Absence of Moral Authority in the Church

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In light of the most recent case of Priest sexual abuse in Chicago, today’s Chicago Tribune editor wrote an article regarding the absence of moral authority in the Catholic Church. The article is so very depressing… mostly because there is truth to what’s being said. I just wonder how long this is going to continue… and how long the excuses are going to be made?

chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0603270172mar27,1,7081155.story

Your thoughts?
 
Dennis Byrne is getting at something important worth noting, but he comes up weak in his approach and the details of questioning matters. Tom Roeser does a much better job in the article entitled Clohessy, available at his blog under the 3/23 entry:

tomroeser.com/

BTW, it seems that access to the Byrne article has expired. It is available, however, at his website:

dennisbyrne.blogspot.com/
 
First, look at the title of the thread (which came from the article).
If one simply looks at the way the Church is treated in the MSM in regards to any moral stands (as the San Francisco thread illustrates), this is exactly what the elites of the secular culture want…the Church to lose her moral authority.
Yes, we all know that most, if not all, dioceses had priests who abused minors and bishops who played chess with those priests. It was and is wrong, it was and is sinful. True victims must be tended to.
What has the Church done? Commissioned the John Jay study on the abuse and another, forthcoming, on the causes as well as the Vatican seminary visitations.
Perfect? Absoluutely not, but not deserving of the press that it got and the extension of statutes of limitations exclusively for allegations against priests.
Okay, so check this out
newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/5/01552.shtml
Then look at this
ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.doc

Especially this from the above link:
Two recent series, one in the Dallas Morning News (Jennings and Tharp, May 2003) and the other in the Seattle Times (Willmsen and O’Hagan, December 2003), examined educator sexual misconduct in their respective states. Jennings and Tharp focused on 606 cases of educator sexual misconduct from Texas State Board of Educator Certification records and Willmsen and O’Hagan targeted abuse by coaches. In both instances, reporters commented on the difficulty of obtaining information on educator sexual misconduct. O’Hagan and Willmsen (Dec. 14, 2003) write:

When the Seattle Times asked the Bellevue School District for information about teachers and coaches accused of sexual misconduct, school officials and the state’s most powerful union teamed up behind the scenes to try to hide the files. Bellevue school officials even let teachers purge their own records at union-organized “file parties” to prevent disclosure.

So when the MSM reports on the “pedophile priests,” it’s not the Church that has lost authority, it is the media that has lost credibility.
Judas will always reside in the Church. But the gates of hell will not prevail against it—from the outside or from the inside.
“Don’t leave Jesus because of Judas.”
And if anybody has time to follow all those studies from the second link, remember, that’s not even the tip of the iceburg
 
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Strider:
So when the MSM reports on the “pedophile priests,” it’s not the Church that has lost authority, it is the media that has lost credibility
And yet Dennis Byrne is generally thought of as a more conservative, pro-life outsider type commentator in contrast to what is typically disparaged as “Main Stream Media”. Which is what makes his approach here both intriguing and puzzling.
 
Who is the Church? Think about it? We (all of us Catholics) have lost our moral authority because we have stood silent and even participated in some bad stuff including contraception and abortion. We have voted poorly in elections. What should we have expected?
 
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buffalo:
Who is the Church? Think about it? We (all of us Catholics) have lost our moral authority because we have stood silent and even participated in some bad stuff including contraception and abortion. We have voted poorly in elections. What should we have expected?
You’re absolutely right.
 
When we start blaming the problems in the church on the bias of the mainstream media we look foolish.

This anti-Catholic bias just doesn’t exist…Catholics have risen quite high in a vareity of public and private sectors for me to believe that there is a wide ranging anti-Catholic bias…at least not one that anyone takes even somewhat seriously.

We can’t continue to say things like “There are pedophile public school teachers and no one picks on them”.

It is because of the expected moral authority of the church that people are more let down when we show we probably don’t deserve that authority.

This hasn’t happened becasue we voted poorly or were ok with contraception…the current state of things happened because of an insulated culture of clerics who believed that because they had hands layed on them they were somehow not to be held to the same standard as everybody else. Many of our bishops failed to see what their actions were doing…consequently we have the problems now that we have today.

The moral authority of the church will continue to exist. But the ability of the church to say “Father said so” or “The Bishop said so” is no longer as present as it once was. We have to preach and teach the Law of Jesus as something that liberates us…not binds us.
 
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frommi:
When we start blaming the problems in the church on the bias of the mainstream media we look foolish.

This anti-Catholic bias just doesn’t exist…Catholics have risen quite high in a vareity of public and private sectors for me to believe that there is a wide ranging anti-Catholic bias…at least not one that anyone takes even somewhat seriously.

We can’t continue to say things like “There are pedophile public school teachers and no one picks on them”.

It is because of the expected moral authority of the church that people are more let down when we show we probably don’t deserve that authority.

This hasn’t happened becasue we voted poorly or were ok with contraception…the current state of things happened because of an insulated culture of clerics who believed that because they had hands layed on them they were somehow not to be held to the same standard as everybody else. Many of our bishops failed to see what their actions were doing…consequently we have the problems now that we have today.

The moral authority of the church will continue to exist. But the ability of the church to say “Father said so” or “The Bishop said so” is no longer as present as it once was. We have to preach and teach the Law of Jesus as something that liberates us…not binds us.
This might be a good read for you - The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice
 
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frommi:
When we start blaming the problems in the church on the bias of the mainstream media we look foolish.

This anti-Catholic bias just doesn’t exist…Catholics have risen quite high in a vareity of public and private sectors for me to believe that there is a wide ranging anti-Catholic bias…at least not one that anyone takes even somewhat seriously.

We can’t continue to say things like “There are pedophile public school teachers and no one picks on them”.

It is because of the expected moral authority of the church that people are more let down when we show we probably don’t deserve that authority.

This hasn’t happened becasue we voted poorly or were ok with contraception…the current state of things happened because of an insulated culture of clerics who believed that because they had hands layed on them they were somehow not to be held to the same standard as everybody else. Many of our bishops failed to see what their actions were doing…consequently we have the problems now that we have today.

The moral authority of the church will continue to exist. But the ability of the church to say “Father said so” or “The Bishop said so” is no longer as present as it once was. We have to preach and teach the Law of Jesus as something that liberates us…not binds us.
I never said the MSM should not report on the abuse of minors by priests and the protetection of those priests by bishops, but anyone who says anti-Catholic bias doesn’t exist is just not seeing clearly.
The extreme over-reporting of the abuse by priests can be partly explained by the very nature of priests, but why do Protestant ministers and public school teachers and coaches get a pass for the same behavior and very nearly the public trust?
Yes, individual Catholics have experienced success, but the loathing the cultural elites hold for the firm moral stand of the Church on abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, homosexual “marriage” and other faith and morals issues is obvious, blatant and deep.
And to say that “Joe does it, too,” is not the point. The point is that the inexcusable abuse in the Church, less than 5% of priests, has been made to sound much worse than it is while the same behavior at much higher rates in public schools is ignored is further evidence of the disgust some in our culture hold for the
Church. It’s even worse when the victims of this abuse are completely ignored in the process.
And the perception of abuse by priests is magnified, but the point that the John Jay study brings out, that over 80% of the victims of priests were young post-pubescent males, which points to the problem of homosexuals in the priesthood – eliminating them is another stand of the Church that the cultural elites hate, even though it addresses the very problem they’ve been gleefully reporting for years.
And as for standing by or participating in bad stuff," speak for yourself. I am a pro-life speaker and writer and, though I live in a liberal area, I do my best to support pro-life politicians.
The secular culture despizes the Catholic Church because of her strong, unchanging moral stands. Given that, the priest abuse situation was a weapon the Church shouldn’t have handed to them.
Please tell me who is trying to avoid responsibility, here? I may not agree with everything the USCCB has done, but at least they have faced the problem squarely and taken action. All I’m asking for is fair treatment, knowing full well I’m not going to get it.
 
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frommi:
The moral authority of the church will continue to exist. But the ability of the church to say “Father said so” or “The Bishop said so” is no longer as present as it once was. We have to preach and teach the Law of Jesus as something that liberates us…not binds us.
The irony being that this may be a good thing; a genuine blessing in disguise.
 
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frommi:
What makes you think i havent read it?

Is there prejudice in society…yeah there is.

Should we use that as an excuse to avoid accounatibility for what ails us…no we should not
If you have read it then you refuse to believe the authors claim. This might be a great poll question.

Have you or someone you know been the victim of anti-Catholic bias in the last 10 years?
 
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buffalo:
If you have read it then you refuse to believe the authors claim. This might be a great poll question.

Have you or someone you know been the victim of anti-Catholic bias in the last 10 years?
When we’re talking about authors and hypotheses about bias, I don’t think its so much a ‘rejection’ of the claim…its simply that I don’t see bias inherent in this society like many people do.

I certainly don’t see this ‘anti catholic’ bias that so many people seem to think is sooooo prevalent as to impact the work of the church.

I think there is a bias in many places against using religion as a blunt weapon…those are the people who usually end up feeling they are becoming the victims of ‘bias’.

But bias is not the reason that the moral authority of the church is being impacted. The reality is that our bishops are shepherds, but instead of shepherds who use their rule to keep us in the sheepfold, they are supposed to lead us out of that fold to a more abundant and liberating life.

Now I ask you…are the bishops able to do this when they can’t follow their own rules? Probably not

Are bishops able to increase our love of God when they make no statements about the important issues of the day other than abortion? Tough nut to crack

Can the bishops lead us to fill the pews of our churches til they burst when they spend decades haggling over text translations?

This isn’t an issue of bias…its an issue of much deeper systemic problems. It’s the negative side of ‘clericalism’, which is not a bad word, but taken to the heights we’ve seen lately can be a bad thing.

I fail to see how it matters whether or not the media reports on anyone else’s dirty laundry. We have problems, they’ve been exposed, and we need to correct those horrendous breaches of trust before we waste time and energy correcting things that need little correction
 
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frommi:
When we’re talking about authors and hypotheses about bias, I don’t think its so much a ‘rejection’ of the claim…its simply that I don’t see bias inherent in this society like many people do.

I certainly don’t see this ‘anti catholic’ bias that so many people seem to think is sooooo prevalent as to impact the work of the church.

I think there is a bias in many places against using religion as a blunt weapon…those are the people who usually end up feeling they are becoming the victims of ‘bias’.

But bias is not the reason that the moral authority of the church is being impacted. The reality is that our bishops are shepherds, but instead of shepherds who use their rule to keep us in the sheepfold, they are supposed to lead us out of that fold to a more abundant and liberating life.

Now I ask you…are the bishops able to do this when they can’t follow their own rules? Probably not

Are bishops able to increase our love of God when they make no statements about the important issues of the day other than abortion? Tough nut to crack

Can the bishops lead us to fill the pews of our churches til they burst when they spend decades haggling over text translations?

This isn’t an issue of bias…its an issue of much deeper systemic problems. It’s the negative side of ‘clericalism’, which is not a bad word, but taken to the heights we’ve seen lately can be a bad thing.

I fail to see how it matters whether or not the media reports on anyone else’s dirty laundry. We have problems, they’ve been exposed, and we need to correct those horrendous breaches of trust before we waste time and energy correcting things that need little correction
Since the dawn of Catholicism there have been scandals, since the Church is a hospital for sinners.

The Holy Spirit leads the Church and men fail to live up to the proposition. It will never be free from failure, since men are imperfect.
 
There is virtually nothing in this thread that I don’t agree with at least to a degree. Amazing!! 🙂
  1. The Trib author is correct. We feel let down and when we keep having to face continued failure on the priest abuse scandal, it detracts from “moral authority” (human nature as opposed to trusting in the Holy Spirit). At the same time, we have to remember that the ultimate authority with whom the Church speaks is Christ.
  2. Strider is right. It isn’t fair that the media seems to focus on the priest scandal. In my diocese, we haven’t had a single priest instance of abuse in over 30 years. But just in this last year, there have been other ministers arrested, teachers arrested, coach’s arrested and family members arrested for these acts.
  3. Buffalo is right that the sins of the laity have diminished our “moral authority” to be sanctimonious in the face of this scandal. As heinous as these acts of abuse by these relatively few Priest are (and our fury is understandable), it pales in quantity and gravity to our tolerance of the abortion tragedy.
  4. Frommi is right that we claiming victimization that the Church is being chastised for its handling of this issue. We are the to be Christ’s visible Hand in this world. We (the heirarchy and the laity) have failed Christ and deserve to be admonished.
  5. Buffalo is again right when he says there is anti-Catholic bias. He asked the (rhetorical and literal) question if anyone can’t attest to having been a victim in the last 10 years. Heck, I’ve been impacted in the last week. We are Christ’s visible Hand in this world. For us to expect that the Enemy is not going to use every trick in the book to discredit us is folly.
  6. Chicago raises the point that this may have been a blessing in disguise. This is the only place where I have a disagreement. There is no blessing if this causes us to dismiss or be less respectful of the Bishop’s and their Christ-ordained authority as the principal Teachers of the flock. But there may be a blessing.
As laity, we have a fuller grasp that we too are the Church. Our sins (even private sins) damage the Body of Christ. We can’t claim to be passive participants in God’s plan for this world. I still ask the question: Where were the lay leaders (esp. the Parish Pastoral Councils) when the rumblings about these Priests were deafening and nothing was done? We can’t just blame the Bishops. And, our “tolerance” of our own sins like abortion impacts our moral authority. We better understand that we need to get the planks out of our own eyes.

As Bishops (and Priests), they have a fuller grasp of their responsibility to the faithful and their obligations to the Bride of Christ. I’m sure they will be more reticent to just “tolerate” or push under the rug sins that need to be addressed. I think we are seeing it as the Bishop’s become more assertive on isolated examples of heterodox teachings getting an implied imprimatur by a lack of admonishment from the Church.

P.S. I understand where Frommi is coming from regarding if the only thing we stand for is opposed to abortion. We need to make sure this discussion is always discussed in light of the Great Teachings (love God and love one another) to make sure we don’t lose credibility. But in this context, consider this analogy:

A new Priest gave every sermon about Love such that after a year, a parishioner confronted him and said “Father, you know there are other subjects you can talk about.” The Priest replied, “I’ll move on when you get the first lesson right.”

My former Bishop always stressed that abortion was about more than just the life of the unborn being killed. He has every confidence in God and His Mercy regarding this baby. He says that for all of us it speaks to our failure to understand God’s command to us to Love one another, feed the hungry, defend the defenseless, and to sacrifice our will and welfare for the will of God and the welfare of others.
 
👍

So what should the laity do? Sit back and wait?

No. I submit we get off our duffs, learn our Catechism, fight for what is right and teach why. The devil exploits our complacency.

Give the Bishops strength to speak out by supporting them when they do. Letters of affirmation are very helpful.
 
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buffalo:
Since the dawn of Catholicism there have been scandals, since the Church is a hospital for sinners.

The Holy Spirit leads the Church and men fail to live up to the proposition. It will never be free from failure, since men are imperfect.
Of course we’re imperfect…but there’s a difference between imperfection and indifference
 
So what should the laity do? Sit back and wait?

No. I submit we get off our duffs, learn our Catechism, fight for what is right and teach why. The devil exploits our complacency.

Give the Bishops strength to speak out by supporting them when they do. Letters of affirmation are very helpful.
[/quote]

that’s great except when people have misguided perceptions of what bishops are doing and speak ill of them when they have no business doing so.
 
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frommi:
that’s great except when people have misguided perceptions of what bishops are doing and speak ill of them when they have no business doing so.
That’s why it’s so imprtant to know your faith. You will know them by their fruits.
 
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buffalo:
That’s why it’s so imprtant to know your faith. You will know them by their fruits.
I think the problem is that you and I would disagree about who the good bishops in this country are and have been.
 
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