Absolute Truth

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Valke2

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Does it exist. If yes, do we know what it is? What are the criteria for determining absolute truth?

Since truth is “the real state of things” we have to first agree that reality is more than perception and opinion. If so, then there can be an absolute truth. BUt that doesn’t mean we can, since we preceive reality through different filters, agree on what that absolute truth is.

Proceeding from the belief that there are absolute standards that define reality, we basically have to believe that there is an ultimate authority for setting these standards. That authority is either God or Chance.
 
There is absolute truth. In all things that can be known.

Since Jesus came to reveal the truth of God to us and He would not teach lies then truth is available as it was taught to us.

Now if it became corrupted, then we could believe anything we want, as truth isn’t important enough for God to preserve it.

To seek absolute truth in religion you would have to look at religious bodies that state they possess absolute truth.
Then you can test them

In Christ
Scylla
 
So as I posted earlier, Yes and this is a couple ways how to find it.
One simple test is to ask if the particular belief system contains is absolutely true. If not you can dismiss it.

The second way after that is to see if it contradicts itself in its core beliefs. Does it have core beliefs and are they consistant.

There are more ways but you can start there which narrows your choices to a handful and if you examine them to just one.

In Christ
Scylla
 
I believe there is absolute truth, but no way for humans (limited in ability to observe, and understand) to ever know if they have it.

We will probably always only have partial understanding even of that which we can observe.

Sometimes, even the things we are sure we know, that hold up to testing and experience, further observation overturns!

What a great universe!

I’m sure glad we’re not in charge of it.

cheddar
 
So cheddar, are you absolutely sure you are not a woman on mars?

Is this absolutely true? 🙂

Scylla

Edit: hey I got a 1337 postcount! yay, oops not anymore.
 
I attended a half day retreat with Father Emory Tang this week. He defined Truth as Reality - What is. We may not know all of it; we may not accept what is available; but it is there whether we recognize it or not.
 
scylla said:
So cheddar, are you absolutely sure you are not a woman on mars?

Is this absolutely true? 🙂

Scylla

Edit: hey I got a 1337 postcount! yay, oops not anymore.
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My understanding of Absolute Truth, is that it is truth that does not change, such things as location are subject to change and would not fall under the catagory of Absolute Truth, even if they are, at a given point in time and space…true.

I didn’t think we were discussion all truth here, just the big stuff. Clearly, there are things we can"know" at some pretty basic levels.

cheddar
 
Valke2 said:
Does it exist. If yes, do we know what it is? What are the criteria for determining absolute truth?

Since truth is “the real state of things” we have to first agree that reality is more than perception and opinion. If so, then there can be an absolute truth. BUt that doesn’t mean we can, since we preceive reality through different filters, agree on what that absolute truth is.

Proceeding from the belief that there are absolute standards that define reality, we basically have to believe that there is an ultimate authority for setting these standards. That authority is either God or Chance.
Click to expand...
Working back from observation to inference, the human mind can determine by study of the created universe that it had a cause, and that behind all of the sequential causes that produced it, there is a creator. Truth – by definition as “what things really are” – is essential to his nature if we, ourselves, actually exist.

Truth is knowable because the cause of the universe also caused us, giving us an intellect which searches for knowledge. Therefore, the human mind can in some measure apprehend “what things really are” – i.e., can approach knowledge of the truth. Our knowledge may never be complete or “absolute” but we can have confidence that what we know bears more resemblance to absolute truth than it does to chaos or to indifference.
 
Valke2 said:
Does it exist. If yes, do we know what it is? What are the criteria for determining absolute truth?

Since truth is “the real state of things” we have to first agree that reality is more than perception and opinion. If so, then there can be an absolute truth. BUt that doesn’t mean we can, since we preceive reality through different filters, agree on what that absolute truth is.

Proceeding from the belief that there are absolute standards that define reality, we basically have to believe that there is an ultimate authority for setting these standards. That authority is either God or Chance.
Click to expand...
Everyone here who is a Christian knows what the truth is, maybe this question came up for those who don’t know, so why doesn’t someone just say it instead of beating around the bush, for we all know who is “The Truth, The Life and The Way”.
I don’t understand sometimes why we don’t call a spade a spade and go on with life.
 
mercygate said:
Working back from observation to inference, the human mind can determine by study of the created universe that it had a cause, and that behind all of the sequential causes that produced it, there is a creator. Truth – by definition as “what things really are” – is essential to his nature if we, ourselves, actually exist.

Truth is knowable because the cause of the universe also caused us, giving us an intellect which searches for knowledge. Therefore, the human mind can in some measure apprehend “what things really are” – i.e., can approach knowledge of the truth. Our knowledge may never be complete or “absolute” but we can have confidence that what we know bears more resemblance to absolute truth than it does to chaos or to indifference.
Click to expand...
You can’t, through reason, conclude with certainty that there is a creator. You can believe. YOu can assume that nothing that exists is self creating. But of course, if you believe in the Creator, then you believe is something that exsts that is self creating (God). So if you can believe God is self creating then why not believe that the universe was self creating?
 
Giovanni said:
Everyone here who is a Christian knows what the truth is, maybe this question came up for those who don’t know, so why doesn’t someone just say it instead of beating around the bush, for we all know who is "The Truth, The Life and The Way".
I don’t understand sometimes why we don’t call a spade a spade and go on with life.
Click to expand...
That’s not exactly an answer. To say Jesus is the absoulte truth isn’t really saying anything. Assuming he was, what we have before us are witness accounts of his life. Are all four gospels absolute truth? Can absolute truth differ from itself??
 
Valke2 said:
That’s not exactly an answer. To say Jesus is the absoulte truth isn’t really saying anything. Assuming he was, what we have before us are witness accounts of his life. Are all four gospels absolute truth? Can absolute truth differ from itself??
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Assuming you are not a Christian, the truth does not apply to you, unless you are truly searching for the truth, it is revealed to you and you accept it by the grace of God.
 
Giovanni said:
Assuming you are not a Christian, the truth does not apply to you, unless you are truly searching for the truth, it is revealed to you and you accept it by the grace of God.
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OTC, Truth applies to everyone; whether everyone accepts Truth is, of course, another question.
 
Valke2 said:
You can’t, through reason, conclude with certainty that there is a creator. You can believe. YOu can assume that nothing that exists is self creating. But of course, if you believe in the Creator, then you believe is something that exsts that is self creating (God). So if you can believe God is self creating then why not believe that the universe was self creating?
Click to expand...
To define God as “self-creating” is imprecise, since God always was, is and ever shall be. There is nothing of Him that began or needs expansion. The universe, otoh, cannot be self-creating as it required something to get it started in the first place.
 
FCEGM said:
OTC, Truth applies to everyone; whether everyone accepts Truth is, of course, another question.
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I understand, but the Truth is what the Truth is, I can live my life and make the Truth whatever I want it to be as long as it serves my wants and needs and yet live a lie, doomed forever in the process of making my own Truth.
 
So cheddar, if you answer the question honestly, you are absolutely sure that you are not a woman on mars, thats what I get from your answer.

I was not talking about the future, it was just a simple question that if honestly answered proves absolute truth exists. Of course in the the future we can change the status of objects but when talking about an absolute truth at a specific time that is a fact. Future events do not change facts unless they were not understood correctly in the first place.
Those are theories not facts.

Of course I will not know if you plan on going to Mars, and possibly are a woman or intend to be defined as one in the future.
But that doesn’t change the fact that exists at the moment of my question and your answer.

Absolute truth can be evidenced in small things like stating 1+1=2 and in big things such as stating that Jesus was born of the Blessed Mother. No one disputes these facts and these are absolute truths that we can conform our lives to.

I conform my life to the absolute truth that I cannot breathe water when I go to the beach, so I avoid doing that.

So what is the difference between a small truth and a large truth.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Valke2 said:
You can’t, through reason, conclude with certainty that there is a creator. You can believe. YOu can assume that nothing that exists is self creating. But of course, if you believe in the Creator, then you believe is something that exsts that is self creating (God). So if you can believe God is self creating then why not believe that the universe was self creating?
Click to expand...
Reason can propose with a high degree of certainty that creation was created by a creator. I am not sure I would agree with the idea of something that is self-creating; existence, in re would have to be uncreated. I think:hmmm:. It is a condition of the finite mind that while it can conceive that the absolute exists, it cannot know it with absolute intellectual certainty.

In this dialogue, I have not quite worked my way up to an idea of God; I’m still working on a creator and the idea of absolute truth. God, as we Jews and Christians know him, is a Person, who has revealed himself to us, and whom we accept by faith, albeit not without the assent of reason.
 
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