About Quran

[Montalban]

Hi

No ,sir, Buddha believed in one GodAllahYHWH.

If you can afford a little research, kindly access and read:

Name of the Book: Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth- Part-2, Chapter on Buddhism.
end of debate, hey? Your prophet says something and no matter what, it’s true.

That’s something you’ve in common with Islam, monologue.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Once again, all of my questions are ignores. It frustrates him that we don’t accept his claims without question.

The reason he can’t answer any of the questions is because his whole religion is a falsehood.

That’s something you’ve in common with Islam, monologue.

He’s not interested in what we say or believe. His only aim is to post information about Islam.

He doesn’t want to debate with us. He wants to spread his so-called ‘truth’.

 

[Montalban]

Once again, all of my questions are ignores. It frustrates him that we don’t accept his claims without question.

The reason he can’t answer any of the questions is because his whole religion is a falsehood.

He’s not interested in what we say or believe. His only aim is to post information about Islam.

He doesn’t want to debate with us. He wants to spread his so-called ‘truth’.

This seems to be the case, but what I don’t ‘get’ is what a Moslem or such expects to gain by avoiding questions, side-stepping, opening up other debates etc. I mean, it’s a really weird thing to do, like to go public saying “My religion makes me unable to tell the truth”.

 

[Montalban]

Just bumping this forward to give paarsurrey a chance to respond

 

[dolphinlove]

Paarsurrey,
What is faith to you?
Is faith something you have to have proof of?

 

[paarsurrey]

We continue knowing important information about Quran from the treatise “INTRODUCTION T O THE STUDY OF THE HOLY QURAN” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the son of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. This he wrote when English translation of Quran was being launched by Ahmadia- a peaceful community in Islam.
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Please read my previous post on this thread:

"The Founders of religions did not possess those
powers and accomplishments which ordinarily make for
successful leadership. They knew little or nothing of the arts
or culture of their time. Yet what each taught turned out to
be something in advance of his time, something pertinent and
seasonable. By adopting this teaching a people attained to a
great height in civilization and culture, and retained the glory
for many centuries.

A true religious Teacher makes this
possible. Yet it is inconceivable that a person innocent of
ordinary accomplishments, as soon as he begins to lie about
God, should come to have such tremendous powers that his
teaching dominates all other teachings current in his time.
Such a development is impossible without the help of a powerful
God.

REVEALED TEACHINGS ALWAYS AGAINST CURRENT IDEAS
Fourthly, when we consider what these Founders of religions
taught, we find that it has always been contrary to all contemporary trends. If this teaching had been in line with the
tendencies of their times, it could be said that these Teachers
only gave expression to those tendencies. Instead, what they
taught was very different from anything they found current.
A terrible controversy ensued and it seemed as though the
country had been set ablaze. Yet those who chose to deny
and controvert the teaching were ultimately themselves com-
pelled to submit to it.

This also proves that these Teachers
were not a product of their times, but were Teachers, Reformers
and Prophets in the sense in which they claimed to be.

In the time of Moses, how novel must have seemed his
teaching about One God. When Jesus confronted in his time
a materialism born of the worldliness of the Jews and of the
vicious influence of Rome, how peculiar must have appeared
his stress on the spirit ? How out of place must have been his
Message of forgiveness to a people who trembled under the
tyranny of Roman soldiers, groaning all the while for legitimate
vengeance ?

How out of time must have appeared Krishna
who taught war, on the one hand, and, on the other, a withdrawal from the material world in order to cultivate the spirit.
The Zoroastrian teaching, embracing all aspects of human life,
must also have come as a shock to the licentiousness of that
time.

The Holy Prophet appeared in Arabia and addressed
himself to Jews and Christians. How strange it must have
appeared to those who believed that there was to be no teaching
outside their own ! Then he taught the Meccan idolaters
that God was One, and that all men were equal. How peculiar
must his teaching have seemed to a people who believed
intensely in the superiority of their own race !

T o teach
hardened drunkards and gamblers the evils of their ways, to
criticize almost everything they believed or did, to give them
a new teaching and then to succeed seems impossible. It is
like being able to swim up-stream against a current rushing with
tremendous force. It is utterly beyond human capacity.

Fifthly, the Founders of religions have all shown Signs and
miracles. Every one of them announced at the outset that his
teaching would prevail and that those who might seek to destroy
it would themselves be destroyed. They were without means
and ill-equipped. Their teachings were contrary to firmly-
established beliefs and habits of thinking and provoked the
fiercest opposition of their people. Yet they succeeded, and
what they had foretold came to pass.

Why were their pro-
phecies and their promises fulfilled ? No doubt there have
been others, generals and dictators, who have attained to
apparently similar success. But it is not success which is in
point. It is success which is foretold, which is attributed to
God from the beginning, success on which is staked the
Prophet’s whole moral reputation and which is achieved in
spite of the worst opposition.

Napoleon, Hitler and Chingiz
Khan rose high from humble positions. But they did not set
themselves against any thought-current of their time. Nor
did they declare that God had promised them victory in spite
of opposition. Nor did they have to confront any wide-spread
opposition. The ends they set out to achieve were adored by
most of their contemporaries, who perhaps proposed different
methods but not different ends. If they suffered defeat,
they lost nothing. They still stood high in their peoples’
esteem, and feared nothing."
Unquote

Thanks

 

[dolphinlove]

We continue knowing important information about Quran from the treatise “INTRODUCTION T O THE STUDY OF THE HOLY QURAN” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the son of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. This he wrote when English translation of Quran was being launched by Ahmadia- a peaceful community in Islam.
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Please read my previous post on this thread:

"The Founders of religions did not possess those
powers and accomplishments which ordinarily make for
successful leadership. They knew little or nothing of the arts
or culture of their time. Yet what each taught turned out to
be something in advance of his time, something pertinent and
seasonable. By adopting this teaching a people attained to a
great height in civilization and culture, and retained the glory
for many centuries.

A true religious Teacher makes this
possible. Yet it is inconceivable that a person innocent of
ordinary accomplishments, as soon as he begins to lie about
God, should come to have such tremendous powers that his
teaching dominates all other teachings current in his time.
Such a development is impossible without the help of a powerful
God.

REVEALED TEACHINGS ALWAYS AGAINST CURRENT IDEAS
Fourthly, when we consider what these Founders of religions
taught, we find that it has always been contrary to all contemporary trends. If this teaching had been in line with the
tendencies of their times, it could be said that these Teachers
only gave expression to those tendencies. Instead, what they
taught was very different from anything they found current.
A terrible controversy ensued and it seemed as though the
country had been set ablaze. Yet those who chose to deny
and controvert the teaching were ultimately themselves com-
pelled to submit to it.

This also proves that these Teachers
were not a product of their times, but were Teachers, Reformers
and Prophets in the sense in which they claimed to be.

In the time of Moses, how novel must have seemed his
teaching about One God. When Jesus confronted in his time
a materialism born of the worldliness of the Jews and of the
vicious influence of Rome, how peculiar must have appeared
his stress on the spirit ? How out of place must have been his
Message of forgiveness to a people who trembled under the
tyranny of Roman soldiers, groaning all the while for legitimate
vengeance ?

How out of time must have appeared Krishna
who taught war, on the one hand, and, on the other, a withdrawal from the material world in order to cultivate the spirit.
The Zoroastrian teaching, embracing all aspects of human life,
must also have come as a shock to the licentiousness of that
time.

The Holy Prophet appeared in Arabia and addressed
himself to Jews and Christians. How strange it must have
appeared to those who believed that there was to be no teaching
outside their own ! Then he taught the Meccan idolaters
that God was One, and that all men were equal. How peculiar
must his teaching have seemed to a people who believed
intensely in the superiority of their own race !

T o teach
hardened drunkards and gamblers the evils of their ways, to
criticize almost everything they believed or did, to give them
a new teaching and then to succeed seems impossible. It is
like being able to swim up-stream against a current rushing with
tremendous force. It is utterly beyond human capacity.

Fifthly, the Founders of religions have all shown Signs and
miracles. Every one of them announced at the outset that his
teaching would prevail and that those who might seek to destroy
it would themselves be destroyed. They were without means
and ill-equipped. Their teachings were contrary to firmly-
established beliefs and habits of thinking and provoked the
fiercest opposition of their people. Yet they succeeded, and
what they had foretold came to pass.

Why were their pro-
phecies and their promises fulfilled ? No doubt there have
been others, generals and dictators, who have attained to
apparently similar success. But it is not success which is in
point. It is success which is foretold, which is attributed to
God from the beginning, success on which is staked the
Prophet’s whole moral reputation and which is achieved in
spite of the worst opposition.

Napoleon, Hitler and Chingiz
Khan rose high from humble positions. But they did not set
themselves against any thought-current of their time. Nor
did they declare that God had promised them victory in spite
of opposition. Nor did they have to confront any wide-spread
opposition. The ends they set out to achieve were adored by
most of their contemporaries, who perhaps proposed different
methods but not different ends. If they suffered defeat,
they lost nothing. They still stood high in their peoples’
esteem, and feared nothing."
Unquote

Thanks

:yawn:

 

[Montalban]

Thanks

Thanks for the monologue

 

[Verisimilitude]

Thanks for the monologue

:doh2:

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey, you continue your dishonest approach to this thread.

You now wish to divert this debate to one of how Chrisitans approach the Bible.

Start another thread, and I will draw your attention to the fact that Greek was the lingua franca of the day… as English is in our own day - and therefore you defeat your own argument by being able to converse in a different langauge to your own - obviously able to account for translation when you learnt it.

Hi

What Jesus told had not been preserved by his disciples who deserted him in the hour of need and that speaks of their character in volumes, and if they wrote anything that has doubtful credence, nothing short of phantom ideas.

Otherwise, Moses, Jesus, Krishna,Abraham, David, Jonah, Krishna, Cyrus ,Zoroaster, Muhammad said the same things, so the common factor lifts the barrier on language restraint, and the absolute message is received, that is understandable and believable.

Thanks

I just want to trigger the inner research engine in you to get activated, the rest GodAllahYHWH would look after; and you know truth would ultimately prevail. Don’t get converted, remain a firm and steadfast Catholic, but it does not harm a Catholic to do a little research

 

[Montalban]

Hi

What Jesus told had not been preserved by his disciples who deserted him in the hour of need and that speaks of their character in volumes, and if they wrote anything that has doubtful credence, nothing short of phantom ideas.

Otherwise, Moses, Jesus, Krishna,Abraham, David, Jonah, Krishna, Cyrus ,Zoroaster, Muhammad said the same things, so the common factor lifts the barrier on language restraint, and the absolute message is received, that is understandable and believable.

Thanks

I just want to trigger the inner research engine in you to get activated, the rest GodAllahYHWH would look after; and you know truth would ultimately prevail. Don’t get converted, remain a firm and steadfast Catholic, but it does not harm a Catholic to do a little research

Thanks for continuing to demonstrate my point

I’m not Catholic, the fact I’ve pointed this out and you simply have your little collection of replies that you post without regard to what is said, or in this case who is saying it shows that your version of Islam also has no place for discussion.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Thanks for continuing to demonstrate my point

I’m not Catholic, the fact I’ve pointed this out and you simply have your little collection of replies that you post without regard to what is said, or in this case who is saying it shows that your version of Islam also has no place for discussion.

Yes, it seems that our friend is convinced that a pile of bricks an edifice doth make.

 

[aj830]

What Jesus told had not been preserved by his disciples who deserted him in the hour of need and that speaks of their character in volumes, and if they wrote anything that has doubtful credence, nothing short of phantom ideas.

And your proof for this is? It is one thing to thing to say they wrote “phantom ideas” but another to back it up with evidence. Why should we believe documents that showed up over 500 years after Jesus as opposed to people that actually were with him?

 

[Montalban]

And your proof for this is? It is one thing to thing to say they wrote “phantom ideas” but another to back it up with evidence. Why should we believe documents that showed up over 500 years after Jesus as opposed to people that actually were with him?

This goes back to Islamic circular logic.

You learn something new. When paarsurrey came to this thread I’d never heard of his religion. After he stated it, I looked around the net and saw that many Moslems don’t consider it to be Islamic.

But paarsurrey adheres to the Moslem method of debating; tu quoque fallacy, and swathes of monologue - that doesn’t answer people’s questions, and avoiding answering people’s questions.

The belief by paarsurrey that one should just set off one’s beliefs and that this is some kind of self-evident truth is very Islamic.

 

[paarsurrey]

You learn something new. When paarsurrey came to this thread I’d never heard of his religion. After he stated it, I looked around the net and saw that many Moslems don’t consider it to be Islamic.

Hi

May GodAllahYHWH bless one Protestant (I know only one here) and the rest Catholic friends (excepting those who are neither of the above two faiths; yet they are also included in the blessings of GodAllahYHWH).!

Thanks

I think ordinarily the Catholics (and of course one Protestant also) are not used to applying reason by themselves to obtain true meaning of the scriptures, as they have left this task to be done by the Clergy, they just follow them blindly. If we are free and have GodAllahYHWH as the Supreme-Guide, we must flex our brain muscles (for the spiritual purpose as we use for our material worldly gains) to that end, and the scriptures open up before us, with the true meaning.

 

[Montalban]

Hi

May GodAllahYHWH bless one Protestant (I know only one here) and the rest Catholic friends (excepting those who are neither of the above two faiths; yet they are also included in the blessings of GodAllahYHWH).!

Thanks

I think ordinarily the Catholics (and of course one Protestant also) are not used to applying reason by themselves to obtain true meaning of the scriptures, as they have left this task to be done by the Clergy, they just follow them blindly. If we are free and have GodAllahYHWH as the Supreme-Guide, we must flex our brain muscles (for the spiritual purpose as we use for our material worldly gains) to that end, and the scriptures open up before us, with the true meaning.

As I’m neither Catholic nor Protestant your words have little relevance to me

 

[paarsurrey]

As I’m neither Catholic nor Protestant your words have little relevance to me

Hi

May GodAllahYHWH bless one Orthodox (I know only one here) and the rest Catholic friends (excepting those who are neither of the above two faiths; yet they are also included in the blessings of GodAllahYHWH).!

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

We continue knowing important information about Quran from the treatise “INTRODUCTION T O THE STUDY OF THE HOLY QURAN” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the son of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. This he wrote when English translation of Quran was being launched by Ahmadia- a peaceful community in Islam.
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Please read my previous post on this thread:

But it was different with Moses,
Jesus, Krishna, Zoroaster and the Prophet of Islam. True,
they did not fail. But if they had, they would have lost every-
thing. They would not have been proclaimed as heroes, but
would have been condemned as pretenders and intriguers.
History would have taken scant notice of them and lasting
disrepute would have been their reward. Between them and
men like Napoleon or Hitler, therefore, there is a world of
difference–the same difference as there is between their res-
pective successes.

There are not many people who have
regard or reverence for Napoleon, Hitler or Chingiz Khan.
Some regard them as heroes and are completely carried away
by their deeds. But can they command true loyalty or obedi-
ence ? Loyalty and obedience are given only to religious
Teachers, such as Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Zoroaster and the
Holy Prophet of Islam.

Many millions of human beings
throughout the ages have done what these Teachers bade them
do. Many millions have denied themselves what these
Teachers forbade. Their smallest thoughts, words, and deeds
have been subject to what they were taught by their Masters.
Do national heroes command even one iota of the loyalty and
submission accorded to these Teachers ? These Teachers,
therefore, were from God and what they taught was taught
by God.

WHY TEACHINGS OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS DIFFER

But the question is: If these Teachers were all from God, why
did their teachings differ so much one from another ? Would
God teach different things at different times ? Even ordinary
mortals try to be consistent and teach the same thing at different
times. The answer to this question is that when conditions
remain the same, it would be absurd to issue different directions.

But when conditions change, variation of teaching is of the
essence of wisdom. In the time of the Prophet Adam, it seems,
human beings lived together in one part of the world ; one teach-
ing, therefore, was enough for them. Possibly even up to
Noah’s time they continued to live in this way. According to
the Bible, human tribes continued to live together in one part
of the world up to Babylonian times. The Bible is not a book
of history. But there is evidence which supports the Biblical
account.

Among all nations of the world, even among savages in-
habiting lonely islands, we find traces of the story of Noah’s
Flood. It seems unlikely that the whole of the world was first
engulfed in a universal deluge, and then knowledge of it spread
in all parts of the world. I t seems more likely that in one part
of the world there was a deluge which resulted in the dispersion
of the population in different directions. If it is not proved
that the world was one up to Babylonian times, history lends
support to the view that it was one up to Noah’s time.

After Noah’s time the population dispersed into different countries.
'I’he influence of Noah’s teaching began to decline, because
means of communication were so poor. A Teacher in one
country could not communicate his Message to other countries.
It was but appropriate then that God should have sent a
Prophet to each country, so that no country should be without
His guidance.

This made for division between religion and
religion, because the human mind had not yet fully developed.
As human intellect and understanding lacked the development
to which they were to attain later, every country had a teaching
sent to it appropriate to the level of development to which it
had attained.

ISLAM TEACHES ONENESS OF GOD AND OF HUMANITY

But when the human race began to advance, and more and
more countries began to be inhabited, and distances between
them began to be annihilated, and means of communication
began to improve, the human mind began to appreciate the
need of a universal teaching, covering all the different situations
of man. Through mutual contact men came to have insight
into the fundamental oneness of the human race and the One-
ness of their Creator and Guide.

Then in the desert of Arabia, God sent His final Message to mankind through the Holy
Prophet of Islam. No wonder, this Message begins by praising
God, the Lord of the worlds. I t speaks of God to Whom all
manner of praise is due, Who sends His sustenance to all
peoples and all countries, and in an equitable measure. He is
not partial to any country or any people. Therefore the
Message which begins thus inevitably ends by invoking the
Lord of all mankind, their King and their God.
Unquote

Thanks

 

[Montalban]

Hi

We continue knowing important …

…spam

 

[dolphinlove]

Paars,
Do you think anyone is actually reading what your putting on here?
I dont mean to be rude, but if you did a pole, i think i can count the people on one hand…