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planter654
Guest
So if ST. Peter was an apostle of Jesus Christ then his successsors are apostles also the Catholic Church.
God Bless
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God Bless
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davidv
Guest
In a way, but they are called popes (and bishops), not apostles.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
All of this ignores the simple fact of the Church’s Magisterium.
The record is clear. For nearly 2,000 years, the Catholic Church has taught a constant, consistant, and coherent message. In less than a quarter of that time, Protestantism has quarreled, split, fragmented, re-split, and so on.
The record is clear. For nearly 2,000 years, the Catholic Church has taught a constant, consistant, and coherent message. In less than a quarter of that time, Protestantism has quarreled, split, fragmented, re-split, and so on.
po18guy
Well-known member
And quite unfortunately so. Let us pray that the Holy Spirit illumine their hearts and bring them to unity in Christ. Amen.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Amen.
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ckempston
Guest
It’s not hard to be consistent when those who disagree are put out of the church.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
The fact is, we are consistant – and it’s hard to argue that there is more than one Truth.
When one leaves the Church, one finds oneself in a bewildering thicket of quarreling, disputational sects, many of which hate each other, and some so far from the original Gospel as to be unrecognizable.
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ckempston
Guest
Examples? Or just flowery language?
You’re right, there is one Truth - God’s. However, you seem to be confusing doctrines with Truth, and hate with disagreement. Paul had no problem with disagreement, so long as the Christians lived up to what they did agree on. Some individuals preach hate, and that’s an unfortunate fact, but I think the majority of Christianity agrees on all of the basics.
Speaking of the original Gospel - it seems to have been a lot more simple in the 1st century than what the Catholic church has made it out to be.
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planter654
Guest
In the book of revelation
Chapter 3 Verse 17
When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. He touched me with his right hand and said.
Do not be afraid, I am the first and the last, athe one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I AM ALIVE FOREVER AND EVER." I HOLD THE KEYS" TO DEATH AND THE NETHER WORLD.
Write down, therefore , what you have seen and what is happening and WHAT WILL HAPEN AFTERWARDS. This is the SECRET MEANING of the 7 stars you saw in my right hand, and of the 7 gold lampstands: The 7 STARS are the ANGELS of the 7 CHURCHES, and the 7 LAMPSTANDS are the 7 CHURCHES!!
Chapter 22 Verse 3
And there shall be NO MORE any ACCURSED THING; but the THRONE OF GOD AND OF THE LAMB SHALL BE IN IT, and his servants shall serve him.
Chapter 22 Verse 8
And when I heard and saw, I fell down to WORSHIP at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. And he said to me, ’ THOU MUST NOT DO THAT. I AM A FELLOW-SERVANT OF THINE AND OF THEY BRETHREN THE PROPHETS, AND OF THOSE WHO KEEP THE WORDS OF THIS BOOK…“WORSHIP GOD”!
Words of Christ
I am athe Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end! Blessed are thye who wash their robes that they may have the right to the tree of life, and that by the GATES they may enter into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers, and the IDOLATERS, and everyone who loves and PRACTISES FALSEHOOD.
I, Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things CONCERNING THE CHURCHES!
GOD BLESS…interesting God mentions 7 Churches, mentions also he holds the Keys.
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davidv
Guest
But they are not separated churches. Each community was Catholic.
Even if the king enstrusts his keys to a prime minister, he retains the keys for himself.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
(Gal.1:6,8)
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CathFaith1
Guest
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GordonBOPS
Guest
As far as Church succession - and I didn’t see if this point has been raised yet - but obviously Titus and Timothy were appointed as Bishops by Paul himself - so, that begins the establishment of the “Church” - and it also is in appropriate to appeal ONLY to scripture (don’t know if this point was made yet as its a very long chain of posts) as what was and wasn’t scripture was not soldified for hundreds of years (a period longer than ever we’ve had in this country under the Constitution - and look how much we ALREADY fight over what that document means). Thus, we also must appeal to the traditions established in that time, the Church must have grown up from and was established by Christ, and he told the Apostles that they had the power to forgive or to retain sins – and we can’t assume that God intended that power to exist only for that generation (and again we do KNOW that other “apostles” were appointed as the Church spread out).
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ckempston
Guest
Vern, I’m not sure what your point is in posting Galatians 1:5-6. It doesn’t prove anything for your position. The Gospel message would fall under things that all Christians must obviously agree on. Are you denying that there were differences of opinion among Christians in the 1st century? Paul himself says this is OK in Phil 3, particularly verses 15-16.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Pretending that minor disputes are equal to heresy is disingenuous. Paul forthrightly rejected heresy.
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ckempston
Guest
Vern, it seems to me that you’re attacking a straw man, but I may just be misunderstanding your point.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
You misunderstand. Neither Paul, nor any of the other apostles tolerated heresy. They tenaciously defended the Gospel with which they had been entrusted.
The Church has maintained the teachings of the Apostles for 2,000 years. Only those who abandoned the Magisterium have wandered off into such a vast diversity of conflicting doctrines.
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planter654
Guest
If they were one church why did Jesus mention that? Instead Jesus says there were 7 stars,7 Spirits, 7 angels, 7 lampstands, 7 churches? John mentions in Chapter 1 Verse–4
John to the seven Churches that are in “Asia” Does not mention the church in Rome why?
Jesus is speaking and telling us about the end of time when Jesus returns.
Just asking. The Church never teaches upon the book of Revelation.
God Bless
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planter654
Guest
Maybe the keys and its meaning is KNOWLEGDE? FOR IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION…GOD SAID HE HOLDS THE KEYS TO DEATH AND THE NEITHER WORLD.
YES! I BELIEVE Peter and the apostles are living eternal Spirits in God’s Kingdom, do you think so?
Because Moses and St. John the Baptize met with Jesus on earth and the apostles bore witness to that.
This might sound crazy but I believe Jesus generation has not end not until all the gentles are in.
God Bless
YES! I BELIEVE Peter and the apostles are living eternal Spirits in God’s Kingdom, do you think so?
Because Moses and St. John the Baptize met with Jesus on earth and the apostles bore witness to that.
This might sound crazy but I believe Jesus generation has not end not until all the gentles are in.
God Bless
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ckempston
Guest
I agree with your first paragraph. Not sure what the problem is.
Though, I disagree with your second paragraph. What the church has actually done for 2000 years is “add to” and “clarify” the teaching of the Apostles, when no additions or clarifications were needed. This started with, or before, Arius, and hasn’t stopped since. Basically, what I mean here is that everything Arius taught incorrectly could have been refuted with Scripture, but instead the church made up a nice extra-biblical creed (good pun! I didn’t even notice until after I finished typing.).
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