Absence of identity after death and resurrection

[Bahman]

Identity is simply a set of collective knowledge about who we are. This knowledge is stored inside our brains. This knowledge is gone upon death hence the soul of a dead person does not have any identity. This implements that all soul do look like each other hence there is a problem in resurrection and judgement.

Your thought?

 

[paduard]

Identity is simply a set of collective knowledge about who we are. This knowledge is stored inside our brains. This knowledge is gone upon death hence the soul of a dead person does not have any identity. This implements that all soul do look like each other hence there is a problem in resurrection and judgement.

Your thought?

You should have prefixed ‘This knowledge is gone’ by “If”.

paduard

 

[Bahman]

You should have prefixed ‘This knowledge is gone’ by “If”.

paduard

I didn’t get what do you mean.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I didn’t get what do you mean.

You’re making assumptions about the Resurrection which are not supported by Biblical texts. You are assuming that our knowledge will be gone, but have nothing on which to base that assumption.

In fact, the collective writings of Catholic theologians, mystics, and people who’ve had near-death experiences point to the opposite being true. Instead of our knowledge being gone, it will be complete, and reach its pinnacle in the presence of God. Rather than seeing our “identities” vanish, we will see them brought to their fullest potential.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

You’re making assumptions about the Resurrection which are not supported by Biblical texts. You are assuming that our knowledge will be gone, but have nothing on which to base that assumption.

In fact, the collective writings of Catholic theologians, mystics, and people who’ve had near-death experiences point to the opposite being true. Instead of our knowledge being gone, it will be complete, and reach its pinnacle in the presence of God. Rather than seeing our “identities” vanish, we will see them brought to their fullest potential.

I agree with you 100%, for reasons I can’t go into here, i.e. forum rules.

 

[Bahman]

You’re making assumptions about the Resurrection which are not supported by Biblical texts. You are assuming that our knowledge will be gone, but have nothing on which to base that assumption.

In fact, the collective writings of Catholic theologians, mystics, and people who’ve had near-death experiences point to the opposite being true. Instead of our knowledge being gone, it will be complete, and reach its pinnacle in the presence of God. Rather than seeing our “identities” vanish, we will see them brought to their fullest potential.

But soul is shapeless and cannot hold information which requires shape.

 

[dmar198]

But soul is shapeless and cannot hold information which requires shape.

“Information requires shape” – in one sense maybe, in another sense, no it doesn’t. Whatever sense information requires shape is a sense in which our spirits can hold it.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

But soul is shapeless and cannot hold information which requires shape.

Why?

I not even joking here. Can you provide a single rational reason for your assertion?

There is absolutely no reason to think that our souls are either shapeless or incapable of holding information. (They certainly lack a physical form, but that is not the same thing as shapeless in a metaphysical sense.) Bahaman, as usual, you are pulling these assumptions out of nowhere. Have you learned nothing in your four thousand posts about how to debate and what the minimum standard for a rational argument is?

The number one rule is that your argument needs to be logical. This statement doesn’t qualify because it lacks any foundation or reason for it to be true. It is merely an assertion, and an assertion is not an argument. Assertions simply state something, arguments use a series of claims, all of which should have solid foundations in logic, to arrive a conclusion.

 

[Bahman]

“Information requires shape” – in one sense maybe, in another sense, no it doesn’t. Whatever sense information requires shape is a sense in which our spirits can hold it.

What is spirit?

 

[Lily_Bernans]

But soul is shapeless and cannot hold information which requires shape.

Information doesn’t require shape!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Why?

I not even joking here. Can you provide a single rational reason for your assertion?

There is absolutely no reason to think that our souls are either shapeless or incapable of holding information. (They certainly lack a physical form, but that is not the same thing as shapeless in a metaphysical sense.) Bahaman, as usual, you are pulling these assumptions out of nowhere. Have you learned nothing in your four thousand posts about how to debate and what the minimum standard for a rational argument is?

The number one rule is that your argument needs to be logical. This statement doesn’t qualify because it lacks any foundation or reason for it to be true. It is merely an assertion, and an assertion is not an argument. Assertions simply state something, arguments use a series of claims, all of which should have solid foundations in logic, to arrive a conclusion.

You are 100% right.

 

[GEddie]

Bahman, amigo,

Even if what you originally claimed is true re: the soul not being able to hold information, (but, since the soul generates the mind, that’s one thing it **can **do); “after resurrection” you will again have your head. So there would be no problem.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Bahman]

Why?

I not even joking here. Can you provide a single rational reason for your assertion?

There is absolutely no reason to think that our souls are either shapeless or incapable of holding information. (They certainly lack a physical form, but that is not the same thing as shapeless in a metaphysical sense.)

First, there is strong evidences that knowledge and information are hold inside brain. Just look at aged people or people who has brain injury. They wouldn’t lose their identity if their souls were holding the information. Second, soul is shapeless as a result of what is discussed since otherwise people with brain problem could remember their identity.

Bahaman, as usual, you are pulling these assumptions out of nowhere. Have you learned in your four thousand posts about how to debate and what the minimum standard for a rational argument is?

You are rushing in your judgment.

The number one rule is that your argument needs to be logical. This statement doesn’t qualify because it lacks any foundation or reason for it to be true. It is merely an assertion, and an assertion is not an argument. Assertions simply state something, arguments use a series of claims, all of which should have solid foundations in logic, to arrive a conclusion.

Lets see how our discussion follows.

 

[Bahman]

Information doesn’t require shape!

It does, otherwise we didn’t need a brain. Holding information in fact is the result of wiring inside our brain hence information is even physical entity. Otherwise we didn’t need book, Internet, computer, etc for transferring and holding information.

 

[jcwit]

Do we not say in our Creed

I believe in the resurrection of the body.

 

[Bahman]

Bahman, amigo,

Even if what you originally claimed is true re: the soul not being able to hold information, (but, since the soul generates the mind, that’s one thing it **can **do); “after resurrection” you will again have your head. So there would be no problem.

ICXC NIKA

First, how God could judge a soul when there is no identity. Second, God might give your head to my soul and vice versa accepting the fact that all soul look like each other upon death. Who cares? This is really very ironic concept.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

First, there is strong evidences that knowledge and information are hold inside brain. Just look at aged people or people who has brain injury. They wouldn’t lose their identity if their souls were holding the information. Second, soul is shapeless as a result of what is discussed since otherwise people with brain problem could remember their identity.

The brain-soul interaction is something which cannot be studied, and memory is something which science has been unable to explain, as is the sensation of "self.’ If memory and the self are stored in the soul, brain damage may only be preventing the proper expression or access of such things. This is analogous to a damaged CPU in a computer. The hard drives (memory and self stored in the soul) may be working just fine; but if the motherboard (brain) is damaged there is no way to access the hard drives. To those outside the computer, it just looks like the hard drives are gone; but from within the computer we know that the hard drives are just there and are fine, just inaccessible.

Your second point about the soul being shapeless is probably the biggest non-sequitur you’ve ever made, and that’s saying something. Why would brain damage prove that the soul (an immaterial object) is “shapeless” in a metaphysical sense? Short answer, it wouldn’t. Furthermore, there’s no reason that “having shape” would be a prerequisite for identity or memory.

You are rushing in your judgment.

Bahaman, you’ve been doing the same thing for the last… two… or is it three years now? I am doing anything but rushing to judgement.

Lets see how our discussion follows.

No thanks, I learned long ago that debating with you is pointless, and I’m at work now and need to focus. I hope your discussion with others proves fruitful for you.

 

[GEddie]

First, how God could judge a soul when there is no identity. Second, God might give your head to my soul and vice versa accepting the fact that all soul look like each other upon death. Who cares? This is really very ironic concept.

“Looking” is a misnomer. Souls do not look like anything, as they do not reflect light; only the skin of bodies does.

It doesn’t matter what a soul (doesn’t) look like. Like a key in a lock, (or a card in a modern lock), each soul is “coded” to only one body. My mind won’t “fit” in your head, and vice versa.

PS, while our minds reside in our heads, our soul fills the whole body, being the life.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Who cares?

Evidently you do, as you have posted on this issue and similarly again and again. Or are you truly uninterested in answers and just trying to rattle everybody’s chain?

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

First, how God could judge a soul when there is no identity. Second, God might give your head to my soul and vice versa accepting the fact that all soul look like each other upon death. Who cares? This is really very ironic concept.

Where’s love? Does it have a heart shape? Do those with diseased hearts have a failure to love completely?

No.