About your research of Jack's T. Chick tracts...

[TheRaiders]

Also, Catholics pray to saints, and we ask them to pray for us. Maybe the reason we have stopped saying “pray to Saints” is that people (both Catholic and Non-Catholic) have forgotten that the reason we pray to them is for them to pray for us, and add strength to our prayers. You might be hearing different things from different Catholics but it is all semantics in the end. With faith in Jesus comes faith in those who served Him best. And faith in the Saints is nothing less than recognizing why they are worthy praying to: “I am a humble, confused little son or daughter down here on earth, you are with God and He can do all things.” It wouldn’t make sense someone praying to a Saint in heaven if they didn’t already have faith in Christ as Saviour of the world, and belief in the Gospels. After all, it’s because of Jesus, and only after His Resurrection that humans other than the few in the Old Testament taken up bodilly even got into heaven. The rest were in Hell or in Abraham’s bosom (can you then deny there can be a temporary state for humans after death other than heaven and hell? Purgatory is similar, and possibly the same thing as Abraham’s bosom.)
So, we realise then, that faith in the Saints being in heaven is affirming Christ as saviour and for you Non Denom’s that is being saved right? So Catholics are saved too!
Only trouble is, Catholics know that they can loose salvation, as well as earn greater glory. They also know that even if they are saved, they must make up for sins while they have time, lest they risk finding out what Purgatory is like for a while before heaven.
Your Church may be good for you right now. But with no structure, how can you possibly with confidence fulfill God’s commandment of making disciples of all the nations as the Catholic Church has nearly done? Your church is for you. Here. Now. What about your children? How can you be sure that they have a good church to attend years down the road? Yours may last a while. It probably won’t. If it does, it will probably change its views on important points of faith depending on the current movements and who is in charge. How can you guys with confidence say you are handing someone the right articles of faith if you convert them from non-belief? Don’t say you only hand them the Bible because that is not true. You hand them truckloads of opinions and doctrines too, some of which have been invented very recently, some of which agree with the Catholic Church, and some that are your own.
God must have given us something more than that. He did, so I don’t have to worry about whether I am handing soemone the right faith, only the right knowledge of the faith.

 

[TheRaiders]

Non Denom, continued…That said, do you realize that if your very same Church was to go into a time warp tomorow you wouldn’t be able to teach the gospel? You are now placed 400 miles from Jerusalem in the year 115 AD. Historians will tell you vagabond churches like yours did not last. At the time of the death of Jesus the world was seeing an unprecedented sprouting of new religions and melding of old ones. I think the Devil tried to drown out the Gospel. The most convincing of these new religions were forms of Gnosticism, which claimed to have inspiration from all the great world religions and the answer to them all. They were ran by charismatic gurus. When the first ones found out about Christianity they salivated. They knew this was something more profound than all of them. So they mixed it with eastern religions and other forms of mysticism and paganism. The early Catholic Church at this time had to deal with this, and other many other heresy. The ONLY way someone in those days had ANY authority to teach was if they were an Apostle or had been ordained by one, or could prove a spiritual lineage to one. Chinese martial arts use this same method of lineage for ensuring that the true art form is preserved.
The early Church was a backwards thinking church in that it asked, what did our predescessors tell us. It was the structure that was an integral part to the Catholic Church conquering Rome with Jesus over Apollo, Zues, men, philosophers, gurus, persecutors, non-believing Jews, pharisees, King Herod and everyone else who hated the name Jesus Christ.
1-3rd century writers say a Christian community surviving persecution largely depended on whether the Bishop did not buckle under the pressure. Romans often went after the Bishops first for this reason. Structure.
The structure also ensured the religion would keep its mystique of not being made of man but from God. It ensured gurus could not take over. Orthodoxy was not just desired, but demanded. This is why we have a Bible we can trust and a faith that is True. God knew this, so Jesus chose only 12 of thousands of His followers to set apart to found the Church. If thousands had been given authority, imagine the chaos. Sure, they might be guided by the Holy Spirit but we all know men rarely fully listen to the Holy Spirit.
Patrick

 

[CreosMary]

** I realize that many people here have huge issues with this man, and his works. I have removed several blatant personal comments regarding him, and his personal relationship with God. I would caution each of you to remember, we are not in ANY position to judge the soul of this man. He deserves our prayers. **

Feel free to continue discussion his ACTIONS. But I ask that you refrain from making personal comments or judgements on his status as a christian.

Thank you-

May God bless

Eh? I respect your honour and the dear Christain but feeble principles you say.
basicaly Chick is a wanker! end of story
RCC spends much time repairing the damage he has done like a mechanic dealing with an arogant Volvo owner
God Bless

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

My post was merely to remind everyone to discuss/debate content vs. slinging derrogatory comments such as “wanker”.

There is nothing learned from these types of comments, and as this is the area of the Forum where those of non-Catholic religions come, we aught to provide those people with the best representation of Catholicism we can.

For instance there are those out there (Chick included) who say Catholics “damn people to hell”. Though Catholics do no such thing, some of the above comments alluded to that. Those of different cultures or spiritual backgrounds may not realize that a lot of it is tongue-in-cheek commentary.

So, rather than promote the false impression with “one liners”- why don’t we just provide good Catholic apologetic responses to Chick’s diatribes and to the comments from people who support Chick?

Peace-

Rachel

 

[Church_Militant]

NonDenom:

The one big difference between our Minister and your Pope is that our Minister would never claim that he is infallable or that he is the one and only representitive of Christ on the earth, or as you call it, “The Vicor of Christ”. For a man to make the claim that he is in a sense “Christ on earth” in a grave mistake in my opinion.

If this was true then perhaps Catholics would have a problem with it as well, but you have expressed a very limited and erroneous definition of the two things that you have brought up.

This is precisely why we keep telling you and many others that you do not really have any idea what you are talking about when you attempt to discuss the Catholic faith.

The term is Vicar of Christ and it is based upon the Word of God.
"A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: “Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep” (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19."Catholic Encyclopedia

Papal infallibility is something else that you clearly do not understand, or you would not make the remarks that you do concerning it. I find it far more believable than I do the idea that your personal interpretation of what the Word of God teaches is correct. The only reason that you attend the church that you do is because you feel that they are more in line with your thinking as to what the Bible says & means. This means that you are your own infallible interpreter of the Word of God, as you “feel” led by the Holy Spirit…regardless of whether your beliefs or understandings align with the context of the Bible or the writings of the early church who have left us abundant writings that offer confirming insights into what they believed as they were taught by the apostles.

Further Study

Our Minister doesn’t want to be held up to such a high esteme, as does the Pope.

You make an unfounded judgement of a man that you do not know and so far as I can tell do not care to know. Matthew 7:1-2.

I don’t go church shopping when I don’t agree with something my Minister believes. I have been at the same church since giving my life to the Lord eight years ago, And I don’t intend on leaving any time soon.

What do you disagree with that your pastor teaches?

I am part of the body of Christ, and that body has been around for almost 2000 years, so no my church is not a new one.

This is not true. I will wager that most of your church’s interpretation of doctrines cannot be traced back to the New Testament times, and that none of the leaders of your church can trace any sort of line back more than 50-100 years at best. You are “non-denominational”, which as a religious phenomena has not existed but a very short time and so far as I can tell has it’s roots in the 1960’s anti-establishment thinking. That certainly does not go back 2,000 years…

The thing that I find most disturbing about most Catholics is that they talk about their church as if THEY own it. They talk about their Bible as if they own it. It is Christ’s church, HE owns it and desides who belongs, not you or any leader in your church. It’s all about Jesus and not some organization.

As usual you show a lack of historical knowlege. As Catholics we feel a very strong connection to the church and to its long history. Where people like you tell us that your beliefs are the same as the early church’s, we Catholics have to wonder how that can be said with a straight face when we can (and regularly do) show you that what we believe is the same as the New Testament and the writings of the Christian Church for 2,000 years.

A couple of friends of mine wrote about it HERE.

When you say we talk about the Bible as if we own it, you react to the fact that in spite of what you have been taught, we have the weight of history that shows that the early church was Catholic in its teachings and exactly when the Bible as we Catholics have it today was canonized forever. History shows that the Bible had 73 books in it until the “reformers” came along and removed books in plain defiance of the cautions of the Word of God itself.

Oh, we know all too well that it’s Christ’s church. We also know what He said it took to be part of that church. That is why we’re Catholics.
Pax tecum,

 

[RCCDefender]

JSmitty2005:

I can’t believe anyone actually takes this guy seriously anymore! Catholics and Protestants alike recognize the absurdity of Chick’s tracts. I’m a college student at Pitt and get them here all the time. Here’s an example of how ridiculous Jack can be:

“IHS stands for Isis, Horus and Seb, the gods of Egypt.”


By the way, IHS is…

A monogram of the name of Jesus Christ. From the third century the names of our Saviour are sometimes shortened, particularly in Christian inscriptions… …and thus it became the emblem of his institute. IHS was sometimes wrongly understood as “Jesus Hominum (or Hierosolymae) Salvator”, i.e. Jesus, the Saviour of men (or of Jerusalem=Hierosolyma).

Okay, this is way, way, way off the subject, but I was in the Catholic bookstore the other day and saw a monogram that said HMH. The three letters were interlinked. Does this stand for Jesus, Mary, and Joseph?

 

[katewithak]

NonDenom:

Hi RR
There was no conflicting or splitting, it was a unanimous. I don’t believe however that is was unanimous in electing your new pope.
Which poses another question, if the Holy Spirit guides your leaders in the selection of a new pope, why is it not unanimous?
Do you think that the Holy Spirit would lead some of your leaders in one direction and others differently? Sorry I should probably start a new thread on that question. In fact I think I will.
Thank you
In Him and Onl Him./QUOTE

Ummm, could it be that people are less than happy with this selection of the Pope since they are not the ones doing the voting, God is?

 

[RCCDefender]

So, Rick, I could turn some things around on you, too.

For instance, where is the term “Altar Call” in the Bible? Where is the term “Trinity” in the Bible? Furthermore, where is the term “Bible” in the Bible?

 

[pnewton]

sea oat,

Long time, no post. Sorry it took so long to get back here.

You expressed concern over prayer to the dead being contact with the dead that was prohibited in the Old Testament. What you are referring to is the practice of necromancy, which means something a lot different. That is divining the dead spirits to reveal your future and fortune. We can also do the same thing with the living. It’s called sorcery. Both are condemned as evil

The more apt comparison of asking a brother or minister (someone we consider holy than us) to pray for us is all we are doing. What preacher has ever stood by greating his congregation streaming out on a Sunday that man has not had several stop and ask for his prayers for this or that situation?

Yet Jesus is our one mediator. We still seek not only the prayers of others, but of others we consider holy. How much more holy can one get than to leave all this world’s evil and be before the face of God?

Now the better question is, “Can this really happen?” You know the passage in Revelation which contains the basis of this teaching, But that by itself would not be too convincing if not for the teaching authority of the Church.

So like most other doctrines, the question comes down to authority. Either Jesus left a church with authority or He did not. But the question about prayers to the saints is not unbiblical or biblically provable. It is just not purely biblical. It’s alluded to, but still needs the Church’s authority to make the case.

 

[Malachi4U]

Rick-Xto:

wow. I have just read something in the CA homepage about what catholics believe and I can say this is not new for me, I have been studying this at least one year, and this anwers just are human interpretation of the God’s Word, and there’s no need for this long explanation for the simple understandable words of our Lord.

Gods peace be with you theophilus Xto,

So, if God’s word is so easy to understand why are there 20 - 40,000 Protestant sects with each one haveing an opinion that is different then the others? If we have one God and one Church and God has one Word and His Word never changes then why so many sects? If Gods Word is so “simple” then why did the 12 apostles spend three years with Jesus and still ask Him questions about what He meant when He spoke? (Could it be they didn’t read the King James Bible or have one?) When did Jesus tell us to believe whatever we want to? I thought Jesus said to follow and obey Him?

So, when did Jesus write the Bible for us? When did He give it to us? Who did He tell to write it? Who has the authority to write and edit it? How many books does it have in it? Who preserved it for you? Does a president or dictator have a right to write one and force their citizens to use it? A bisexual king like James? Did you study where we got the Bible BEFORE you just picked one up and started to read it? Is your Bible a Mormon KJV? Did Luther have a right to delete books of the Bible? Do the publishers of your KJV have a right to leave out 7+ books? To rewrite it to fit their tehology? To rewrite it to market to certain Protestant sects? To re-word it so they can get a patent regardless of the truth? Are ALL Bibles equal? Which ones are better then the others? Would you use a Jehovah Witness Bible?

Do you believe what the early Christians believed? What year and who invented what you believe? Why?

Xto, we do not judge you, we’re Catholics and do not do that, we do however witness our Faith to you, the Faith Jesus gave us and commanded us to obey and preserve.

You sound like a very good Christian and I’m shure you love Jesus - I know He loves you. But you can only be in the fullness of Gods Grace on earth by being in His Catholic body.

Read Jn 6 and tell me the Eucharist is only ‘symbolic?’ Read 1 Cor 10 and 11 and tell me they believed it was only symbolic? Tell me the early Christians believed it only symbolic for hundreds of years BEFORE we had a Bible? In Jn 6 you will see where the first followers (i.e. Christians) left Jesus. The first followers to leave Jesus left Him over the Eucharist. It’s no suprize then that they still leave His Catholic body for the same reason. The Apostles knew Jesus meant the bread and wine turned to His Body and Blood, so should you.

(please for some answers for my post: can you stop judging?)

see you!

I’m not judgeing you and I don’t see others doing it either. We are “simply” shareing the Word of God with you as it was handed down by Jesus, not a bisexual King.

A prisoner of Christ,

 

[maryalene]

Did Rick leave us?

 

[Rick-Xto]

Hi! sorry about my absence. God bless you all!

The reason I just decided not to reply again is that I don’t like to argue about the Word of God.

But I guess I can’t just quit. I have to say many things.

First of all, I don’t know how to call the compiled pages of the Word of God, someone told me once when I was a kid, that the name of it is “Bible”. I don’t tell the people things like: you need to read the Bible to be saved or talking about the Bible as a book with infability. Bacause I clearly know is only a book…, but I refer to this book cause it has the content I need to learn.

I don’t like to argue because is not my mission, I have another one.

I do know that Words written in that book helped me a lot. I never took it and said “Now I have a weapon against Catholics” I never thought about that. I took it cause I have a mother that really loves me and told me that it was good for me to read those pages so,I just gave it a chance.

There are some dramatic ways people uses to express what they believe. I just want to say to you that Jesus loves you so much, and I don’t care what you think about the doctrines related to spllitted Church, cause you have your own relationship with God and He knows your heart. I just can tell you what God has made with my life, and I’m happy with that.

I’m not identified with any christian denomination I’m just christian… and I want to share my experience with my christian brothers.

I wan’t to tell you this cause this discussion leads to no place, is neverending and I don’t like as I said “argue with Jesus’s topics”

I’ve read so many post with “out of place” things, thats why the moderator asked to rearrange your comments. I have to say, I didn’t think that I was about to read that kind of replies.

I didn’t know that king James was bisexual (don’t know if that’s true or not) but as I can read it says the same that my spanish version says, I don’t know if they were bisexuals also “Reina & Valera” (this is a sarcastic comment from me. please don’t take it too seriusly).

Well I just want to end it (cause I really don’t want to use my arguments again, since, leads to no end) with this:

If I’m wrong or you are, God will reveal the truth to you or me.

But me, I’m gonna keep on doing my work about telling people that Jesus loves them and how He saved my life and wants to save their lifes too.

Thanks for your time!
May God blees you so much.

 

[adrift]

Rick-Xto:

I want to say: I did not use the word symbolic. We do this Supper as something real, the symbolic part was the word’s Jesus used talking about his flesh and blood in his last Supper

Entonces Tomó pan, y habiendo dado gracias, lo Partió y les dio diciendo: --Esto es mi cuerpo que por vosotros es dado. Haced esto en memoria de Mí.

It is plain what Jesus said

Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.”

To say that Jesus when talking about his flesh and blood is talking symbolically is not taking the plain meaning of the text but is an interputation.

 

[Will_Pick]

Rick-Xto:

My God!! what are you talking about? I had to listen people to learn the things, you can’t learn by yourself God’s will, but you should have a personal relationship with the Lord.

Well I’m chrsitian because I’m triying to follow the way of Jesuschrist, I go to the church of course! but not a catholic one, I go to one in where you call yourself christian because you have received Jesuschrist in your life and born again (writen in John 3:1-16)

About catholic beliefs, I can start with this: (I will use the Bible with no interpretation just what it says clearly)

• In the Catholic church exist hierarchy right? (Pope, Cardinal, Archbishope, Bishop, Priest, Deacon) then… have you read Mark chapter ten?

Eucharist? can someone help me search for that word in the Bible? (the same with the word catholic, pope, and some others)–BTW you forgot Trinity and alter calls,grape juice and the sinner’s prayer.

The virgin Mary not having normal wife-husband encounters with Joseph?? (Mathew 1:25)

and Mary being a mediator between God and us?? only can make someone thinks that Jesuschrist’s sacrifice was not enought (1 Timothy 2:5) (John 14:13-14, 16:23-24)

Eucharist? can someone help me search for that word in the Bible? (the same with the word catholic, pope, and some others)

If you read David’s life and Psalms you will understand the “Jesus doesn’t like religion” and of course the Gospel sets it clear.

The pope, head of the church? (Please read Ephesians 1:22, 5-23 and Colossians 1:18)

This are just examples.

There is more… I’ll gladly post them if you want.

God bless you all!

Eucharist? can someone help me search for that word in the Bible? (the same with the word catholic, pope, and some others)–BTW you forgot Trinity and alter calls,grape juice and the sinner’s prayer.

 

[PaulDupre]

The word “bible” also does not appear in the bible.

The bit about whether the Pope is the head of the Church is just a red herring. No Catholic claims that the Pope is the head of the Church. That distinction belongs to Jesus alone. The Pope is “The Vicar of Christ on Earth”. The word “Vicar” means representitive.