About your research of Jack's T. Chick tracts...

[FCEGM]

Jack Chick is to theology what Larry Flynt is to literature.

 

[Fidelis]

deb1:

Doesn’t he believe that Catholics are responsible for the holocaust?

To paraphrase Will Rogers, Chick thinks Catholics are responsible for every earthly evil, from acne to tight underwear.

Nobody who as misinformed as Jack Chick about history and Catholic teaching deserves any credibility.

For a tract by tract refutation of Jack Chick, go here:

mafg.home.isp-direct.com/jtchick/jtc02r.html

 

[Robert_in_SD]

FCEGM:

Jack Chick is to theology what Larry Flynt is to literature.

Well said.

Anti-Catholic tracts produced by Chick publications try to overwhelm the reader with objection after objection after objection. I don’t think anyone can buy into every objection, but they pile up to the point that the reader feels unsettled. If you take the time to address each objection by itself in a systematic way, you quickly reveal the specious nature of the attack.

(1) Sources are dubious at best;
(2) many Anti-Catholic claims are unsupported
(3) False assumptions are made by the authors; and
(4) Catholic doctrines are delibertately (or recklessly) misrepresented.

Sea Oat;

Most of Chick’s objections have been well addressed in other threads on this forum, but if you have any specific concerns that you would like addressed, please feel free to raise them in a new thread. You can provide a link, so we do not preempt this thread topic.

Peace

 

[D_Quintero]

Rick-Xto:

Jesuchrist doesn’t like religion, He likes the people on it (to let religion go), but He is not agree. Read the Bible for this.

Please explain why you believe Jesus does not like the Catholic religion.
I see on your profile you are non religious yet you then say “I’m Christian”. Please explain your reasoning

 

[sea_oat]

Ok…I didn’t mean to usurp this thread, so the mods can delete my posts, or move them.

I just wanted to quickly mention that I finally found a response that makes sense to the main thorn in my side brought up in the chick tract. Thank goodness. And lo and behold, it’s on this site:

catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp

 

[TheRaiders]

Good job.
The Chick tracs, if anything, expose what some more extreme ministers are telling their flock about the Catholic Church. The Divinci Code does the same thing.
Looking on the bright side, it shows us what we may be up against. I could go the rest of my Catholic life without ever considering why Catholicism wasn’t pagan, or some of the other claims. Why? Because when you are Catholic, you know they are false for any number of reasons. But we must be able to explain to a non-Catholic too. Thank you, Jack Chick. Keep up the good work.
They also show people, once they find out how misleading they are, why there is such a need for a divinely inspired Church.
It also makes people say, “Wait a minute. This claim in this comic can’t be true. So what is true…?”

 

[pnewton]

sea oat:

The charge that some important Catholic practices are more or less reincarnations of pagan practices and rituals.

If you are referring to the early church and practices like Christmas, you are absolutely correct.That is a good observation. If are referring to his re-hashing of the “mystery Babylon” theory from Hislop, then it is easily garbage, even though the burden of evidence would be on him (or Hislop whom he copies) when making such and outragious claim.

Here is a simple excercies. Look at the way priests are drawn and compare the drawing to the good guy ministers. If this isn’t propaganda in its most basic form, I do not know what is. Then ask yourself, if this sort of foolishness is used, what else is being manipulated. The truth doesn’t need such trickery. That is the domain of the devil.

 

[Rick-Xto]

manualman:

Ah, Rick. You poor kid. You fell for the devil’s 3rd best trick.

The devil has you convinced that you don’t need to listen to what anyone on earth has to say about God, about sin, about salvation, redemption and sanctification. You can figure it all out for yourself with nothing but the scriptures. How convenient for him that he need not worry about his nefarious plans for you being spoiled by the (name removed by moderator)ut of anyone older, wiser and holier, nor need he fear you receiving the nourishing graces of Christ’s sacraments.

BTW, his best is convincing people that they can BE gods. Next best is to get folks to settle for worldy treasure/pleasure instead of spiritual treasure.

My God!! what are you talking about? I had to listen people to learn the things, you can’t learn by yourself God’s will, but you should have a personal relationship with the Lord.

Well I’m chrsitian because I’m triying to follow the way of Jesuschrist, I go to the church of course! but not a catholic one, I go to one in where you call yourself christian because you have received Jesuschrist in your life and born again (writen in John 3:1-16)

About catholic beliefs, I can start with this: (I will use the Bible with no interpretation just what it says clearly)

• In the Catholic church exist hierarchy right? (Pope, Cardinal, Archbishope, Bishop, Priest, Deacon) then… have you read Mark chapter ten?

The virgin Mary not having normal wife-husband encounters with Joseph?? (Mathew 1:25)

and Mary being a mediator between God and us?? only can make someone thinks that Jesuschrist’s sacrifice was not enought (1 Timothy 2:5) (John 14:13-14, 16:23-24)

Eucharist? can someone help me search for that word in the Bible? (the same with the word catholic, pope, and some others)

If you read David’s life and Psalms you will understand the “Jesus doesn’t like religion” and of course the Gospel sets it clear.

The pope, head of the church? (Please read Ephesians 1:22, 5-23 and Colossians 1:18)

This are just examples.

There is more… I’ll gladly post them if you want.

God bless you all!

 

[pnewton]

Rick-Xto:

There is more… I’ll gladly post them if you want.

No need. Your points all have answers, some incrediably simple. You could start your own thread on each one, or look up several already started on each topic. You could also go to the CA homepage and get the synopsis of the response.

I am rejoice with you in your conversion and am glad you have found a good church home. If you want to know what Catholics believe, read Catholics, though.

 

[rayne89]

Oh brother .

My dear friend, although you may not realize this you are not the first person to raise such question about the Church here on the forum, in fact your not even the hundred and first. If you go to the Catholic answers main home page you will find tracts on every subject you’ve listed that will give you a thorough explaination. You could also do a search of threads here on the forum, there are many that address these very issues.

I have answered these questions one too many times and am thoroughly burnt out on the subject matter but I’m sure someone will very helpful to you and post a response to questions.

I know you think us Catholics are just poor, misguided indivduals who never read the Bible and just go around kissing the pope’s ring but it is you who are misguided. I will give you a starting point to do a little factual research about early Christianity. Do a google of the the early church father’s writings on the net. These are the first historical writings of the Christians, outside of the Bible, Which by the way, the Bible as a book didn’t exhist for the first several generations of Christians until the Bishops in the hierarchy of the Catholic church had a counsel and decided -with guidance of the Holy Spirit- which books to include in the Bible and which not to include.The Church came before the Bible not the other way around.

God Bless you on your journey.

 

[TheRaiders]

If you are reffering to Mark 10:42–45, then I can see how you would get this. But read more carefuly. Jesus does not say that there shall be no heirarchy. He tells the leaders how they should act.
Mark 10:42-45
"Jesus called them together said to them: “You know how among the Gentiles those who see, to exercise authority lord it over them; their great ones make their importance felt. It cannot be like that among you. Anyone among you who aspires to greatness must serve the rest; whoever wants to rank first among you must serve the needs of all. The Son of Man has not come to be served but to serve–to give His life in ransom for the many.”
Jesus does not admonish those who aspire to greatness, He only shows them how they are to act once they do. They can not act like gentile kings (who are served), but like the King of Kings (Jesus) who serves.
That is exactly what priests, deacons, Eucharistic ministers, ushers, readers, Popes, Cardinals, and other positions within the Church are for. To serve. Jesus did want a heirarchy, becasue there was one amongst his followers. It was called the 12 Apostles, with the head of them being Peter. He didn’t want thousands with the final authority in His teachings or they would have been lost. Read about the first couple centuries of Christianity. It was the heirarchy that preserved the message, because they all recieved divine authority from the Apostles. The didn’t have a Bible yet like you and me brother.

You are using interpretation if you can say that Mathew 1:25 tells of sexual relations between Mary and Joseph. Just the opposite.
“He had no relations with her at any time before she bore a son, whom he named Jesus.”
Matthew does not tell us what happened after that, true. But the Bible does not tell us a good number of things. That does not mean we can assume the Church is wrong, when it was the Church that put together the Bible. Mary’s perpetual virginity wasn’t important to what Matthew was saying at the time. He just was showing how Jesus wasn’t concieved by Joseph.
Do you want answers to the other one’s too?

 

[edward_george]

Do a google of the the early church father’s writings on the net. These are the first historical writings of the Christians, outside of the Bible,

I’ll do ya one better…

newadvent.org/fathers/

A lot of Early Fathers’ works may be found here, including the Didache–written between AD 80 and AD 100 and containing the teachings of the Apostles–including mention of Bishops, Deacons, and the structure of the Church, as well as numerous other distinctly Catholic ideas.

Also, try the “Fathers Know Best” section on www.catholic.com

-ACEGC

 

[Rick-Xto]

wow. I have just read something in the CA homepage about what catholics believe and I can say this is not new for me, I have been studying this at least one year, and this anwers just are human interpretation of the God’s Word, and there’s no need for this long explanation for the simple understandable words of our Lord.

(please for some answers for my post: can you stop judging?)

see you!

 

[katewithak]

Rick-Xto:

My God!! what are you talking about? I had to listen people to learn the things, you can’t learn by yourself God’s will, but you should have a personal relationship with the Lord.

Well I’m chrsitian because I’m triying to follow the way of Jesuschrist, I go to the church of course! but not a catholic one, I go to one in where you call yourself christian because you have received Jesuschrist in your life and born again (writen in John 3:1-16)

About catholic beliefs, I can start with this: (I will use the Bible with no interpretation just what it says clearly)

• In the Catholic church exist hierarchy right? (Pope, Cardinal, Archbishope, Bishop, Priest, Deacon) then… have you read Mark chapter ten?

The virgin Mary not having normal wife-husband encounters with Joseph?? (Mathew 1:25)

and Mary being a mediator between God and us?? only can make someone thinks that Jesuschrist’s sacrifice was not enought (1 Timothy 2:5) (John 14:13-14, 16:23-24)

Eucharist? can someone help me search for that word in the Bible? (the same with the word catholic, pope, and some others)

If you read David’s life and Psalms you will understand the “Jesus doesn’t like religion” and of course the Gospel sets it clear.

The pope, head of the church? (Please read Ephesians 1:22, 5-23 and Colossians 1:18)

This are just examples.

There is more… I’ll gladly post them if you want.

God bless you all!

I have a question for the fundamentalists here. This is an easier one I think than some of the others. (Iam usually unwilling to argue about the Virgin’s virginity.) My question is this: how do fundamentalists interpret the Gospel and the words of Jesus:
Do you love me more than these? Feed my sheep.
You shall be called …meaning Rock.
Also, how do the fundamentalists explain earlier Christian behavior and their acceptance of Peter as a senior member with authority, for they definately did. I ask because this passage is what the Papal authority is predicated upon and fundamentalists reject that authority. Please, Catholics, I already know what you think. Let the fundamentalists explain, please.

 

[Ghosty]

Eucharist? can someone help me search for that word in the Bible? (the same with the word catholic, pope, and some others)

I wasn’t going to respond to this thread, but man this one is too funny. Let me ask you something, Rick: do you read Greek? If so I’d like you to find a concordance Bible and look up Luke 22:17-19.

Actually, I’ll do you one better. Here’s an online Concordance Bible with those passages already pulled up. Pay special attention to the word “gave thanks”, and to the context of the passage.



Peace and God bless!

 

[Rick-Xto]

You are telling me I’m using interpretation on what I wrote, but, the words writen on Mathew about Mary and Joseph are the same expressions in Genesis 4:1,17,25 and more.

About Mark 10, as you said, you have to read it all!!! you stressed in Mark 10:43-44) I can use this to refute about Peter’s (name removed by moderator)ortance catholics give to him among the other disciples… and so much more…

 

[Rick-Xto]

That’s Greek man! nowbody have taught me how to speak or read greek, I don’t need it cause my job is to tell the people about the Salvation Jesus wants to give them not teach them about that eucharisteo is included into Salvation. This eucharisteo word I can addmit I failed, but you answered me only one mistake.

 

[Tarsicius]

Rick,
If you want the plain sense of scripture, I suggest you look at John chapter six, here is Jesus not speaking in a parable ( he always goes on to explain his parables afterwards) nor does he try to explain when the crowd and his disiples leave because they can’t bear his teaching. even th apostles are confused and Jesus asks if they want to leave too. If you eat his flesh and drink his blood you will abide in him and he in you. This is the eucharist ( from the greek meaning thanksgiving). Speaking of words in the bible, show me where “trinity” is, I asume you believe in God in three persons. The words that you list are simply names to express the concept found in scripture. They don’t need to be in the bible to express a biblical truth.

A good book for your search is Dave Armstong’s “a biblical defense of catholicism”

God love ya bro!

 

[sea_oat]

pnewton:

If you are referring to the early church and practices like Christmas, you are absolutely correct.That is a good observation. If are referring to his re-hashing of the “mystery Babylon” theory from Hislop, then it is easily garbage, even though the burden of evidence would be on him (or Hislop whom he copies) when making such and outragious claim.

I’m not entirely familiar with Hislop or the “mystery of Babylon,” and I’m not going to investigate it too thoroughly. Not tonight, anyway.

But yes, I was worried about some holidays (All Hallow’s Eve, Easter, Christmas, etc.), and Church practices being forms of early pagan practices and celebrations.

For instance, most people, myself included, learn early on from textbooks that the veneration of Mary and the Saints was an enticement to convert pagans who were used to worshipping different gods/goddesses. Similarly, the formation of holidays like Easter supposedly had intentions of appeasing/enticing pagans.

Of course, Protestants fall victim to participating in former pagan traditions as well, like putting up and decorating Christmas trees. But the veneration of the saints as a watered-down practice of polytheism is a very serious charge, and one that doesn’t only come from nutty Chick tracts…it comes from detached Historians and scholars as well.

Cradle Catholics and/or those 100% firm in the Catholic faith may scoff and roll eyes, but it’s deeply disturbing to some of us who are just now coming to the faith.

 

[katewithak]

sea oat:

I’m not entirely familiar with Hislop or the “mystery of Babylon,” and I’m not going to investigate it too thoroughly. Not tonight, anyway.

But yes, I was worried about some holidays (All Hallow’s Eve, Easter, Christmas, etc.), and Church practices being forms of early pagan practices and celebrations.

For instance, most people, myself included, learn early on from textbooks that the veneration of Mary and the Saints was an enticement to convert pagans who were used to worshipping different gods/goddesses. Similarly, the formation of holidays like Easter supposedly had intentions of appeasing/enticing pagans.

Of course, Protestants fall victim to participating in former pagan traditions as well, like putting up and decorating Christmas trees. But the veneration of the saints as a watered-down form of polytheism is a very serious charge, and one that doesn’t only come from nutty Chick tracts. It comes from detached Historians and scholars as well.

Cradle Catholics and/or those 100% firm in the Catholic faith may scoff and roll eyes, but it’s deeply disturbing to some of us who are just now coming to the faith.

I understand it may be hard for a convert. But remember veneration of Saints, just as reverence at the Eucharist has as it’s aim only minutely of reducing pagan practices. We venerate Saints because of their contribution to the Body of Christ first, not to keep pagans from practicing pagan religions. We pray to Mary, yes, I said, to, because she is first and foremost the Mother of the Blessed Sacrament and within that Blessed Sacrament, Christ is alive and well and truly present. Early on and now, we do not worship Mary or the Saints- we remember they are part of our own Body- the Body of Christ. For we state that He resurrected and Ascended and therefore overcame death and is very much alive and with us i the Sacrament. According to His own promises, His followers will be as well. (I always feel funny explaining this to those who read the Bible literally because this literal interpretation of the Catholic Church on the roots of our Eucharist causes much argument with literalists!) His followers include the saints and His own Holy Mother. Why not pray to her then? Where is the paganism in it? It is a literal interpretation of Gospel on the part of the Catholic Church really. We do take the Last Supper very literally.