About your research of Jack's T. Chick tracts...

[mercygate]

NonDenom:

Hi
We hired or set if you prefur, our Minister while being guided by the Holy Spirit. We have the authority to do this because we are members of the one true church that Jesus himself founded while on this earth, and that is HIS church. We are called by HIS name and live by the guidelines that he set forth through HIS Holy Scriptures. We give ALL Praise, Honor and Glory to Jesus. We are Catholic, for we are part of HIS Universal church:

If you reject the teachings of the Catholic Church, then you are certainly NOT Catholic, however you may wish to characterize yourself. If you insist on using the Protestant definition of the church while still calling yourself catholic, do not write it with a capital “C”.

u·ni·ver·sal
1 Of, relating to, extending to, or affecting the entire world or all within the world; worldwide: “This discovery of literature has as yet only partially penetrated the universal consciousness”.
2 Including, relating to, or affecting all members of the class or group under consideration: the universal skepticism of philosophers.
3 Applicable or common to all purposes, conditions, or situations: a universal remedy.
4 Of or relating to the universe or cosmos; cosmic.
5 Knowledgeable about or constituting all or many subjects; comprehensively broad.
6 Adapted or adjustable to many sizes or mechanical uses.
7 Logic. Encompassing all of the members of a class or group. Used of a proposition.

An independent congregation hardly meets any of these definitions, does it?

There is one thing that NOBODY was given the authority to do and that is tell anybody weather or not they belong to Jesus.

Nobody here has made any claim about who belongs to Jesus. The issue is about who is living in his house.

I will answer this question in a later post as I need to check on the dates that these changes or additions we made to your dogma.

In Him and Only Him.

Oh, goody. Stay tuned for Loraine Boettner’s addled list.

 

[JSmitty2005]

I can’t believe anyone actually takes this guy seriously anymore! Catholics and Protestants alike recognize the absurdity of Chick’s tracts. I’m a college student at Pitt and get them here all the time. Here’s an example of how ridiculous Jack can be:

“IHS stands for Isis, Horus and Seb, the gods of Egypt.”


By the way, IHS is…

A monogram of the name of Jesus Christ. From the third century the names of our Saviour are sometimes shortened, particularly in Christian inscriptions (IH and XP, for Jesus and Christus). In the next century the “sigla” (chi-rho) occurs not only as an abbreviation but also as a symbol. From the beginning, however, in Christian inscriptions the nomina sacra, or names of Jesus Christ, were shortened by contraction, thus IC and XC or IHS and XPS for Iesous Christos. These Greek monograms continued to be used in Latin during the Middle Ages. Eventually the right meaning was lost, and erroneous interpretation of IHS led to the faulty orthography “Jhesus”. In Latin the learned abbreviation IHC rarely occurs after the Carlovingian era. The mongram became more popular after the twelfth century when St. Bernard insisted much on devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus, and the fourteenth, when the founder of the Jesuati, Blessed John Colombini (d. 1367), usually wore it on his breast. Towards the close of the Middle Ages IHS became a symbol, quite like the chi-rho in the Constantinian period. Sometimes above the H appears a cross and underneath three nails, while the whole figure is surrounded by rays. IHS became the accepted iconographical characteristic of St. Vincent Ferrer (d. 1419) and of St. Bernardine of Siena (d. 1444). The latter holy missionary, at the end of his sermons, was wont to exhibit this monogram devoutly to his audience, for which some blamed him; he was even called before Martin V. St. Ignatius of Loyola adopted the monogram in his seal as general of the Society of Jesus (1541), and thus it became the emblem of his institute. IHS was sometimes wrongly understood as “Jesus Hominum (or Hierosolymae) Salvator”, i.e. Jesus, the Saviour of men (or of Jerusalem=Hierosolyma).

Obviously if someone like Jack has the nerve to claim something so outrageous, nothing he says can be trusted. I suggest reading Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating and going here:

catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts_p1.asp

 

[RiverRock]

“We hired or set if you prefur, our Minister while being guided by the Holy Spirit”

Yeah, right. That’s what all the conflicting, splitting, and confusing “denominations” think.

 

[NonDenom]

“We hired or set if you prefur, our Minister while being guided by the Holy Spirit”

Yeah, right. That’s what all the conflicting, splitting, and confusing “denominations” think.

Hi RR
There was no conflicting or splitting, it was a unanimous. I don’t believe however that is was unanimous in electing your new pope.
Which poses another question, if the Holy Spirit guides your leaders in the selection of a new pope, why is it not unanimous?
Do you think that the Holy Spirit would lead some of your leaders in one direction and others differently? Sorry I should probably start a new thread on that question. In fact I think I will.
Thank you
In Him and Onl Him.

 

[RiverRock]

NonDenom:

Hi RR
There was no conflicting or splitting, it was a unanimous.

Until your “pope” (pastor) says something you don’t like, then you are back to church-shopping for something that fits your personal beliefs. The Catholic Church has lasted 2000 years, despite more obstacles than any of us can possibly imagine. If that isn’t divine intervention, I don’t know what is. How old is your church, by the way? Why is it that being “guided” by the Holy Spirit only applies to protestants, but doesn’t to Catholics or the Pope?

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

** I realize that many people here have huge issues with this man, and his works. I have removed several blatant personal comments regarding him, and his personal relationship with God. I would caution each of you to remember, we are not in ANY position to judge the soul of this man. He deserves our prayers. **

Feel free to continue discussion his ACTIONS. But I ask that you refrain from making personal comments or judgements on his status as a christian.

---

Thank you-

May God bless

 

[NonDenom]

Until your “pope” (pastor) says something you don’t like, then you are back to church-shopping for something that fits your personal beliefs. The Catholic Church has lasted 2000 years, despite more obstacles than any of us can possibly imagine. If that isn’t divine intervention, I don’t know what is. How old is your church, by the way? Why is it that being “guided” by the Holy Spirit only applies to protestants, but doesn’t to Catholics or the Pope?

Hi RR
The one big difference between our Minister and your Pope is that our Minister would never claim that he is infallable or that he is the one and only representitive of Christ on the earth, or as you call it, “The Vicor of Christ”. For a man to make the claim that he is in a sense “Christ on earth” in a grave mistake in my opinion.
Our Minister doesn’t want to be held up to such a high esteme, as does the Pope. I don’t go church shopping when I don’t agree with something my Minister believes. I have been at the same church since giving my life to the Lord eight years ago, And I don’t intend on leaving any time soon. I am part of the body of Christ, and that body has been around for almost 2000 years, so no my church is not a new one. The thing that I find most disturbing about most Catholics is that they talk about their church as if THEY own it. They talk about their Bible as if they own it. It is Christ’s church, HE owns it and desides who belongs, not you or any leader in your church. It’s all about Jesus and not some organization.
In Him and Him Only.

 

[RiverRock]

NonDenom:

Hi RR
The one big difference between our Minister and your Pope is that our Minister would never claim that he is infallable or that he is the one and only representitive of Christ on the earth, or as you call it, “The Vicor of Christ”. For a man to make the claim that he is in a sense “Christ on earth” in a grave mistake in my opinion.
Our Minister doesn’t want to be held up to such a high esteme, as does the Pope. I don’t go church shopping when I don’t agree with something my Minister believes. I have been at the same church since giving my life to the Lord eight years ago, And I don’t intend on leaving any time soon. I am part of the body of Christ, and that body has been around for almost 2000 years, so no my church is not a new one. The thing that I find most disturbing about most Catholics is that they talk about their church as if THEY own it. They talk about their Bible as if they own it. It is Christ’s church, HE owns it and desides who belongs, not you or any leader in your church. It’s all about Jesus and not some organization.
In Him and Him Only.

Oh why do I bother? I think I’ll talk to the wall. The thing that I find disturbing about a lot of protestants is that they go to such great lengths to deny history, twist and overlook scripture and completely dismiss sacred tradition (which was good enough for 1500 years). Then to top it off, they dismiss the Church that created the Bible that they claim to revere so much. The bible is nothing more than tradition that has been written down. I think this thread has drifted far enough.

 

[alexaustralia]

Hi Rick-Xro,

First of all thanks for having the courage to share your faith.

There a couple of things that I hope you can clarify.

Intepretation.
You seem to have a problem with people “interpreting” the Bible. However I cannot see how one cannot interpret.

E.g.
Mark1:5
5The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

We know that not ALL of the countryside of Judea nor ALL the people of Jerusalem were baptised.

Contrast it with Mat3:7
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

So these people were not baptised, hence one MUST interpret Mark 1:5 to allow for exclusions.

Also take
Mat27:5
So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

and compare with

Acts1:18
(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.

SO how did he die? One must interpret the passages here too.

Infallability
Also there was opposition to infallability (this might have not been raised by you though, can’t remember)
Here I just one to raise some questions

Who told you the Bible is the Word of God?
Was he/she (or the group) infallible?
How does one knows what has been inspired by God?
Afterall
Historical accuracy ¹ Insipired
Acceptance of certain books by Jews¹ Inspired
Acceptance of certain books by early Christians ¹ Inspired
High spiritual and moral teachings ¹ Inspired
Perfect grammar ¹Inspired

There is no way one can look at the Bible and say “yep this was written by God…no doubts about it … see here is his signature, right there”.

Every single Christian in the world has taken some one’s word (no matter who’s) that the Bible = inspired and had to believe him/her with absolutely no hard physical evidence to show for that assertion.

Now if there is no infallability then one must ask was that person’s correct or not and how am I going to go about making sure I am not accepting a heretical book as the Word of God?

 

[alexaustralia]

and…

Eucharist

Here is what the early Church Fathers had to say about it

St Hilary (Died 368 AD)

Catholic Bishop

“It is no longer permitted us to raise doubts about the true nature of the body and the blood, for, according to the statement of the Lord Himself as well as our faith, this is indeed flesh and blood.”

Tertullian (Born 160 AD)

Catholic Priest

“[Our] flesh feeds on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may fatten on [its] God.”

St Clement of Alexandria (Died 215 AD)

Philosopher

“To drink the blood of Jesus is to participate in His incorruption. Yet, the Spirit is the strength of the Word in the same way that the blood is of the body… The union of both, that is, of the potion [meaning wine] and the Word, is called the Eucharist”

St Irenaeus (130-202AD)

Bishop of Lyons

“He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks, and said, ‘This is My Body’ (Mt. 26:26). And the cup likewise… He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant…”

St Justin Martyr (100-165 AD)

A great Apologist who suffered martyrdom

“And called among us the Eucharist… For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but… is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh”

St Ignatius of Antioch (50-98/117 AD)

Bishop of Antioch. Disciple of St John the Apostle and ordained by Saint Peter.

“[The Docetics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father in His graciousness, raised from the dead”

You have to reconcile your belief on this regard by that which the early Church taught.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

NonDenom:

Hi RR
The one big difference between our Minister and your Pope is that our Minister would never claim that he is infallable or that he is the one and only representitive of Christ on the earth, or as you call it, “The Vicor of Christ”. For a man to make the claim that he is in a sense “Christ on earth” in a grave mistake in my opinion.
Our Minister doesn’t want to be held up to such a high esteme, as does the Pope. I don’t go church shopping when I don’t agree with something my Minister believes. I have been at the same church since giving my life to the Lord eight years ago, And I don’t intend on leaving any time soon. I am part of the body of Christ, and that body has been around for almost 2000 years, so no my church is not a new one. The thing that I find most disturbing about most Catholics is that they talk about their church as if THEY own it. They talk about their Bible as if they own it. It is Christ’s church, HE owns it and desides who belongs, not you or any leader in your church. It’s all about Jesus and not some organization.
In Him and Him Only.

Not to be rude, but I actually yawned in the middle of your post…Anyways good luck on your quest for spirituality

God Bless

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Ghosty:

GottleofGeer: I agree with you that the “plain sense” of the words depends entirely on the framework the reader is working from. That’s why I tend to prefer the Apostalic framework: they actually knew the guy Peace and God bless!

The problem for us, is that we still have to overcome the biasses with which we, the later readers, appoach their texts ​

Pax ##

 

[Ghosty]

## The problem for us, is that we still have to overcome the biasses with which we, the later readers, appoach their texts

Pax ##

Indeed. I’ve found that “going Jewish” leads to some fascinating insights that are suprisingly consistant with the Church’s theological and liturgical tradition. Of course, I’m biased in that regard

 

[exoflare]

NonDenom:

Hi
We hired or set if you prefur, our Minister while being guided by the Holy Spirit. We have the authority to do this because we are members of the one true church that Jesus himself founded while on this earth, and that is HIS church. We are called by HIS name and live by the guidelines that he set forth through HIS Holy Scriptures. We give ALL Praise, Honor and Glory to Jesus. We are Catholic, for we are part of HIS Universal church:

I’m glad I wasn’t in the middle of drinking something when I read this!!

It still amazes me how we have to take all Protestants at their word that they were guided by the Holy Spirit (apparently just because they said so) and they were all guided by the same Holy Spirit to different “truths” on even the essentials of Christian belief. Give me a break.

 

[katewithak]

NonDenom:

Hi RR
The one big difference between our Minister and your Pope is that our Minister would never claim that he is infallable or that he is the one and only representitive of Christ on the earth, or as you call it, “The Vicor of Christ”. For a man to make the claim that he is in a sense “Christ on earth” in a grave mistake in my opinion.
Our Minister doesn’t want to be held up to such a high esteme, as does the Pope. I don’t go church shopping when I don’t agree with something my Minister believes. I have been at the same church since giving my life to the Lord eight years ago, And I don’t intend on leaving any time soon. I am part of the body of Christ, and that body has been around for almost 2000 years, so no my church is not a new one. The thing that I find most disturbing about most Catholics is that they talk about their church as if THEY own it. They talk about their Bible as if they own it. It is Christ’s church, HE owns it and desides who belongs, not you or any leader in your church. It’s all about Jesus and not some organization.
In Him and Him Only.

So you have a difficulty with the Pope being a Christ on earth. You are not alone. There were those who definately had a problem with Jesus being the Son of God- I believe that is why He was crucified. The thinking " How dare this man claim himself a Son of God, let’s crucify Him and place a more humble Barrabas/minister in his place", is simply not newsworthy, now is it?

 

[catsrus]

orignally posted by NonDenom
We are Catholic, for we are part of HIS Universal church:

Correction. Being part of “HIS universal church” would make you catholic. (small c)
Catholic (large C) makes you in communion with Rome which you are not.
BIG difference.
I see many posters here who claim to be “Catholic” in some protestant church. If they want to actually be Catholic, then they need to get themselves into a good RCIA program and become a Catholic.
Othwise, embrace you protestantism for what it is; a protest against The Catholic Church and stop referring to yourselves by what you are not.

 

[sea_oat]

Jabronie:

Oh no! You didn’t read the one where he reveals that the Eastern Orthodox are vampires did you!? :bigyikes:

Please please please don’t let that @#%$!% Chick influence you at all. If you read his stuff, laugh at it and pray for his soul. And just use a little bit of logic. Do you really believe that the Vatican planned WWII? Do you really believe that the Catholic Church assasinated Kennedy?

I will pray for you and anyone who falls for Chick’s lies.

No, like I explained earlier, I wasn’t bothered by the silly stuff; I was bothered by the more common claims, like the one that Catholicism is mixed with paganism.

 

[Milliardo]

sea oat:

No, like I explained earlier, I wasn’t bothered by the silly stuff; I was bothered by the more common claims, like the one that Catholicism is mixed with paganism.

Not really something to worry about; as with Easter and Christmas, we must realize that the Church is simply giving back to Christ what is due to Him. In other words, it is a victory of Christianity over paganism by taking what was pagan, and making it Christ’s own, since we do affirm Him to be the King of kings, and what’s more fitting than giving Him what is really His?

 

[ComradeAndrei]

No, like I explained earlier, I wasn’t bothered by the silly stuff; I was bothered by the more common claims, like the one that Catholicism is mixed with paganism.

He was just recycling the old Alexander Hislop and Ellen G. White propaganda.

What is so wrong with taking something from the pagan culture you just converted and consecrating it to Christ? These types of people suffer from the old puritan fussiness over foolish external issues while overlooking the BIG picture. They disapprove of using certain symbols as being sinful but then go and reject Christ’s Sacraments.

Kind of like the old addage against straining the gnat but swallowing the camel.

 

[TheRaiders]

NonDenom:

Hi
My mind was never restless about being a Christian. There are people in every church that willfully ignore the truth, even in your church. The church where I attend claims much less power than your church as we do not make all the claims of infallability that your leaders do, your leaders think that they can’t be wrong which in my opinion is very arrogant and prideful. The Catholic church has made changes through out history so to make a statement that it practices the faith of the first Christrians is wrong.
In Him and Only Him

NonDenom,
Something you must understand is that when someone becomes truly Catholic they give themselves over completely to everything the Catholic Church teaches. They do this because God has shown them it is safe to do so. So when they speak with pride about their Church it is not the kind of pride that bloats their own egos, but it is a genuin pride in what Jesus has handed down to them just as beautiful after 2000 years of world history that even the best historians can only grasp in small pieces.
Catholics do not pride themselves on being an exclusive group but want everyone to join. That is why we try to convince you. You must trust us that we have not found the Truth, only the source of Truth. Any time there is a question we have but to look it up. Time and time again the Church does not dissapiont us and so our faith grows.
The Church has not changed in that regard. People have changed, and cultures have changed. The Church has developed different ways to worship and adapted to the different cultures it has spread to. But historians will tell you this is the same Church that originaly spread Christianity and theologists will tell you we celebrate the same thing every Sunday when we come together. The Church has never contradicted itsself, and we say a Creed of faith that has been repeated in different languages since the earliest times. YOu should read it and see that there is not much for even a Non denom. Christian to dissagree with. Things have been added to our faith, but they are mostly things that are happening now, such as God giving Mary and the Saints a larger role since Biblical times.
That said, I truly believe your assertion that the Holy Spirit does not guide the Church Jesus founded, or even that Jesus did not found the Catholic Church is based on lies such as the kind Jack Chick rely upon. You mock the Cardinals for voting on the new Pope. If the Church cast lots would it be any less guided by the Holy spirit. The Apostles did this. Are you saying they, mere men should not have picked a successor to Judas? We Catholics must pick a successor for Peter and this is how the Cardinals do it. They base it on a priest’s merit, and also what the Church needs at that time. God uses them, sure, but it is not so much that an individual is guided by the Holy spirit so as not to err, but the Church itsself is. If it is God’s will that a Pope should only last half a year, it will be for the betterment of the Church. It is because of Him we have this Church, and it is in Him that we have pride.
Patrick