Absolutely losing it

[Bookcat]

A convert myself – I say – come on in --the water is fine (more than fine!!)

Contact Catholic Answers apologists – they can assist you

Praised be Jesus Christ --now and forever!

 

[Bookcat]

I have always been taught that the reason Jesus came was to bring us to God without our having to earn his love through works. I fell in love with this and would never want to give it up for anything (and I don’t see how anyone can live with any joy knowing that they could only go to heaven if they were good enough to merit it).

For a good understanding of what Paul taught regarding Faith and Works

Be sure to read them slowly --they are packed with insight (they are by Pope Benedict XVI)

In order (the second on begins after the first paragraph):

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html

---

an earlier one:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

 

[fbl9]

There was something else I have been wrestling with a lot. Do Catholics struggle a lot with wondering if they have ever done enough to earn God’s love? I have been reading Ignatius and it seems that he was immensely anxious about attaining to the resurrection, almost as if he was unsure if God loved him and he had to prove his worth by an act of Martyrdom. I have always been taught that the reason Jesus came was to bring us to God without our having to earn his love through works. I fell in love with this and would never want to give it up for anything (and I don’t see how anyone can live with any joy knowing that they could only go to heaven if they were good enough to merit it).

For a good understanding of what Paul taught regarding Faith and Works

Be sure to read them slowly --they are packed with insight (they are by Pope Benedict XVI)

In order (the second on begins after the first paragraph):

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html

---

an earlier one:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

Bdonoho: please read these links, Bookcat won’t steer you wrong.
Works are not done as a means of earning but growing in charity.

 

[Bdonoho]

Thank you… I really screwed up today. I committed a sin that drove away the spirit and I have been struggling with despair and unbelief all night.

 

[tijeras]

First - glad you are reaching out and trying to find answers. Good for you!

Second- aside from the religious aspect of this post, what struck me is your extreme negative thinking toward yourself. This may be a symptom of depression. I would highly recommend finding a therapist (who respects your Christian faith) and looking into cognitive behavioral therapy. CBT helps you stop yourself from entering into a downward spiral with persistent negative thoughts and brings you back to reality. For instance, if you constantly find yourself doubting that God could possibly love you, with CBT, you train yourself to remind yourself something like, “But God loves everyone. God made me. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

“Scrupulosity” seems to me like a religious form of Obsessive/Compulsive Disorder. This is an anxiety disorder. You seem, from your posts, to be very anxious about a number of things, particularly your own salvation. Anxiety is not a virtue. Often OCD appears with depression. Again, please seek help from a therapist who affirms your Christian faith.

Regarding assurance of salvation: here’s my take, which I believe is in line with Catholic teaching: even after we’ve “accepted Christ” we always retain free will. We can reject Him at any time, and in so doing, reject salvation. So not until we’ve died are we sure of what our lives will contain, that is, not until it’s done will we know if we’ve finished the race. So we must always pray for the grace to continue in our faith, even once it appears that we’re “solid”. It’s never too late to “be saved”, it’s never too late to fall from grace, until life is over.

Now, perhaps you may want to do something a little odd to see how Catholics actually regard trusting Christ for our salvation: attend a Catholic funeral. This is where the rubber hits the road and we come face to face with, “so where is Grandpa now?” Or at least, “did he at least make it to Purgatory?” We throw ourselves and our loved ones on the mercy of God, which is huge. We trust Him.

Purgatory is another topic entirely. I love Purgatory, it’s so much in line with the patient Father God, "Yes I know you love Me and you can come in, but let’s get you cleaned up first, and we respond, “thank you for perfecting me.”

One last thing about assurance: don’t worry so much about whether you get to go to Heaven, but just focus on loving God, loving yourself, and loving your neighbor. That’s enough for a day at a time. You’re not dead yet. Start living. Best to you sir.

 

[Bdonoho]

I really thank you all for your help. Reading Pope Benedict’s words on justification were particularly helpful in understanding that his view of faith, while not in perfect harmony with protestantism, does at least seem to reflect what the Bible appears to teach.

Yesterday I had what could only have been a deep experience of God’s grace, where I was able to believe the scriptures, trust in Christ, and do what I otherwise couldn’t. Unfortunately, I committed a sin by getting secure and haughty and thinking a blasphemous thought intentionally, almost toying with grace. Immediately all the charity I had left me immediately. I am trying not to despair, but I’m not sure how to get that grace back, as all my efforts at repentance seem to fall short and my ability to love God doesn’t seem to be there like it was earlier. Reading the Roman Catholic understanding of sanctifying grace and actual grace seems to explain my situation pretty concretely, but I still am afraid of pursuing Roman Catholicism because of other factors.

I am still bothered by a dream my friend Thia had where God told her to tell me not to research other religions and to stick with the church that I’m at. Thia is a simple woman, who isn’t capable of practicing guile, and her life has been filled with instances of the miraculous, so I listen when she tells me stuff like this. Still, I keep feeling the conviction that if I’ve lost grace, then the only way to get it back is through the means God has ordained. I’m also worried about denying the Gospel of Grace, and putting my trust in my own efforts to attain grace.

In the meantime I have found myself distracting myself and overindulging in youtube and other stuff, which isn’t sinful in and of itself, but I just can’t shake this conviction that I need to seek God’s grace. I’ve tried to make an act of perfect contrition but even after I think I’ve succeeded I still don’t ahve the spiritual ability to love God and others like I did yesterday. Before all of this the last thing I remember was a conviction that God was disciplining me and I needed to wait for his grace to appear. I am trying to do that but it’s hard not to occupy myself with pleasure (inordinate pleasure) while waiting.

Would any of you have guidance for me?

 

[wcknight]

Folks who have doubts about salvation with the Catholic Church, need to remember a few assurances.

One, Jesus promises us, anyone who eats His flesh or drinks His blood will have life everlasting. What does that mean ? simply that when we receive Holy Communion, and believe that it is indeed the transformed Body and Blood of Christ, our salvation is assured, we will have life everlasting.

Two, St.T John Vianny tells us, folks who always pray will most assuredly go to Heaven, whereas, folks who never pray will most probably go elsewhere.

So basically IF you receive communion regularly AND you pray every day, you should never have to worry about your salvation.

Folks who think Catholics have no chance to get to Heaven… well they are just complete idiots and need to look to their own salvation, because by condemning everyone in any faith just because they disagree with their own faith put themselves at risk.

Remember Jesus tells us judge not lest you be judged, and whatever measure you use to judge others, that will be use to judge you. That’s a pretty strong warning against just the type of thing that these protestant yahoos are doing.

Looking as this, few other faiths including many protestant denominations, do not believe that the Eucharist actually becomes the actual body and blood of Christ.

Anyone who suffers from constant guilt, a simple way to get around this is to just say a sincere act of contrition whenevr you think you have sinned seriously, and go to confession on a regular basis, say about once a month. anything more is probably excessive unless you really have a recurring problem. Then the priest will adcise you if more frequest confession would be helpful.

 

[Bdonoho]

Folks who have doubts about salvation with the Catholic Church, need to remember a few assurances.

One, Jesus promises us, anyone who eats His flesh or drinks His blood will have life everlasting. What does that mean ? simply that when we receive Holy Communion, and believe that it is indeed the transformed Body and Blood of Christ, our salvation is assured, we will have life everlasting.

Two, St.T John Vianny tells us, folks who always pray will most assuredly go to Heaven, whereas, folks who never pray will most probably go elsewhere.

So basically IF you receive communion regularly AND you pray every day, you should never have to worry about your salvation.

Folks who think Catholics have no chance to get to Heaven… well they are just complete idiots and need to look to their own salvation, because by condemning everyone in any faith just because they disagree with their own faith put themselves at risk.

Remember Jesus tells us judge not lest you be judged, and whatever measure you use to judge others, that will be use to judge you. That’s a pretty strong warning against just the type of thing that these protestant yahoos are doing.

Looking as this, few other faiths including many protestant denominations, do not believe that the Eucharist actually becomes the actual body and blood of Christ.

Anyone who suffers from constant guilt, a simple way to get around this is to just say a sincere act of contrition whenevr you think you have sinned seriously, and go to confession on a regular basis, say about once a month. anything more is probably excessive unless you really have a recurring problem. Then the priest will adcise you if more frequest confession would be helpful.

Thank you for this post. Since I’m not Catholic, I can’t avail myself of these things (I try to repent often, trusting in Christ’s work to save me and bring me into a right relationship with the father and to also enable me to live a life of love and gratitude)

I wanted to ask about something else that seemed to be an issue between Catholics and Protestants. When Jesus died on the cross, Catholics denied that he experienced the wrath of God on the Cross. My question is: if Jesus didn’t experience this, what was he so concerned about when he asked the Father to remove the cup from him? Is not the cup he’s referring to the cup of God’s wrath? If there were martyrs who went cheerfully to the flames, crucifixion and other diverse tortures, why was Jesus anxious about this if pain and death were the extent of what he suffered and not something far more profound?

 

[wcknight]

Thank you for this post. Since I’m not Catholic, I can’t avail myself of these things (I try to repent often, trusting in Christ’s work to save me and bring me into a right relationship with the father and to also enable me to live a life of love and gratitude)

I wanted to ask about something else that seemed to be an issue between Catholics and Protestants. When Jesus died on the cross, Catholics denied that he experienced the wrath of God on the Cross. My question is: if Jesus didn’t experience this, what was he so concerned about when he asked the Father to remove the cup from him? Is not the cup he’s referring to the cup of God’s wrath? If there were martyrs who went cheerfully to the flames, crucifixion and other diverse tortures, why was Jesus anxious about this if pain and death were the extent of what he suffered and not something far more profound?

I don’t know what the official Church interpretation of this verse means, but to me, when Jesus asked the Father to remove this cup, He was expressing His dread that He would have to suffer greatly. That IF there was any other way, to achieve our salvation, please let Him know about it. But Jesus knowing that there was no other way, submitted to the Father’s will and not His own dread of suffering.

This happened the night BEFORE His death during His agony in the garden, and unlike the martyrs, Jesus knew in advance, what He would have to go through. Many of the saints went through gruesome deaths, but I don’t know of many who went through as much suffering as our Lord, and none of them knew for certain how and what they would experience. AND I think knowing in advance makes it much tougher.

Look at it this way, even if you know you will be tortured, you do not know how that will feel until it actually happens, Jesus, being God did know in advance, so much so that He sweated blood. I think He was experiencing the torture long in advance of the actual event.

Remember Jesus was also fully human, so He certainly did not look forward to being tortured and killed.

 

[wcknight]

Thank you for this post. Since I’m not Catholic, I can’t avail myself of these things (I try to repent often, trusting in Christ’s work to save me and bring me into a right relationship with the father and to also enable me to live a life of love and gratitude)

I wanted to ask about something else that seemed to be an issue between Catholics and Protestants. When Jesus died on the cross, Catholics denied that he experienced the wrath of God on the Cross. My question is: if Jesus didn’t experience this, what was he so concerned about when he asked the Father to remove the cup from him? Is not the cup he’s referring to the cup of God’s wrath? If there were martyrs who went cheerfully to the flames, crucifixion and other diverse tortures, why was Jesus anxious about this if pain and death were the extent of what he suffered and not something far more profound?

There’s a simple solution to this… just convert.

 

[Aggies08]

I think you might enjoy amazon.com/The-Lambs-Supper-Heaven-Earth/dp/0385496591/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344878401&sr=8-1&keywords=the+lamb%27s+supper.

 

[Bdonoho]

There’s a simple solution to this… just convert.

I intend to do so ASAP. In the meantime, my scrupulosity is really bothering me in regards to mortal son and acts of contrition. The think the word “God D$$n” habitually. It started a month or 2 ago and everytime it happens I have to figure out if it’s willful or not. I got frustrated with doing an act of contrition several times because I wanted to be sure I was covered in case I DID commit a mortal sin. I’m starting to think it’s unhealthy to do that and to only attempt an act of contrition when my concsience explicitly condemns me of a high handed sin.

 

[walkwithhim54]

Hi Brent,

Here are some links about salvation and scrupulosity. I hope that they are a help to you.

Just a couple of things:

1. The only reason to become a Catholic is because you are convinced of the truths of the Catholic Church which was founded by Jesus Christ.
2. Joining the Catholic Church will not give you a guaranteed ticket to heaven – there is no magic about being a Catholic.

• catholic.com/magazine/articles/are-you-saved-if-only
Are you saved?
Tim Staples

• catholic.com/tracts/assurance-of-salvation
Assurance of salvation?

• From Fr Bartunek’s spiritual direction blog:
How do I know if I am scrupulous or just sensitive to sin?

                [rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/topical-series-and-resources-on-the-spiritual-](http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/topical-series-and-resources-on-the-spiritual-)          life/scrupulosity-understanding-and-overcoming

• Thoughts That Will Not Go Away
Scrupulosity and How to Overcome It
By Rev. Thomas M. Santa, CSSR
archive.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0012fea2.asp

All the best; I will keep you in my prayers.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. There is no automatic entrance into heaven by just being Roman Catholic. It takes hard work, prayer, and faith to get there. It requires strong effort, but it’s all worth it.

 

[Bdonoho]

I couldn’t have said it better myself. There is no automatic entrance into heaven by just being Roman Catholic. It takes hard work, prayer, and faith to get there. It requires strong effort, but it’s all worth it./

I know it’s worth it but isnt one of the main points of being catholic that you receive grace through the sacrament?

I have been trying to find rest from struggling on my own and I am seeking rest through the Catholic Church. Do any of you have rest for your souls or is it just a hamster wheel?

 

[Bdonoho]

Walkwithhim, what part of my last post indicated that I thought being Catholic would be a breeze? I have been seeking freedom from bondage and morbid introspection and thought that the sacraments would help me. I really hope that what you mean by there being no “magic” is something other than what I think you mean, because while I detest the occult, I was hoping that there would be actual grace in the sacraments instead of everything depending on me. I have been seeking to receive God’s grace on my own, always scrutinizing my repentance and faith to see if it’s enough or whether it’s God’s grace or just my own imagination. Sometimes, the cross is enough to sustain me, but when I commit mortal sin, I’m not able to trust in Christ alone. My hope was that the sacraments would help me to trust in Christ alone instead of in myself, and to find peace with God.

Trust me, if I wasn’t convicted about the historical evidence of the faith, I would not be doing this. Frankly, I have gotten more confusion and frustration by inquiring into Catholicism. Forgive me for saying this, but it feels as if you have a gospel only for the people in the church, but nothing at all for those who had the misfortune of not being raised Catholic. I just don’t get how nonchalantly people tell me to do an act of contrition when I am tormented by my sin, as if it’s just the easiest thing in the world.

 

[fbl9]

I intend to do so ASAP. In the meantime, my scrupulosity is really bothering me in regards to mortal son and acts of contrition. The think the word “God D$$n” habitually. It started a month or 2 ago and everytime it happens I have to figure out if it’s willful or not. I got frustrated with doing an act of contrition several times because I wanted to be sure I was covered in case I DID commit a mortal sin. I’m starting to think it’s unhealthy to do that and to only attempt an act of contrition when my concsience explicitly condemns me of a high handed sin.

God doesn’t damn rather He judges justly and not unfairly. Remember this phrase every time you think God D–n. Worked for me.

 

[justice99]

Firstly, do not engage yourself thinking or doubting d catholic church, God, moral and spiritual things FROM A “personal or carnal perspective.” First get a bible, in your free time, say a little prayer and study as much as you can (preferably from d new testament) pray again asking for grace to accept the teachings and have faith. (you must not understand every thing). If you intend to become a catholic, start attending daily masses at nearby catholic churchs, enrolle for RCIA. To keep idle doubts off your head, pick a verse from the bible and recite it and recite anytime you feel in doubt (I av some at hand but can’t rmber where they re taken frm).
Remember the Devil is the father of all lies and will always want us to believe things which are not true, so just trust in God, and keep off doubts. You don’t become a good christian by your own power ALONE, faith must be involved.

 

[Bdonoho]

Ok, I’m going to the forum group for scrupulousity, because judging from the last couple of responses it doesn’t seem as if you understand what I’m talking about. Im sorry for being mad, it’s just that I think I need to talk to someone who understands my situation.

 

[Dorothy]

walkwithhim54;9645953:

I couldn’t have said it better myself. There is no automatic entrance into heaven by just being Roman Catholic. It takes hard work, prayer, and faith to get there. It requires strong effort, but it’s all worth it./

I know it’s worth it but isnt one of the main points of being catholic that you receive grace through the sacrament?

I have been trying to find rest from struggling on my own and I am seeking rest through the Catholic Church. Do any of you have rest for your souls or is it just a hamster wheel?

Dear Bdonoho,

Please be assured that Jesus is our rest, and he does console us when we need it. He knows that we are dust. (to repeat a phrase of St. Therese of Lisieux).

He wants nothing more than our sanctification and salvation.
His yoke is easy and his burden is light, as we learn how to surrender to His will.

Perhaps you can ask a priest for advice after reading some of the sites that were suggested?

 

[fbl9]

Ok, I’m going to the forum group for scrupulousity, because judging from the last couple of responses it doesn’t seem as if you understand what I’m talking about. Im sorry for being mad, it’s just that I think I need to talk to someone who understands my situation.

it’s an involentary thought, not mortal because it was not willed by you.
As in my other post i shared with you how i rid myself of this involentary thought.