thing I thought when I read this post was “Didn’t you ever see “It’s a Wonderful Life” ?”

 

[Dale_M]

Abortion is a very difficult subject for me. I have a lot of compassion for people who really need an abortion. But I am very much opposed to abortion on demand.

I understand these sentiments and agree with you. It would be wise to do more than advocate for the banning of abortion. A strategy which tries to decrease demand, as well as decrease supply, would probably yield best results. Policies such as Haskilee advocated which would change attitudes is one example of trying to decrease demand. Another approach would increase access to medical care and provide financial support for pregnant so that they didn’t feel overwhelmed.

 

[East_and_West]

I’m sorry if this has been addressed ad nauseam. Is abortion gravely immoral if committed by a non-Catholic who neither believes nor fully understands Faith?

God Bless

Jon

It is immoral even from the view point of natural law. Since knowledge of the natural law does not require adherence to Catholic faith, it is still gravely immoral for a non-Catholic.