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Markie_Boy
Guest
Would be so nice if He would just send a us a direct message of what He would like us to do.
I like Proverbs 3:5-6 on this one - let’s keep Trusting the Lord so He will make straight our paths!
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I like Proverbs 3:5-6 on this one - let’s keep Trusting the Lord so He will make straight our paths!
L
Lucretius
Guest
Why don’t you enter into the fullness of Christ’s Church, and become a light to them, a city on a hill, a lamp shining throughout the house?
Christi pax.
M
Markie_Boy
Guest
Really - I think it’s time - 
!
!
E
e_c
Guest
Deo Gratias! Welcome home, Markie Boy!
G
GLam8833
Guest
I think that Catholics are more attuned to
God’s ways and love LIFE, just as the
Magisterium says, we are Pro-Life and
appreciate the miracle of a Baby being
born into the world and WELCOME it.
I find it helpful not to judge other Catholics
until you get to KNOW them.
One dear Catholic lady enrolled me in
a prayer intention of a certain Society
when she heard of my problem, and
today she said to me after mass that
“converts to the Church makes the
best Catholics”!!
God’s ways and love LIFE, just as the
Magisterium says, we are Pro-Life and
appreciate the miracle of a Baby being
born into the world and WELCOME it.
I find it helpful not to judge other Catholics
until you get to KNOW them.
One dear Catholic lady enrolled me in
a prayer intention of a certain Society
when she heard of my problem, and
today she said to me after mass that
“converts to the Church makes the
best Catholics”!!
M
mattp0625
Guest
I noticed many Protestants, and former Catholics, base their church decisions on people rather than Christian truth. I think that’s a mistake.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Indeed.
Imagine if the Jews in Palestine 2000 years ago based their decision on whether to follow Christ on Judas (or even Peter) rather than Jesus.
M
Markie_Boy
Guest
I agree - but I have also recently heard a Catholic source talk about how Catholic churches are often a bit cold. Having been in both a fair amount, protestant churches tend to be more welcoming.
Not saying they have more truth - but it is a sad observation. I feel like an evangelist at heart, and I don’t want to bring someone to the parish we are at, as I feel it would not encourage them to go to a church again.
If the Holy Spirit is at work, it should at least look like it some.
D
Della
Guest
The problem is this is going by appearances instead of by the reality of what a Catholic parish is and what it isn’t.
A Catholic parish usually consists of large numbers of families–sometimes numbering in the thousands. There is no way everyone can possibly know everyone else. And not everyone attends the same Mass schedule. In large parishes there are around 4 Masses starting Saturday evening and ending Sunday evening. So, seeing everyone at one time just doesn’t happen. Most Catholic parishes have greeters to help new people or visitors find their way around. And there is usually a time for coffee and donuts after Mass.
Catholic parishes tend to have small groups for various purposes, such as evangelization, yes, but even for such mundane things as cleaning the pews, along with prayer groups, etc. So, that’s generally how people fellowship with each other.
Also, Catholics come to Mass to worship God in corporate worship. It’s not about individuals as much as it’s about being part of a community. We are there to worship God in spirit and in truth, to hear God’s word proclaimed, and to receive the body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ. We aren’t there primarily to socialize. That is done outside of Mass because the focus of the Mass is God, not each other.
When one is received into the Church from a Protestant denomination in which fellowship took much higher priority, it means shifting one’s focus from the horizontal–other people and ourselves, to the vertical --to God in worship, while making Christ the most important focus in the horizontal. It’s God first, others second, and me last. Simply because no one rushes up to hug newcomers doesn’t mean a parish is cold. It merely means that families and individuals are there primarily to worship God. Ministries, such as lay evangelization, takes place outside of the Church’s liturgies.
C
ChurchSoldier
Guest
There is so much here. I think you are for the most part pretty accurate which is nice. I also think that you don’t see what you outlined as a problem, which isn’t as nice.The problem is this is going by appearances instead of by the reality of what a Catholic parish is and what it isn’t.
A Catholic parish usually consists of large numbers of families–sometimes numbering in the thousands. There is no way everyone can possibly know everyone else. And not everyone attends the same Mass schedule. In large parishes there are around 4 Masses starting Saturday evening and ending Sunday evening. So, seeing everyone at one time just doesn’t happen. Most Catholic parishes have greeters to help new people or visitors find their way around. And there is usually a time for coffee and donuts after Mass.
Catholic parishes tend to have small groups for various purposes, such as evangelization, yes, but even for such mundane things as cleaning the pews, along with prayer groups, etc. So, that’s generally how people fellowship with each other.
Also, Catholics come to Mass to worship God in corporate worship. It’s not about individuals as much as it’s about being part of a community. We are there to worship God in spirit and in truth, to hear God’s word proclaimed, and to receive the body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ. We aren’t there primarily to socialize. That is done outside of Mass because the focus of the Mass is God, not each other.
When one is received into the Church from a Protestant denomination in which fellowship took much higher priority, it means shifting one’s focus from the horizontal–other people and ourselves, to the vertical --to God in worship, while making Christ the most important focus in the horizontal. It’s God first, others second, and me last. Simply because no one rushes up to hug newcomers doesn’t mean a parish is cold. It merely means that families and individuals are there primarily to worship God. Ministries, such as lay evangelization, takes place outside of the Church’s liturgies.
You’re on target with stating most Catholics’ faith is lived out through going to Mass. Just on that one topic, 75% don’t go to Mass. Of those that do, it appears many/most are fulfilling and obligation rather than any sense of awe of God.
I don’t usually attend a Novus Ordo parish, but when I do, I don’t experience that people are there to worship, but to mark the box and receive the Eucharist. They seem to speed through the prayers, shorten hymns and run out of the sanctuary rather than spending a couple minutes in prayer (if they stay after receiving…). I went to one mid-morning Sunday Mass of about 200 people where it was 32 minutes from the scheduled start until the Priest was making post service announcements. Realizing the state of the average Catholic, I cried/sobbed/wailed (take your choice) for 15 minutes after. This is the 25% that show up.
One thing that we Catholics don’t get, is that community and inviting people to church is built in to the DNA of many Protestant Churches. People are excited about their church experience and want their friends to experience what they experience. It is social. It is communal. It is what Markie referred to in his initial post and frankly what the early church modeled for the Christian life. So if we’re not doing it…well…
Finally, I don’t expect you to “get it”. Most long time Catholics have no reference point of what belonging to a mission oriented church is because they’ve never been a part of one and never needed to. They just fulfill the Sunday obligation and they’re good. Most of them have family and friends who have left the church and what’s left behind is often more influenced by the culture than Christ.
Wow this post is way longer than I thought it’d be. But what I’m describing is in part what the original post was speaking about. If the churches mission is to convert people, what you are saying is to find out more, a non-Catholic, let alone a non-Christian, not only needs to overcome the fear of showing up for the first time, they then must join some other group to connect with people to see if they want to be involved…and we wonder why it isn’t growing or people like Markie are hesitant to join
.Thanks for your post, this response isn’t a rant against you, just an explanation of what a Protestant sees when they come over as the responses from the long time Catholics have a distinctly different flavor than those of us from Protestant backgrounds.
PAX
E
e_c
Guest
…SOME places.There is so much here. I think you are for the most part pretty accurate which is nice. I also think that you don’t see what you outlined as a problem, which isn’t as nice.
You’re on target with stating most Catholics’ faith is lived out through going to Mass. Just on that one topic, 75% don’t go to Mass. Of those that do, it appears many/most are fulfilling and obligation rather than any sense of awe of God.
I don’t usually attend a Novus Ordo parish, but when I do, I don’t experience that people are there to worship, but to mark the box and receive the Eucharist. They seem to speed through the prayers, shorten hymns and run out of the sanctuary rather than spending a couple minutes in prayer (if they stay after receiving…). I went to one mid-morning Sunday Mass of about 200 people where it was 32 minutes from the scheduled start until the Priest was making post service announcements. Realizing the state of the average Catholic, I cried/sobbed/wailed (take your choice) for 15 minutes after. This is the 25% that show up.
One thing that we Catholics don’t get, is that community and inviting people to church is built in to the DNA of many Protestant Churches. People are excited about their church experience and want their friends to experience what they experience. It is social. It is communal. It is what Markie referred to in his initial post and frankly what the early church modeled for the Christian life. So if we’re not doing it…well…
Finally, I don’t expect you to “get it”. Most long time Catholics have no reference point of what belonging to a mission oriented church is because they’ve never been a part of one and never needed to. They just fulfill the Sunday obligation and they’re good. Most of them have family and friends who have left the church and what’s left behind is often more influenced by the culture than Christ.
Wow this post is way longer than I thought it’d be. But what I’m describing is in part what the original post was speaking about. If the churches mission is to convert people, what you are saying is to find out more, a non-Catholic, let alone a non-Christian, not only needs to overcome the fear of showing up for the first time, they then must join some other group to connect with people to see if they want to be involved…and we wonder why it isn’t growing or people like Markie are hesitant to join
Thanks for your post, this response isn’t a rant against you, just an explanation of what a Protestant sees when they come over as the responses from the long time Catholics have a distinctly different flavor than those of us from Protestant backgrounds.
PAX
T
Thorolfr
Guest
I was raised Southern Baptist and it’s a new one on me that Baptists aren’t supposed to dance. I’m sure that some do believe this, but certainly not all Baptists by a long shot. And some Baptists drink alcoholic beverages, too. There is really nothing in core Baptist doctrines on either drinking or dancing. The Baptist preacher Elijah Craig (c. 1743-1808) who was from Kentucky is credited with the invention of bourbon whiskey.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Then I suggest that you get your self in there and begin to bring the same warmth you bring here into that parish.
C’mon Markie, you know as well as I do that all that n-C “warmth” is the same as it is in any Christian community and is generated by a very small percentage of the congregation…and it’s the same in Catholic Churches, so why hold us to a higher standard? That makes no sense brother.
As for it “looking like” the Holy Spirit is at work…what does that even mean? All that emotional warmth is mostly noise and doesn’t really mean much in terms of real Christian living. People can go out that door and be just like the rest of the world and they sometimes do. Besides, remember, the church is a field hospital for sinners and not a hotel for saints. Ever visit a hospital? Is everyone there effusively warm to everyone they meet?
You need to get your fanny into the Tiber and quite playing in the shore break because God has called you and you are waffling instead of acting in faith. Time to get wet little brother.
Merry Christmas!
C
ChurchSoldier
Guest
I concur (wholeheartedly).You need to get your fanny into the Tiber and quite playing in the shore brieak because God has called you and you are waffling instead of acting in faith. Time to get wet little brother.
Merry Christmas!
L
Lenten_ashes
Guest
I have to sort of agree with him on this warmth issue.Then I suggest that you get your self in there and begin to bring the same warmth you bring here into that parish.
C’mon Markie, you know as well as I do that all that n-C “warmth” is the same as it is in any Christian community and is generated by a very small percentage of the congregation…and it’s the same in Catholic Churches, so why hold us to a higher standard? That makes no sense brother.
As for it “looking like” the Holy Spirit is at work…what does that even mean? All that emotional warmth is mostly noise and doesn’t really mean much in terms of real Christian living. People can go out that door and be just like the rest of the world and they sometimes do. Besides, remember, the church is a field hospital for sinners and not a hotel for saints. Ever visit a hospital? Is everyone there effusively warm to everyone they meet?
You need to get your fanny into the Tiber and quite playing in the shore break because God has called you and you are waffling instead of acting in faith. Time to get wet little brother.
Merry Christmas!
Protestant churches do tend to be more welcoming but I think it’s all about the nature of the two services. In the Mass you are taught as a youth to keep it zipped and be very respectful of the divine liturgy. And rightfully so as we know what is actually taking place there.
With most protestant services it is basically a amped up bible study if you will(no disrespect intended) - so more freedom to say and do whatever in there.
But I’ve noticed plenty of warmth in functions such as RCIA, retreats and other special events - things that are less formal.
Ironically, my fundamentalist mother just told me that tongues should be allowed in our Mass and to not allow it is “legalism”. So that’s one ridiculous end of the spectrum. Thankfully I don’t think most protestants are so extreme.
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Markie_Boy
Guest
Yes - you are correct, and no dis-respect. I miss the services at my old Baptist church, as they were passionate - but it pretty much was Bible study.
W
Wesrock
Guest
This got me thinking. Catholic worship has traditionally been about silent, peaceful reverence during the mass/divine liturgy. This tradition creates a more reserved, “colder” assembly (I say colder, but in some respects that might be looking at it through the wrong lens). Catholics have been taught as a norm from the time they were children to be quiet and attentive at mass for 1,500 to 2,000 years. That said, I’ve seen people warm up a lot at functions outside of mass.
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Lenten_ashes
Guest
I think it does naturally produce a colder climate, to a certain extent.
But i think it also depends on the celebrant who conducts it. God bless all our priests, but some are very dull in their homilies, while others are lively and make you feel warm…
D
dje101
Guest
Well, none of the apostles on the night of the passion acted very Christianly…they all deserted Christ and Peter even denied Him. But we don’t join the Church for the people, we join the Church because of Christ. Then, we dedicated ourself to following Him and the teachings of his Church, doing our best and praying to bring those around us (both Catholic and non-Catholic) into greater unity with Him and His Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Don’t let the bad apples of the Church keep you away.
- Status