Absolute truth and christianity

[ilovekittens]

Christian/Catholic theology accepts fully the notion that an Absolute, Universal Truth exists, and the Church asserts that its own dogma - God came to our planet in the form of Jesus, Jesus redeems us, etc- represents the most important absolute truth. If that is the case, and if all humans have immortal, sacred souls and are created equal, then why has only a tiny percentage of humanity - mostly those humans originating in or influenced by Europe - been privy to this Absolute Christian Truth? What about the billions and billions of people alive in the world today who have not heard that Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, or who have not been given any compelling reason to believe? What about the billions of people in countless centuries past who knew absolutely nothing about Christ? Why was the Absolutely True Message not given to any of them? What about people of other religions who think they have been given the Absolutely True Message in their own religion, and whose commitment is every bit as strong as the most devout Catholic? Are they just plain wrong? Why would God allow that to even happen, if He only has one Truth?

 

[AlphaOmega]

Christian/Catholic theology accepts fully the notion that an Absolute, Universal Truth exists, and the Church asserts that its own dogma - God came to our planet in the form of Jesus, Jesus redeems us, etc- represents the most important absolute truth. If that is the case, and if all humans have immortal, sacred souls and are created equal, then why has only a tiny percentage of humanity - mostly those humans originating in or influenced by Europe - been privy to this Absolute Christian Truth? What about the billions and billions of people alive in the world today who have not heard that Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, or who have not been given any compelling reason to believe? What about the billions of people in countless centuries past who knew absolutely nothing about Christ? Why was the Absolutely True Message not given to any of them? What about people of other religions who think they have been given the Absolutely True Message in their own religion, and whose commitment is every bit as strong as the most devout Catholic? Are they just plain wrong? Why would God allow that to even happen, if He only has one Truth?

All souls were created equal, but NOT all souls are equally loved. This explains the reality of why a portion of souls is so graced to come to know divine revelation. Why others have not had the fortunate gift of faith… Whether or not the person has had testimony of Christian faith, God gives sufficient grace to ALL, be they Muslim, Buddhist, or atheist. There is absolutely no excuse from salvation. Each soul must recognize God and be reconciled to Him. The problem is the majority of humanity will ultimately reject Him through their own free-will and sins.

There is ONLY ONE true Religion. That is the Catholic Faith, outside of which there is no salvation, outside of the faith there can be no other means. God is ONE truth, therefore, His Revelation is ONE, and which is found in the Catholic Church.

 

[BlaineTog]

Christian/Catholic theology accepts fully the notion that an Absolute, Universal Truth exists, and the Church asserts that its own dogma - God came to our planet in the form of Jesus, Jesus redeems us, etc- represents the most important absolute truth. If that is the case, and if all humans have immortal, sacred souls and are created equal, then why has only a tiny percentage of humanity - mostly those humans originating in or influenced by Europe - been privy to this Absolute Christian Truth? What about the billions and billions of people alive in the world today who have not heard that Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, or who have not been given any compelling reason to believe? What about the billions of people in countless centuries past who knew absolutely nothing about Christ? Why was the Absolutely True Message not given to any of them? What about people of other religions who think they have been given the Absolutely True Message in their own religion, and whose commitment is every bit as strong as the most devout Catholic? Are they just plain wrong? Why would God allow that to even happen, if He only has one Truth?

Whoa, I’m being buried under the avalanche of questions.

If God wanted to reveal himself through a historical religion, he would necessarily have to choose points in history through which to reveal himself. Had he chosen a point too early, the intercessions wouldn’t be remembered; after all, Adam and Eve had great knowledge of him, but apparently the great game of telephone from them down wasn’t enough to keep all of humanity on the same track. Also, as part of this historical religion, God wanted to show how he cares for us, so he chose one people and was obsessively faithful to them, so that we would know how he works. And Jesus’ death and resurrection had to actually happen, and it only had to happen once, so he stuck that in there when his people were ready for it. Then they started preaching.

It isn’t a matter of whether God loves one person more than another (which is absurd: since God loves infinitely, he loves all equally) but a simple matter of logistics. God has revealed himself to everyone through conscience (despite what subjectivists like to say, there is a core code of behavior which runs through virtually every society in the world, even if most societies tend to get a few things wrong). And I’d like to go on, but I’m out of time.

 

[ilovekittens]

All souls were created equal, but NOT all souls are equally loved. This explains the reality of why a portion of souls is so graced to come to know divine revelation. Why others have not had the fortunate gift of faith… Whether or not the person has had testimony of Christian faith, God gives sufficient grace to ALL, be they Muslim, Buddhist, or atheist. There is absolutely no excuse from salvation. Each soul must recognize God and be reconciled to Him. The problem is the majority of humanity will ultimately reject Him through their own free-will and sins.

There is ONLY ONE true Religion. That is the Catholic Faith, outside of which there is no salvation, outside of the faith there can be no other means. God is ONE truth, therefore, His Revelation is ONE, and which is found in the Catholic Church.

Two things here:

1. Not all souls are equally loved by God? That is news to me. I thought He was all-loving. I can’t accept the idea that He picks and chooses whom he wants to save.
2. You contradict yourself here a little, by saying that grace and thus salvation are available to those who practice Islam, etc, then you say that the Catholic faith is the only true faith and only means to salvation. Which is it?

 

[ilovekittens]

Whoa, I’m being buried under the avalanche of questions.

If God wanted to reveal himself through a historical religion, he would necessarily have to choose points in history through which to reveal himself. Had he chosen a point too early, the intercessions wouldn’t be remembered; after all, Adam and Eve had great knowledge of him, but apparently the great game of telephone from them down wasn’t enough to keep all of humanity on the same track. Also, as part of this historical religion, God wanted to show how he cares for us, so he chose one people and was obsessively faithful to them, so that we would know how he works. And Jesus’ death and resurrection had to actually happen, and it only had to happen once, so he stuck that in there when his people were ready for it. Then they started preaching.

It isn’t a matter of whether God loves one person more than another (which is absurd: since God loves infinitely, he loves all equally) but a simple matter of logistics. God has revealed himself to everyone through conscience (despite what subjectivists like to say, there is a core code of behavior which runs through virtually every society in the world, even if most societies tend to get a few things wrong). And I’d like to go on, but I’m out of time.

Are you saying that everyone in the world now and in ages past is potentially a candidate for Heaven, if they just live their conscience? What then is the role of the few “chosen” Christians?

 

[mercygate]

Are you saying that everyone in the world now and in ages past is potentially a candidate for Heaven, if they just live their conscience? What then is the role of the few “chosen” Christians?

Actually, the number of Christians is not “few.” It is more than one-sixth of the entire world population.

The role of Christians in history is to spread the Gospel both by word and by deed.

 

[ilovekittens]

Actually, the number of Christians is not “few.” It is more than one-sixth of the entire world population.

The role of Christians in history is to spread the Gospel both by word and by deed.

But if Christianity contains the only Absolutely True Message, then 1/6 is a pretty low number, I think.

 

[mercygate]

But if Christianity contains the only Absolutely True Message, then 1/6 is a pretty low number, I think.

I am not sure why you would believe that to be true. If I were the only person on the planet who believed in Newton’s second law of thermodynamics, it would still be true.

 

[VociMike]

But if Christianity contains the only Absolutely True Message, then 1/6 is a pretty low number, I think.

Well it was lower at Pentecost, so the trend is encouraging.

 

[ilovekittens]

I am not sure why you would believe that to be true. If I were the only person on the planet who believed in Newton’s second law of thermodynamics, it would still be true.

The difference is that knowledge of thermodynamics has no impact on our eternal fate. Hearing, accepting, and believing the Absolute Truth of Christianity is required for salvation and eternal reward, right? For only a fraction of the current world’s population to have access to that Truth (and an even smaller fraction, if you look at the # of people who have ever lived on our planet), I think is very odd.

 

[mercygate]

The difference is that knowledge of thermodynamics has no impact on our eternal fate. Hearing, accepting, and believing the Absolute Truth of Christianity is required for salvation and eternal reward, right? For only a fraction of the current world’s population to have access to that Truth (and an even smaller fraction, if you look at the # of people who have ever lived on our planet), I think is very odd.

It is not true that only a limited number “have access.”

The Gospel is preached across the globe via mission efforts, and even via radio in hundreds – literally hundreds – of languages. And it is the commission of the Church to preach the Gospel “to all nations.” This is why we have missionaries. Since the Commission was given by Christ in his own words to be carried out “to the end of the age,” the task is never done.

 

[Ahimsa]

Christian/Catholic theology accepts fully the notion that an Absolute, Universal Truth exists, and the Church asserts that its own dogma - God came to our planet in the form of Jesus, Jesus redeems us, etc- represents the most important absolute truth. If that is the case, and if all humans have immortal, sacred souls and are created equal, then why has only a tiny percentage of humanity - mostly those humans originating in or influenced by Europe - been privy to this Absolute Christian Truth? What about the billions and billions of people alive in the world today who have not heard that Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, or who have not been given any compelling reason to believe? What about the billions of people in countless centuries past who knew absolutely nothing about Christ? Why was the Absolutely True Message not given to any of them? What about people of other religions who think they have been given the Absolutely True Message in their own religion, and whose commitment is every bit as strong as the most devout Catholic? Are they just plain wrong? Why would God allow that to even happen, if He only has one Truth?

The Absolute Truth has always and absolutely been given to each and every single person, animal, plant, rock, and atom. (See St. Paul.) The problem, though, is that we humans often forget and dismiss this Truth, preferring to slumber instead of awaken. Christ came to wake us up, and he uses many, many different methods, both “Christian” and “non-Christian”.

 

[ilovekittens]

The Absolute Truth has always and absolutely been given to each and every single person, animal, plant, rock, and atom. (See St. Paul.) The problem, though, is that we humans often forget and dismiss this Truth, preferring to slumber instead of awaken. Christ came to wake us up, and he uses many, many different methods, both “Christian” and “non-Christian”.

So, are you saying that non-Christians, if “woken up” somehow, may be granted access to eternal bliss/heaven, if they don’t accept Christ specifically?

 

[Ahimsa]

So, are you saying that non-Christians, if “woken up” somehow, may be granted access to eternal bliss/heaven, if they don’t accept Christ specifically?

I would say that “waking up” is simply another name for “recognizing Christ”. If a non-Christian “wakes up” while he is alive on this earth, he then “recognizes Christ” – even if he doesn’t use the name “Christ”. He may remain a non-Christian.

However, he will eventually also realize (in this life or the next) that his awakening is indeed the same as what Christians called “Christ”.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Two things here:

1. Not all souls are equally loved by God? That is news to me. I thought He was all-loving. I can’t accept the idea that He picks and chooses whom he wants to save.
2. You contradict yourself here a little, by saying that grace and thus salvation are available to those who practice Islam, etc, then you say that the Catholic faith is the only true faith and only means to salvation. Which is it?

1. God is pure Love. He is not limiting Himself in any way by loving man.
2. No, grace is available to ALL. I never said anyone who practices Islam will be graced for it.

 

[BlaineTog]

Are you saying that everyone in the world now and in ages past is potentially a candidate for Heaven, if they just live their conscience?

Yes, potentially.

What then is the role of the few “chosen” Christians?

To help the world love more perfectly. To give them better odds. To spread the truth.

 

[MarcellusW]

I thought one had to follow more than their conscience to receive salvation while in “invincible ignorance” of the Church on earth. I thought they also have to follow natural law as well as follow their conscience.

 

[ilovekittens]

I would say that “waking up” is simply another name for “recognizing Christ”. If a non-Christian “wakes up” while he is alive on this earth, he then “recognizes Christ” – even if he doesn’t use the name “Christ”. He may remain a non-Christian.

However, he will eventually also realize (in this life or the next) that his awakening is indeed the same as what Christians called “Christ”.

So, a man living in India, worshipping one or more of the Hindu deities, would still enjoy our Christian heaven, if he was humble, kind to his neighbors, etc? What about a man living in the jungle of New Guinea, who happens to take part in intertribal war and cannibalism since it is part of his tribe’s culture - can he get to heaven too?

 

[ilovekittens]

It is not true that only a limited number “have access.”

The Gospel is preached across the globe via mission efforts, and even via radio in hundreds – literally hundreds – of languages. And it is the commission of the Church to preach the Gospel “to all nations.” This is why we have missionaries. Since the Commission was given by Christ in his own words to be carried out “to the end of the age,” the task is never done.

By “have access,” I mean “have a compelling reason to believe.” One can hear all kinds of stuff on the radio but have no reason to accept it. My compelling reason to believe in the Catholic faith is the fact that I was born into the religion, and its tenets have shaped my outlook on the world and given me some sense of meaning. If I was not born into the faith, though, but born into Judaism or Islam or complacent agnosticism, I would very likely not accept Christianity as the One Absolute Truth, and I don’t think I could be held at fault. Some here imply it wouldn’t matter, as long as I live a good life; what then is the purpose of Christ coming into the world?

 

[mercygate]

By “have access,” I mean “have a compelling reason to believe.” One can hear all kinds of stuff on the radio but have no reason to accept it. My compelling reason to believe in the Catholic faith is the fact that I was born into the religion, and its tenets have shaped my outlook on the world and given me some sense of meaning. If I was not born into the faith, though, but born into Judaism or Islam or complacent agnosticism, I would very likely not accept Christianity as the One Absolute Truth, and I don’t think I could be held at fault. Some here imply it wouldn’t matter, as long as I live a good life; what then is the purpose of Christ coming into the world?

When Christians speak of the possibility of salvation for those who live according to conscience, we mean a conscience conformed to natural law. So, for us, a Hottentot in the jungle would not only have to follow his conscience but that conscience would have to be formed by his response to the natural law as written on the face of the created world. Since killng poeple and eating them for supper would be antithetical to the universal law written on the human heart, our Hottentot friend would have to be counter-cultural. Conscience is NOT merely “what my culture teaches me” nor is it "what ***I ***FEEL is right and wrong.

Conscience is a profound, objective, contemplative response to Truth.

I would recommend that you read a very good little book (written for high schoolers but an EXCELLENT introduction to the concept of natural law and conscience) called Where Did I Come from? Where Am I Going? How Do I Get There?: Straight Answers for Young Catholics by Charles E. Rice.