Absence of identity after death and resurrection

[Bahman]

The brain-soul interaction is something which cannot be studied, and memory is something which science has been unable to explain, as is the sensation of "self.’

First, there is no interaction between soul and body. They just
form a union. How physical could interact with spiritual? Second, memory is stored through wiring inside the brain.

If memory and the self are stored in the soul, brain damage may only be preventing the proper expression or access of such things. This is analogous to a damaged CPU in a computer. The hard drives (memory and self stored in the soul) may be working just fine; but if the motherboard (brain) is damaged there is no way to access the hard drives. To those outside the computer, it just looks like the hard drives are gone; but from within the computer we know that the hard drives are just there and are fine, just inaccessible.

This is inconsistent with your first post when you claim that “In fact, the collective writings of Catholic theologians, mystics, and people who’ve had near-death experiences point to the opposite being true.” since a dead brain does not function at all if a damaged brain does not.

Your second point about the soul being shapeless is probably the biggest non-sequitur you’ve ever made, and that’s saying something. Why would brain damage prove that the soul (an immaterial object) is “shapeless” in a metaphysical sense? Short answer, it wouldn’t.

It is not. In fact it makes sense. If shape is needed for storing information then a shapeless soul cannot store information.

Furthermore, there’s no reason that “having shape” would be a prerequisite for identity or memory.

There are strong evidence that we need shape for transferring and storing information, such as book, our brains, computers. Can you provide a example to support your idea?

Bahaman, you’ve been doing the same thing for the last… two… or is it three years now? I am doing anything but rushing to judgement.

No thanks, I learned long ago that debating with you is pointless, and I’m at work now and need to focus. I hope your discussion with others proves fruitful for you.

You were same too. Leaving the discussion in middle part.

 

[dmar198]

What is spirit?

Spirit is nonmaterial stuff. Angels and the mind are spiritual, and God is spiritual in a way that no creature is.

 

[Bahman]

“Looking” is a misnomer. Souls do not look like anything, as they do not reflect light; only the skin of bodies does.

It doesn’t matter what a soul (doesn’t) look like. Like a key in a lock, (or a card in a modern lock), each soul is “coded” to only one body. My mind won’t “fit” in your head, and vice versa.

You need shape for soul so soul can play the role of a key which it doesn’t.

PS, while our minds reside in our heads, our soul fills the whole body, being the life.

ICXC NIKA

So you are supporting the idea that soul has shape? What is point of this shape if it could not minimally hold the identity and memory of our lives. Identity together with memory are the most important aspect of our lives.

 

[Bahman]

Evidently you do, as you have posted on this issue and similarly again and again. Or are you truly uninterested in answers and just trying to rattle everybody’s chain?

ICXC NIKA.

I am so sorry if my post had such an effect on you. I am just looking for my answers which sometimes I find it by you and another time by discussing with you. Until now I couldn’t find my answer so I am just struggling.

 

[Bahman]

Where’s love?

Feeling love like other emotions is the result of releasing some hormone inside your blood stream. This affects brain and soul. Soul just apparently experience it or the feeling is the result of firing.

Does it have a heart shape?

Feeling love apparently needs that very specific set of neurons fire in very specific way. I don’t honestly know if the feeling is the result of firing or is the result of experience by soul!

Do those with diseased hearts have a failure to love completely?

There are people with mental problem who could not feel love.

No.

What do you mean?

 

[Bahman]

Spirit is nonmaterial stuff. Angels and the mind are spiritual, and God is spiritual in a way that no creature is.

This doesn’t answer my question.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Identity is simply a set of collective knowledge about who we are. This knowledge is stored inside our brains. This knowledge is gone upon death hence the soul of a dead person does not have any identity. This implements that all soul do look like each other hence there is a problem in resurrection and judgement.

Your thought?

Ok, continuing with quantum physics and the two slit experiment. It has been shown repeatedly, that what we call the present can change what we call the past. Whoa! This implies that the past does not cease to exist, but that it continues to exist. This has been observed, but thus far cannot be explained entirely with science.

Your premise here, relies on understanding the past as something in a continuous flow, that ceases to exist once the past is, well, past.

This shows that you are not consistent in your ideas of, time not existing, as you are relying here, on time (as we know it) existing.

Would you like to reaccess?

 

[Bookcat]

Identity is simply a set of collective knowledge about who we are. This knowledge is stored inside our brains. This knowledge is gone upon death hence the soul of a dead person does not have any identity. This implements that all soul do look like each other hence there is a problem in resurrection and judgement.

Your thought?

Our thought - such is simply an erroneous notion. The person does have an identity and there is no problem with resurrection and judgment. Your simply starting with false premises and such are not ours - we are Christians and we do not accept such false notions.

And I do not plan to discuss further - one may see the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see what we profess.

A splendid day to you!

 

[Kurisu35712]

First, there is strong evidences that knowledge and information are hold inside brain. Just look at aged people or people who has brain injury. They wouldn’t lose their identity if their souls were holding the information. Second, soul is shapeless as a result of what is discussed since otherwise people with brain problem could remember their identity.

You have given literally no evidence for this being the case. As this seems to be what your entire argument hinges on, yet you have given no evidence, I do not believe you. I disagree that what you have said is fact. It is not fact. I claim that humans do retain their memories, yet in cases of brain injury are physically prevented from expressing this. Thus there is an illusion that they do not remember, when they actually do and can’t tell us. Our souls are shapeless, but they are the generator of the information in our brain. When our brain is damaged, our soul provides information, but our brain is unable to relay it.

You can disagree, but I doubt you could prove me wrong, seeing as you’ve given no proof that your assertion is any more correct than mine.

 

[hasantas]

What is spirit?

Spirit is one law of God which has an essence, life, the conscious and all senses. You have self invalid standarts to discuss and sometimes you ignore all people. But I will try.

What is death? The death is aparting and spliting of soul from body. Death is not just through biological death. If soul get out of body then it is impossible to animate body again. And if the life had been just through energy then it would must be possible to breath dead body again but it impossible. Life, mind and all senses are product of soul but not body or energy. The source of life and conscious is not energy or biological activities in body. Soul has life, mind, senses when it is out of body. So life and all senses are attributions of soul but not product of energy through biological reactions. Soul can live without body and soul can see without eyes and soul can hold knowledges without brain etc. Well what is about body?

Through body soul can interact with material and through interaction with material soul can suffer or get pleasure or learn more. Body and soul are very telescoped and every acts of soul happened through parts of body. Hearing is through ears and seeing is through eyes and learning is through brain etc. But body does not hear or see or learn yet soul see or hear or learn. Ofcourse there are signs and reactions of learning of soul in body and brain but learning or seeing or feeling are not biological or material reactions indeed but moraly. For instance computers run by energy but computers do not see or hear or feel or learn etc. Seeing is through eyes but eyes are windows for soul and soul can see without eyes.

All experiences and knowledges are hold in soul and soul take them through body and there are signs of actions of soul in body.

 

[Bahman]

Our thought - such is simply an erroneous notion. The person does have an identity and there is no problem with resurrection and judgment. Your simply starting with false premises and such are not ours - we are Christians and we do not accept such false notions.

And I do not plan to discuss further - one may see the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see what we profess.

A splendid day to you!

What is the false premises?

 

[Bahman]

You have given literally no evidence for this being the case. As this seems to be what your entire argument hinges on, yet you have given no evidence, I do not believe you. I disagree that what you have said is fact. It is not fact. I claim that humans do retain their memories, yet in cases of brain injury are physically prevented from expressing this. Thus there is an illusion that they do not remember, when they actually do and can’t tell us. Our souls are shapeless, but they are the generator of the information in our brain. When our brain is damaged, our soul provides information, but our brain is unable to relay it.

You can disagree, but I doubt you could prove me wrong, seeing as you’ve given no proof that your assertion is any more correct than mine.

We memorise information which is a physical thing hence you need a physical thing for memorising which is brain. Information is physical because we use physical thing to store and transfer them such as book, computer, Internet, etc.

 

[Bahman]

What is death? The death is aparting and spliting of soul from body. Death is not just through biological death. If soul get out of body then it is impossible to animate body again. And if the life had been just through energy then it would must be possible to breath dead body again but it impossible. Life, mind and all senses are product of soul but not body or energy. The source of life and conscious is not energy or biological activities in body. Soul has life, mind, senses when it is out of body. So life and all senses are attributions of soul but not product of energy through biological reactions. Soul can live without body and soul can see without eyes and soul can hold knowledges without brain etc. Well what is about body?

Through body soul can interact with material and through interaction with material soul can suffer or get pleasure or learn more. Body and soul are very telescoped and every acts of soul happened through parts of body. Hearing is through ears and seeing is through eyes and learning is through brain etc. But body does not hear or see or learn yet soul see or hear or learn. Of course there are signs and reactions of learning of soul in body and brain but learning or seeing or feeling are not biological or material reactions indeed but moraly. For instance computers run by energy but computers do not see or hear or feel or learn etc. Seeing is through eyes but eyes are windows for soul and soul can see without eyes.

All experiences and knowledges are hold in soul and soul take them through body and there are signs of actions of soul in body.

Soul cannot directly interact with matter so soul cannot see, store information, etc. It is through union of body and soul that we are allowed to experience things, express ourself, etc.

 

[hasantas]

Soul cannot directly interact with matter so soul cannot see, store information, etc. It is through union of body and soul that we are allowed to experience things, express ourself, etc.

Angels have no material body but they can see or have knowledges?

 

[Bahman]

Angels have no material body but they can see or have knowledges?

I am sorry but I have never seen an angel!

 

[hasantas]

I am sorry but I have never seen an angel!

You neither see soul so do not talk much about spirit!

 

[Bahman]

You neither see soul so do not talk much about spirit!

That is true. I have never fully accepted soul too. The only things that we are sure is that we experience. But our experience can only be the result of neurons firing. What is the truth? Who knows?

 

[hasantas]

That is true. I have never fully accepted soul too. The only things that we are sure is that we experience. But our experience can only be the result of neurons firing. What is the truth? Who knows?

Energy is not moral and all senses are moraly. For instance computer cannot decide to start a operation by itself. It need a program for every operation which fixed by human. Or computer cannot be happy or sorry, etc. If you say human run with biological energy? The main source of energy is Sun but there is no life in it. And it cause chemical and physical and biological reactions in body. Neural system run by those reactions. Notice that all reactions are material but not morally. And senses are not material. Even energy itself is one kind law of God. But energy has no conscious or life.

 

[GEddie]

Energy is not moral and all senses are moraly. For instance computer cannot decide to start a operation by itself. It need a program for every operation which fixed by human. Or computer cannot be happy or sorry, etc. If you say human run with biological energy? The main source of energy is Sun but there is no life in it. And it cause chemical and physical and biological reactions in body. Neural system run by those reactions. Notice that all reactions are material but not morally. And senses are not material. Even energy itself is one kind law of God. But energy has no conscious or life.

**Life **is a process of energy in the same way that energy is a process of matter.

Mind is a process of life, as life is a process of energy…etc.

Without life, there can be no mind.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Kurisu35712]

We memorise information which is a physical thing hence you need a physical thing for memorising which is brain. Information is physical because we use physical thing to store and transfer them such as book, computer, Internet, etc.

That’s patently false and you have provided no real argument to support that. Your logic does not follow.