Absolute truth and christianity

[Ahimsa]

So, a man living in India, worshipping one or more of the Hindu deities, would still enjoy our Christian heaven, if he was humble, kind to his neighbors, etc?

That would be possible

What about a man living in the jungle of New Guinea, who happens to take part in intertribal war and cannibalism since it is part of his tribe’s culture - can he get to heaven too?

Possibly, but he might have to spend some time in “purgatory”.

 

[Ahimsa]

By “have access,” I mean “have a compelling reason to believe.” One can hear all kinds of stuff on the radio but have no reason to accept it. My compelling reason to believe in the Catholic faith is the fact that I was born into the religion, and its tenets have shaped my outlook on the world and given me some sense of meaning. If I was not born into the faith, though, but born into Judaism or Islam or complacent agnosticism, I would very likely not accept Christianity as the One Absolute Truth, and I don’t think I could be held at fault. Some here imply it wouldn’t matter, as long as I live a good life; what then is the purpose of Christ coming into the world?

One might also ask: what is the purpose of Abraham, or Muhammad, or Buddha, coming into the world?

One response would be: someone who finds the Buddha’s teaching convincing, might not find Muhammad’s teaching convincing. So the reason Buddha came into the world, was to lead to salvation those whom he was destined to lead. Likewise, Christ came into the world to find those who are his. I believe Christ said something about having sheep, and the sheep knowing who the shepherd is.

All of us are, in a sense, sheep. Our shepherds might be different, though, but the shepherds and the sheep have a relationship forged from the beginning of time.

 

[ilovekittens]

One might also ask: what is the purpose of Abraham, or Muhammad, or Buddha, coming into the world?

One response would be: someone who finds the Buddha’s teaching convincing, might not find Muhammad’s teaching convincing. So the reason Buddha came into the world, was to lead to salvation those whom he was destined to lead. Likewise, Christ came into the world to find those who are his. I believe Christ said something about having sheep, and the sheep knowing who the shepherd is.

All of us are, in a sense, sheep. Our shepherds might be different, though, but the shepherds and the sheep have a relationship forged from the beginning of time.

This sort of outlook denies the “absolute truth” claim of Christianity. If God was made incarnate only once as Christ, then only Christianity can be the one true faith. All these other religions must be made up. If one can reach eternal reward by following Muhammad or the Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then the Incarnation had no point.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

But if Christianity contains the only Absolutely True Message, then 1/6 is a pretty low number, I think.

We let God sort this out. Our job is to preach the Gospel. That is our responsibility. God’s responsibility is the save the people. Who, how, and when are his business. We are responsible to do what we are told.

CDL.

 

[Jon_S]

This sort of outlook denies the “absolute truth” claim of Christianity. If God was made incarnate only once as Christ, then only Christianity can be the one true faith. All these other religions must be made up. If one can reach eternal reward by following Muhammad or the Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then the Incarnation had no point.

Christianity is the one true faith. That does not mean that other religions do not posses elements of the truth. This concept is entirely scriptural:

Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

 

[ilovekittens]

When Christians speak of the possibility of salvation for those who live according to conscience, we mean a conscience conformed to natural law. So, for us, a Hottentot in the jungle would not only have to follow his conscience but that conscience would have to be formed by his response to the natural law as written on the face of the created world. Since killng poeple and eating them for supper would be antithetical to the universal law written on the human heart, our Hottentot friend would have to be counter-cultural. Conscience is NOT merely “what my culture teaches me” nor is it "what ***I ***FEEL is right and wrong.

Conscience is a profound, objective, contemplative response to Truth.

I would recommend that you read a very good little book (written for high schoolers but an EXCELLENT introduction to the concept of natural law and conscience) called Where Did I Come from? Where Am I Going? How Do I Get There?: Straight Answers for Young Catholics by Charles E. Rice.

This is getting a little off topic, but I don’t see how a tribesman in the deepest jungle of New Guinea, whose worldview only contains what he has experienced in his village, can be held at all responsible by God or anyone for actions like ritual warfare or cannibalism, if that is the norm of his society. If Christian missionaries or works of the Enlightenment have never reached his tiny village, then he would have no way to know that a decree against cannibalism was “written on his heart.” All he would know is that sometimes tribes fight wars and the losers get eaten, and that is how life is.

 

[ilovekittens]

We let God sort this out. Our job is to preach the Gospel. That is our responsibility. God’s responsibility is the save the people. Who, how, and when are his business. We are responsible to do what we are told.

CDL.

But aren’t we allowed to wonder about these things?

 

[Jon_S]

By “have access,” I mean “have a compelling reason to believe.” One can hear all kinds of stuff on the radio but have no reason to accept it. My compelling reason to believe in the Catholic faith is the fact that I was born into the religion, and its tenets have shaped my outlook on the world and given me some sense of meaning. If I was not born into the faith, though, but born into Judaism or Islam or complacent agnosticism, I would very likely not accept Christianity as the One Absolute Truth, and I don’t think I could be held at fault. Some here imply it wouldn’t matter, as long as I live a good life; what then is the purpose of Christ coming into the world?

An analogy for you: Lets say someone on the other side of the world did something that affected you in some way. What if you did not know about the details, or what if you did not know about it at all, yet it still had an impact on you life whether you were aware of it or not? Would that mean that it never happened, if you were unaware of it?

Of course not!

Christ came into the world for you. The biggest trouble for you would be if you recognized this truth and still continued to avoid it.

 

[ilovekittens]

Christianity is the one true faith. That does not mean that other religions do not posses elements of the truth. This concept is entirely scriptural:

Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Then what does “true faith” really mean? If a Jew or Muslim lives a good life and can reach eternal reward, what would be gained by conversion to Christianity?

 

[ilovekittens]

An analogy for you: Lets say someone on the other side of the world did something that affected you in some way. What if you did not know about the details, or what if you did not know about it at all, yet it still had an impact on you life whether you were aware of it or not? Would that mean that it never happened, if you were unaware of it?
.

Yes, to me, that would mean it never happened, and I would have no reason to care at all.

 

[Jon_S]

This is getting a little off topic, but I don’t see how a tribesman in the deepest jungle of New Guinea, whose worldview only contains what he has experienced in his village, can be held at all responsible by God or anyone for actions like ritual warfare or cannibalism, if that is the norm of his society. If Christian missionaries or works of the Enlightenment have never reached his tiny village, then he would have no way to know that a decree against cannibalism was “written on his heart.” All he would know is that sometimes tribes fight wars and the losers get eaten, and that is how life is.

The fact that an entire tribe eats it’s enemies does not mean that cannibalism is not contrary to God’s will. Whole tribes of people denied what God instructed them in the Old Testament. They even did this in the New Testament. That is why St. Paul was so busy writing letters to the Corinthians and what not.

Our place is not to judge. We leave that up to God. Even St. Paul does not claim salvation for himself. (1 Cor. 4)

With the gift of free will comes the possibility of turning from God. There have been many times throughout history where people have denied God, yet He is always working to bring them back. It really is the theme of Scripture as a whole. God loves His creation.

 

[Jon_S]

Then what does “true faith” really mean? If a Jew or Muslim lives a good life and can reach eternal reward, what would be gained by conversion to Christianity?

If you had a map with the quickest way from point A to point B on it, would you throw it away to follow your own path and risk getting lost?

 

[Jon_S]

Yes, to me, that would mean it never happened, and I would have no reason to care at all.

I don’t mean to sound combative, but this response seems immature or at least not very well thought out. Whether or not you recognize (or even know) that something happened does not mean it did not happen.

 

[Jon_S]

I gotta go, homey! I hope you find what you’re looking for.

God bless!

-Jon

 

[aaronjmagnan]

If that is the case, and if all humans have immortal, sacred souls and are created equal, then why has only a tiny percentage of humanity - mostly those humans originating in or influenced by Europe - been privy to this Absolute Christian Truth?

Actually Christ came when Europe, the east, the Africans, and eventually in the Americas, when they were promised the Word to come through a blond conqueror. The conqueror ended up to be Cortez, who exploited them, etc(the will of cortez chose sin)…, but they received the word and the opportunity. Now the entire world has been exposed to it.

What about the billions and billions of people alive in the world today who have not heard that Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, or who have not been given any compelling reason to believe? What about the billions of people in countless centuries past who knew absolutely nothing about Christ? Why was the Absolutely True Message not given to any of them? What about people of other religions who think they have been given the Absolutely True Message in their own religion, and whose commitment is every bit as strong as the most devout Catholic? Are they just plain wrong? Why would God allow that to even happen, if He only has one Truth?

The absolute message, according to St. Paul is written on the hearts of men.

And yes, he gave it to all of them. The absolutely true message is Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again. Now you have it too.

I will pray for you,
Aaron Magnan

 

[mercygate]

This is getting a little off topic, but I don’t see how a tribesman in the deepest jungle of New Guinea, whose worldview only contains what he has experienced in his village, can be held at all responsible by God or anyone for actions like ritual warfare or cannibalism, if that is the norm of his society. If Christian missionaries or works of the Enlightenment have never reached his tiny village, then he would have no way to know that a decree against cannibalism was “written on his heart.” All he would know is that sometimes tribes fight wars and the losers get eaten, and that is how life is.

Your view of the God given character of the human person is too narrow. If we were expected to be limited by our culture, none of us could be Christians. The whole point of the “law written on the human heart” is that it transcends culture.

Have you looked into Where Did I Come from . . .?"

 

[BlaineTog]

Then what does “true faith” really mean? If a Jew or Muslim lives a good life and can reach eternal reward, what would be gained by conversion to Christianity?

A better chance at reaching said eternal reward (if you know where you’re going instead of just having a vague feeling, you’re more likely to get there), a better ability to glorify God, and a better ability to help others reach the eternal reward and to glorify God.

 

[ilovekittens]

A better chance at reaching said eternal reward (if you know where you’re going instead of just having a vague feeling, you’re more likely to get there), a better ability to glorify God, and a better ability to help others reach the eternal reward and to glorify God.

Then this gets back to my original question. If Christianity is the one true faith, and the best means of reaching eternal bliss, why was God so stingy in allowing access to its truths and teachings? Again, the majority of humans who have ever lived on our planet never heard of Christ or Christianity. The majority of humans alive now have either not heard of Christ or have never been given a compelling reason to accept the faith, through no fault of their own.

 

[ilovekittens]

Your view of the God given character of the human person is too narrow. If we were expected to be limited by our culture, none of us could be Christians. The whole point of the “law written on the human heart” is that it transcends culture.

Have you looked into Where Did I Come from . . .?"

None of us could be Christians if it wasn’t available within our culture. No one would acknowledge a “law written on our hearts” if it wasn’t recognized within our culture.

 

[BlaineTog]

Then this gets back to my original question. If Christianity is the one true faith, and the best means of reaching eternal bliss, why was God so stingy in allowing access to its truths and teachings?

Because this is how it had to be.