M
Montalban
Guest
Yeah, this and other threads.
How to win converts to Isalm
“This is what you must believe…”
“I won’t answer your questions…”
“Repeat: This is what you must believe…”
- Status
How to win converts to Isalm
“This is what you must believe…”
“I won’t answer your questions…”
“Repeat: This is what you must believe…”
R
RobHom
Guest
Actually, uh, no…I just stumbled over this one.
What you must believe is that you have embarked on a mission of abject “futility”.
M
Montalban
Guest
Not really. Although I directly address paarsurrey -and I remain hopeful that this person will conduct debate - there’s other readers out there who I hope will see that by his tactics paarsurrey shows that his faith is devoid of any reason.
The way people defend Islam here, in fact serves as just as good an argument against it.
paarsurrey is a prime case. Refusal to address questions, relying on spam - centred on ‘just-so’ statements
S
Sura10_Ayat94
Guest
For a historical view of the Qur’an (visit)
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/Legends/index.htm
answering-islam.org/Books/Tisdall/Sources/index.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/Legends/index.htm
answering-islam.org/Books/Tisdall/Sources/index.htm
M
Montalban
Guest
The Koran has their god changing his mind - by abrogating verses
D
dolphinlove
Guest
[SIGN]And wests tigers will win this years grand final[/SIGN]
M
Montalban
Guest
Eels destroy Broncs to take fifth spot
The Parramatta Eels devastated the Brisbane Broncos 68-22 in their final round NRL clash at Parramatta Stadium on Sunday, claiming fifth spot on the ladder.
The Eels will now face the New Zealand Warriors in Auckland on Friday night, while the Broncos finish the season in eighth spot and will travel to Melbourne to face the minor premiers next weekend.
Parramatta played a phenomenal game, running in 13 tries to the Broncos’ four.
“We came out with one goal and that was just to complete our sets and I think we did that pretty well in that first half,” Eels half-back Tim Smith told ABC Grandstand.
"I think our forwards were our main thing for us - the outside backs get all the glory but I think you’ve got to look at those forwards, they’ve been doing it week in, week out for the last 25 games.
"They’re (Brisbane) a quality side and we knew we were going to be in for a tough one.
"To our credit I think we stuck through the grind, we’re just really happy to get those two points.
“But we’ve got to go over to New Zealand next week, that’s going to be a tough one.”
Parramatta winger Krisnan Inu put in a stellar performance, racking up 26 individual points, including three tries and seven conversions.
Team-mates Timana Tahu, Jarryd Hayne, Ian Hindmarsh and Feleti Mateo also backed up with two tries apiece.
The Eels surged to a 34-16 lead at half-time, despite some early shaky defence.
The Broncos’ Steve Michaels crossed in the left corner for the visitors in the ninth minute and moments later Justin Hodges ran out of dummy half to score under the black dot. Corey Parker went on to kick the conversion.
Hodges was in the thick of it again only minutes later when he collected a grubber kick and made his way over again.
Parker added the extra two, and it was suddenly 16-6 to the visitors after 17 minutes.
But the Eels seemingly kicked themselves into gear, scoring the next five tries for the half and going on to dominate the rest of the game.
Parramatta 68 (K Inu 3, I Hindmarsh 2, J Hayne 2, T Tahu 2, F Mateo 2, E Grothe, T Smith tries; K Inu 7, T Smith conversions)
Brisbane 22 (S Michaels, J Hodges 2, B Thorn tries; C Parker 3 conversions).
abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/02/2021723.htm
D
dolphinlove
Guest
yeah yeah i know, i watched some of it…
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
We continue knowing important information about Quran from the treatise “INTRODUCTION T O THE STUDY OF THE HOLY QURAN” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the son of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. This he wrote when English translation of Quran was being launched by Ahmadia- a peaceful community in Islam.
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Please read my previous post on this thread:
The Prophet who brought this Message was a Second Adam. As in the
time of the First Adam there was one revelation and one
people, so in the time of this Second Adam the world again
had one revelation and became one people. If, therefore,
this world has been created by One God, and if God is equally
interested in all peoples and all countries, it is imperative
that ultimately these different peoples and different religious
traditions should unite in one belief and one outlook.
If the Quran had not come, the spiritual purpose for which
mankind had been created would have been frustrated. If
the world cannot he assembled around one spiritual centre,
can we ever come to appreciate the Oneness of our Creator ?
A river has many tributaries but at last it becomes one broad
stream and it is then that its might and beauty manifest them-
selves. The Messages which Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Zoroaster
and other Prophets brought to different parts of the world are
like tributaries which arise before a mighty river shapes its
course.
They were all good and wholesome. But it was
necessary that they should flow at last into one river, and
demonstrate the Oneness of God and promote the one ultimate
purpose for which mankind had been created. If the Quran
does not fulfil this purpose, where is the teaching which does ?
Not the Bible, because the Bible talks only of the God of Israel.
Nor Zoroaster’s, because Zoroaster conveys the light of God
exclusively to the Iranian people. Nor the Vedas, because the
Rishis prescribe the penalty of casting molten lead into the ears
of Shudras–India’s original inhabitants – who are bold enough
to listen to the Vedic recitation. Nor does the Buddha fulfil
this great purpose, because though the faith of the Buddha
spread in China after his death, yet his o w nvision never
travelled beyond the confines of India. Nor does the teaching
of Jesus fulfil this purpose.
JESUS NOT A UNIVERSAL TEACHER
Jesus says :
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.
I amnot come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto
you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in
no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled (Matthew 5 : 17 -
18).
What Moses and the earlier Prophets have taught in this
respect, we have described already. Christian missionaries
have gone to all parts of the world, but Jesus himself had no
such plan. The question is not what Christian believers are
trying to do. The question is, what was the intention of
Jesus himself ? What was the design of God Who sent Jesus ?
This nobody can express better than Jesus himself and Jesus
said clearly :
“I am not sent hut unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”
(Matthew 15 : 24).
“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost”
(Matthew I8 : I I) .
The teaching of Jesus, therefore, is only for Israel, not for
others. It is said that Jesus exhorted his followers to go to other
people :
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
(Matthew 28 : 19).
But to argue from this that Jesus had commanded his
followers to take his Message to peoples other than Israel is
not correct. I t means only this that the followers of Jesus were
commanded by him to preach his Message to all the tribes of
Israel and not to all nations and peoples as such.
Jesus speaks in clear terms :
Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in
the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of
his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the
twelve tribes of Israel (Matthew 19 : 28).
“I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”
(Matthew 15 : 24).
“It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to
dogs” (Matthew 15 : 26).
Unquote
Thanks
We continue knowing important information about Quran from the treatise “INTRODUCTION T O THE STUDY OF THE HOLY QURAN” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the son of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. This he wrote when English translation of Quran was being launched by Ahmadia- a peaceful community in Islam.
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Please read my previous post on this thread:
The Prophet who brought this Message was a Second Adam. As in the
time of the First Adam there was one revelation and one
people, so in the time of this Second Adam the world again
had one revelation and became one people. If, therefore,
this world has been created by One God, and if God is equally
interested in all peoples and all countries, it is imperative
that ultimately these different peoples and different religious
traditions should unite in one belief and one outlook.
If the Quran had not come, the spiritual purpose for which
mankind had been created would have been frustrated. If
the world cannot he assembled around one spiritual centre,
can we ever come to appreciate the Oneness of our Creator ?
A river has many tributaries but at last it becomes one broad
stream and it is then that its might and beauty manifest them-
selves. The Messages which Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Zoroaster
and other Prophets brought to different parts of the world are
like tributaries which arise before a mighty river shapes its
course.
They were all good and wholesome. But it was
necessary that they should flow at last into one river, and
demonstrate the Oneness of God and promote the one ultimate
purpose for which mankind had been created. If the Quran
does not fulfil this purpose, where is the teaching which does ?
Not the Bible, because the Bible talks only of the God of Israel.
Nor Zoroaster’s, because Zoroaster conveys the light of God
exclusively to the Iranian people. Nor the Vedas, because the
Rishis prescribe the penalty of casting molten lead into the ears
of Shudras–India’s original inhabitants – who are bold enough
to listen to the Vedic recitation. Nor does the Buddha fulfil
this great purpose, because though the faith of the Buddha
spread in China after his death, yet his o w nvision never
travelled beyond the confines of India. Nor does the teaching
of Jesus fulfil this purpose.
JESUS NOT A UNIVERSAL TEACHER
Jesus says :
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.
I amnot come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto
you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in
no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled (Matthew 5 : 17 -
18).
What Moses and the earlier Prophets have taught in this
respect, we have described already. Christian missionaries
have gone to all parts of the world, but Jesus himself had no
such plan. The question is not what Christian believers are
trying to do. The question is, what was the intention of
Jesus himself ? What was the design of God Who sent Jesus ?
This nobody can express better than Jesus himself and Jesus
said clearly :
“I am not sent hut unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”
(Matthew 15 : 24).
“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost”
(Matthew I8 : I I) .
The teaching of Jesus, therefore, is only for Israel, not for
others. It is said that Jesus exhorted his followers to go to other
people :
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
(Matthew 28 : 19).
But to argue from this that Jesus had commanded his
followers to take his Message to peoples other than Israel is
not correct. I t means only this that the followers of Jesus were
commanded by him to preach his Message to all the tribes of
Israel and not to all nations and peoples as such.
Jesus speaks in clear terms :
Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in
the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of
his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the
twelve tribes of Israel (Matthew 19 : 28).
“I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”
(Matthew 15 : 24).
“It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to
dogs” (Matthew 15 : 26).
Unquote
Thanks
M
Montalban
Guest
Sorry…
[SIGN]Off-topic[/SIGN]
but…
Eels end Bulldogs’ season
Parramatta booked a date with Melbourne in the NRL preliminary finals after defeating the Bulldogs 25-6 in their semi-final at Sydney’s Olympic stadium on Saturday evening.
The Eels prevailed in a contest marred by a litany of wasted attacking chances, but their four tries were enough to end the Bulldogs’ season in the second week of the final.
The Bulldogs’ cause was not aided by a right forearm injury sustained by start backrower Sonny Bill Williams, which consigned the New Zealand international to the sideline in the opening half.
The Eels scored tries through Mark Riddell, Eric Grothe Timana Tahu - whose farewell to rugby league will be put on hold for at least one more week - and Jarryd Hayne.
Krisnan Inu made all four conversions and Brett Finch added a field goal.
The Bulldogs got on the scoreboard through a try to Matt Utai and a conversion from Hazem El Masri.
It was the Eels who enjoyed the early running in attack but a turnover deep inside the Bulldogs’ half led to to the opening try scored by Utai in the sixth minute.
Williams made a midfield break before offloading to Luke Patten, who subsequently found a rampaging Andrew Ryan in support.
The movement seemed to die when Ryan passed to Willie Tonga, who slipped to the ground, but the former Australian international was able to get the ball away to Utai for a try in the left-hand corner.
El Masri landed the conversion from the sideline, but the Bulldogs suffered a blow midway through the half when Williams left the field with his injury.
Williams’ absence possibly buoyed the spirits of the Eels, who found a response in the 20th minute when Riddell touched down on a grubber that was poorly fielded by the Bulldogs close to the tryline.
Inu added the extras and he did so again in the 34th minute to establish the 12-6 half-time lead following the try to Grothe, who benefited from an overlap on the last tackle to score down the right flank.
The second half was littered with missed opportunities from both sides, with the Bulldogs going close early after the break when Brent Sherwin was held up over the tryline.
The wasted chance was costly, as the Eels were able to put themselves more than a converted try ahead when Finch slotted a field goal against the run of play in the 52nd minute.
They took their time to ice the victory, eventually doing so in the 74th minute when Tahu pounced on spilt ball from Reni Maitua before running 60 metres to score the third and final Eels’ try.
Hayne simply added to the Bulldogs’ heartbreak when he crossed out wide in the final minute of play.
Parramatta 25 (M Riddell, E Grothe, T Tahu, J Hayne tries; K Inu 4 conversions; B Finch field goal)
Bulldogs 6 (M Utai try; H El Masri conversion)
abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/15/2033916.htm
A
Abraxsis
Guest
There is nothing to really learn about the Koran.
It is Islams most holy book.
Muslims claim it is without error and from God given to Mohammed.
It says almost nothing meaningful, its full of mumbo jumbo, the hadiths say more.
It is supposedly the basis of all Islam, which I find interesting since Muslims use hadiths to make theological points all the time and hardly ever refer to the Koran.
.
It is Islams most holy book.
Muslims claim it is without error and from God given to Mohammed.
It says almost nothing meaningful, its full of mumbo jumbo, the hadiths say more.
It is supposedly the basis of all Islam, which I find interesting since Muslims use hadiths to make theological points all the time and hardly ever refer to the Koran.
.
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Next week when Melbourne defeats the eels, ill dedicate a whole thread to it.
M
Montalban
Guest
[SIGN]Boo![/SIGN]Next week when Melbourne defeats the eels, ill dedicate a whole thread to it.
M
Montalban
Guest
It’s full of errors. Worse still is Muhammed’s hands all over it - given it’s not supposed to be his work, but their gods.
A
Abraxsis
Guest
I didnt say it is without error I know it has mistakes, I said Muslims claim it is without error.
M
Montalban
Guest
I’m not arguing against you!
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
We continue knowing important information about Quran from the treatise “INTRODUCTION T O THE STUDY OF THE HOLY QURAN” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the son of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. This he wrote when English translation of Quran was being launched by Ahmadia- a peaceful community in Islam.
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Please read my previous post on this thread:
Again we read:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,
Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the
Samaritans enter ye not : but go rather to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel (Matthew 10 : 5-6).
Nobody should imagine that the idea here is that Christian
preachers should first go to Israelite towns, then to others.
For, to go to the lost sheep of Israel does not mean only to visit
their towns, but to convert them to Christianity.
The idea, therefore, is that until the Israelites have become Christian, no attention is to be paid to others. Jesus makes it quite clear that the task of preaching to Israel and converting them will not be completed until his Second Coming. Thus we read :
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another :
for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities
of Israel, till the Son of man be come (Matthew 10 : 23).
From this it is clear that Matthew 28 : 19 requires Christian
preachers to establish Christianity in the towns of Israel and
not merely to visit those towns. It is made quite clear that this
duty of preaching to the Israelites will not be over until the
Second Coming. I n preaching to others, therefore, while the
Second Coming of Jesus had yet to take place, Christian
preachers are acting against the teaching of Jesus.
The apostles also regard it as incorrect to preach the Gospel
to non-Israelites. Thus we read :
Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution
that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus,
and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews
only (Acts I I : 19).
Similarly, when the apostles heard that Peter in one place
had preached the Gospel to non-Israelites, they were annoyed :
And when Peter was come to Jerusalem, they that were of the
circumcision contended with him, saying, Thou wentest into
men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them (Acts I I : 2-3).
Before the Holy Prophet of Islam, therefore, nobody
addressed a Message to the whole of mankind; before the Quran,
no book addressed itself to the whole of humanity. It is the
Holy Prophet who declared :
“Say, 0 mankind ! truly I am a Messenger to you all from
Allah” (7 : 159).
The revelation of the Quran, therefore, was meant to remove
those differences and divisions which had come to pass between
religion and religion and people and people, and which had
first arisen out of the inevitable limitations of earlier teachings.
If the Quran had not come, these divisions would have endured.
The world would never have known that it had but One
Creator, nor would it have realized that its creation had one
large purpose in view. Differences between religions prior to
Islam seem to require rather than to resist the coming of a
Teaching which should unite them all.
The second question is, was not the human mind to undergo
the same process of evolution as the human body had already
undergone ? And just as the human body had ultimately
reached a certain stability of form, was not the mind (and soul)
of man destined similarly to attain to a stability which was its
ultimate end ?
MEANING OF CIVILIZATION AND CULTURE
In answer to this question we must remember that when we
examine retrospectively the civilization and culture of different
countries, we find that there have been many different periods
through which those countries have passed. Some of these
periods have been so advanced that between them and our
time there seems to be little or no difference. If we disregard
the mechanical achievements of the modern world, the ach’ ieve-
ments of some of the earlier periods of human history seem
little different from the achievements of our own time. Both in
civilization and culture such similarities exist.
Unquote
Thanks
We continue knowing important information about Quran from the treatise “INTRODUCTION T O THE STUDY OF THE HOLY QURAN” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, the son of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi. This he wrote when English translation of Quran was being launched by Ahmadia- a peaceful community in Islam.
alislam.org/books/invitation/arg5.html
Please read my previous post on this thread:
Again we read:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,
Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the
Samaritans enter ye not : but go rather to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel (Matthew 10 : 5-6).
Nobody should imagine that the idea here is that Christian
preachers should first go to Israelite towns, then to others.
For, to go to the lost sheep of Israel does not mean only to visit
their towns, but to convert them to Christianity.
The idea, therefore, is that until the Israelites have become Christian, no attention is to be paid to others. Jesus makes it quite clear that the task of preaching to Israel and converting them will not be completed until his Second Coming. Thus we read :
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another :
for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities
of Israel, till the Son of man be come (Matthew 10 : 23).
From this it is clear that Matthew 28 : 19 requires Christian
preachers to establish Christianity in the towns of Israel and
not merely to visit those towns. It is made quite clear that this
duty of preaching to the Israelites will not be over until the
Second Coming. I n preaching to others, therefore, while the
Second Coming of Jesus had yet to take place, Christian
preachers are acting against the teaching of Jesus.
The apostles also regard it as incorrect to preach the Gospel
to non-Israelites. Thus we read :
Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution
that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus,
and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews
only (Acts I I : 19).
Similarly, when the apostles heard that Peter in one place
had preached the Gospel to non-Israelites, they were annoyed :
And when Peter was come to Jerusalem, they that were of the
circumcision contended with him, saying, Thou wentest into
men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them (Acts I I : 2-3).
Before the Holy Prophet of Islam, therefore, nobody
addressed a Message to the whole of mankind; before the Quran,
no book addressed itself to the whole of humanity. It is the
Holy Prophet who declared :
“Say, 0 mankind ! truly I am a Messenger to you all from
Allah” (7 : 159).
The revelation of the Quran, therefore, was meant to remove
those differences and divisions which had come to pass between
religion and religion and people and people, and which had
first arisen out of the inevitable limitations of earlier teachings.
If the Quran had not come, these divisions would have endured.
The world would never have known that it had but One
Creator, nor would it have realized that its creation had one
large purpose in view. Differences between religions prior to
Islam seem to require rather than to resist the coming of a
Teaching which should unite them all.
The second question is, was not the human mind to undergo
the same process of evolution as the human body had already
undergone ? And just as the human body had ultimately
reached a certain stability of form, was not the mind (and soul)
of man destined similarly to attain to a stability which was its
ultimate end ?
MEANING OF CIVILIZATION AND CULTURE
In answer to this question we must remember that when we
examine retrospectively the civilization and culture of different
countries, we find that there have been many different periods
through which those countries have passed. Some of these
periods have been so advanced that between them and our
time there seems to be little or no difference. If we disregard
the mechanical achievements of the modern world, the ach’ ieve-
ments of some of the earlier periods of human history seem
little different from the achievements of our own time. Both in
civilization and culture such similarities exist.
Unquote
Thanks
M
Montalban
Guest
paarsurrey can cite scripture - which *must *be inspired
D
dolphinlove
Guest
thats a firstI’m not arguing against you!
M
Montalban
Guest
As you say, miracles can happen.thats a first
- Status